[Rebelwork]

Just trying to help the OP

This subject needs to wait on the OP

 

[John Smith_inFL]

Just trying to help the OP

This subject needs to wait on the OP

Good idea - - - - but, everyone has to stop spit-balling replies until the O/P returns.

 

[weepee]

Just trying to help the OP

This subject needs to wait on the OP

For why? Don’t believe me. He was getting confused with all the BS. Maybe he’ll come back

 

[robin danger]

Finally able to get back to this project after a busy week. I plugged in the saw and it powered up as expected. The on/off switch was completely disconnected at the time so everything was bypassed. I'm going to try to return the saw to factory wiring and I've got some questions, particularly with regards to the 24v transformer. Mine is labeled differently than the pictures I've seen of other saws, so hoping to get some confirmations of what goes where.

In the wiring diagram there is a connection from the 24v transformer (COM) to the contactor (at a shared connection with the wire from L1). Where is the COM on my transformer? Is it the top right "0" at H4?

In the wiring diagram the fuse is between X2 and X1 of the transformer. Mine is going from "-" to X1, however there is a little metal plate that appears to connect "-" and XF. Is that plate essentially bridging "-" and XF, meaning that either one of those connections will function the same?

In the wiring diagram there is a connection from the 24v transformer (X1) to the red block (1) which is the black wire that goes to the on/off switch. My saw is currently wired with XF going to 1. If I'm understanding the diagram correctly, one side of the fuse should go to "1" on the red block and the other side should go to the overload... is that right? And if so, what connection at the overload should it be going to?

I have more questions but I think getting clarity on the transformer will be a good place to start. Thanks!

 

[_Ogre]

Finally able to get back to this project after a busy week. I plugged in the saw and it powered up as expected. The on/off switch was completely disconnected at the time so everything was bypassed. I'm going to try to return the saw to factory wiring and I've got some questions, particularly with regards to the 24v transformer. Mine is labeled differently than the pictures I've seen of other saws, so hoping to get some confirmations of what goes where.

In the wiring diagram there is a connection from the 24v transformer (COM) to the contactor (at a shared connection with the wire from L1). Where is the COM on my transformer? Is it the top right "0" at H4?

In the wiring diagram the fuse is between X2 and X1 of the transformer. Mine is going from "-" to X1, however there is a little metal plate that appears to connect "-" and XF. Is that plate essentially bridging "-" and XF, meaning that either one of those connections will function the same?

In the wiring diagram there is a connection from the 24v transformer (X1) to the red block (1) which is the black wire that goes to the on/off switch. My saw is currently wired with XF going to 1. If I'm understanding the diagram correctly, one side of the fuse should go to "1" on the red block and the other side should go to the overload... is that right? And if so, what connection at the overload should it be going to?

yes the COM on your transformer is H4. you are correct that the diagram and transformer are not the same. on the wiring diagram the voltage goes up to 460, that would be a 3 phase 480 volt. connect yours to the H1 and H4, it's marked 0 volts which is not the case but you get the idea.

the picture of the transformer doesn't show the black wires very clearly going to the transformer. refer back to the wiring diagram. on the wiring diagram, follow the wire on H1 back to the contactor and you'll see it connects to L2 on the contactor. look for the same connected wire on the contactor and L1, that will be the COM H4 on the transformer. the connections don't match, you can remove the connection on H3 and move it too H4

where the diagram has X1 & X2; your transformer has XF (fuse), consider that wire to be X1. XF to red block 1 is correct. follow X2 on the diagram to the overload OL. (the heavy black lines are line voltage, black wires. the thin lines are control voltage, red wires) if the T1 overload trips it cuts all control voltage past OL. follow X2 up to the circled M, that is the motor starter coil, that when energized will close the contactor. keep following X2 to red block 3. follow red block 2 up to where the contact is, the contact is the switch on top that has COM (different com) & NO (normally open) will close when the coil M is energized.

switch operation: when the START button is pushed the X1, X2 circuit is complete between red block 1&3 and the coil M pulls in the contactor, at the same time closes the NO contact on red block 2, release the momentary START button and the NO contact on the contactor stays energized between red block 1&2. push the STOP button to deenergize the circuit red block 1&2

clear as mud? fyi, no googlefoo copy n paste used

 

[robin danger]

yes the COM on your transformer is H4. you are correct that the diagram and transformer are not the same. on the wiring diagram the voltage goes up to 460, that would be a 3 phase 480 volt. connect yours to the H1 and H4, it's marked 0 volts which is not the case but you get the idea.

Great, thanks for confirming. It's confusing to me with the labeling being different! I'm sure it's clear for people who know this stuff but I'm more comfortable double checking my assumptions!

the picture of the transformer doesn't show the black wires very clearly going to the transformer. refer back to the wiring diagram. on the wiring diagram, follow the wire on H1 back to the contactor and you'll see it connects to L2 on the contactor. look for the same connected wire on the contactor and L1, that will be the COM H4 on the transformer. the connections don't match, you can remove the connection on H3 and move it too H4

It was obscured in my first picture, but the wires going to H1 and H4 were reversed when I first started working on the saw. I have swapped them back per the wiring diagram so that L1 will match with COM (H4) and L2 will match with the line voltage (H1).

where the diagram has X1 & X2; your transformer has XF (fuse), consider that wire to be X1. XF to red block 1 is correct.

Ok, I have some questions on this step. In the wiring diagram the fuse is between X2 and X1. On my transformer, the dash "-" terminal and the XF terminals are bridged by a metal plate, so wouldn't that mean the the fuse needs to be between "-"/XF and X1? Or is the wavy line highlighted in pink signifying that the X2 and X1 terminals are connected?

follow X2 on the diagram to the overload OL. (the heavy black lines are line voltage, black wires. the thin lines are control voltage, red wires) if the T1 overload trips it cuts all control voltage past OL. follow X2 up to the circled M, that is the motor starter coil, that when energized will close the contactor. keep following X2 to red block 3. follow red block 2 up to where the contact is, the contact is the switch on top that has COM (different com) & NO (normally open) will close when the coil M is energized.

I think I've read this paragraph 10 times and it's starting to make sense! Bottom line, this seems to be correct with the connections at red block 2 and red block 3 as they currently are... right???

switch operation: when the START button is pushed the X1, X2 circuit is complete between red block 1&3 and the coil M pulls in the contactor, at the same time closes the NO contact on red block 2, release the momentary START button and the NO contact on the contactor stays energized between red block 1&2. push the STOP button to deenergize the circuit red block 1&2

clear as mud? fyi, no googlefoo copy n paste used

That actually is starting to make conceptual sense lol. Thank you for being patient with me, I'm learning a lot here!

 

[_Ogre]

Ok, I have some questions on this step. In the wiring diagram the fuse is between X2 and X1. On my transformer, the dash "-" terminal and the XF terminals are bridged by a metal plate, so wouldn't that mean the the fuse needs to be between "-"/XF and X1? Or is the wavy line highlighted in pink signifying that the X2 and X1 terminals are connected?
View attachment 457879

X1 & X2 are wired internally together to the 'pink' transformer windings inside. X1 is the right side of the fuse, then the fuse, then "-" is jumped over from the left side of the fuse to XF be able to attach the wire. it appears that you are wired correctly on the transformer

if you wired the motor to the starter and moved the red wire down on the switch as discussed early on in this thread, you should be able to check the function of the switch. you should be able to use a plastic or wood poker to depress the switches.

i'm always willing to help with the electrical stuff. it just bothers me when others who have no idea what they're talking about interject "solutions" that typically make no sense or are unsafe. nobody dies when the hot and cold water gets switched while plumbing the toilet.

 

[Rebelwork]

Reason I showed him a 34-802 correctly wired switch.,

 

[robin danger]

if you wired the motor to the starter and moved the red wire down on the switch as discussed early on in this thread, you should be able to check the function of the switch. you should be able to use a plastic or wood poker to depress the switches.

Whatever mechanism was supposed to be depressed on the original switch is completely missing. I know it's impossible to see in the picture, but there isn't anything in there to press. I stuck a poker in there just to be sure, and long story short I'll need a new switch to complete this project or even test out the wiring.

I saw the round buttons you suggested in post #31, I'm definitely keeping that in mind as a backup option. Lets say that I wanted to install a push button switch more similar to the original part, or a push button switch with a paddle, like either of these:

Amazon.com: Woodstock D4157 110/220 Volt Single Phase On/Off Switch : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Buy Woodstock D4157 110/220 Volt Single Phase On/Off Switch: Transfer Switches - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Woodstock D4151 110/220-Volt Paddle Switch : Automotive

Buy Woodstock D4151 110/220-Volt Paddle Switch: Multifunction - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Both are 3 HP 230v at 20amps, but I'm still not totally clear on how this should be wired up with the 3 wires coming from the red block. Would these switches even work without changing anything else on the saw, or would there be some modifications required downstream/upstream to get this to work?

 

[Steve Neul]

I haven't been following this thread. Your two lines of power coming in is all the saw needs to run. The rest is grounding and to operate the magnetic switch and run the saw on different voltages. A normal switch usually can't handle the amount of power to start and run a 3 hp motor so they incorporate a heavy duty switch in with the magnetic switch. It uses an electro magnet on 24 volts to turn the saw on and the stop just interrupts the circuit. I don't know whey they can't make magnetic switches more uniform, every company does them a little different. Ever consider calling customer support at Rockwell to straighten out what wires go where? Contact Us | Rockwell Automation

 

[_Ogre]

Either of those switches will work to turn on/off the motor. You'd basically gut your panel, toss everything and like Steve says, 2 wires in and 2 wires out to the switch. You'd lose the red block when you gut the panel. 2 hot wires from the power cord in to the switch and 2 hot wires from the switch to the motor. So the conduit to the switch will have 4 wires in it, 4 screws, 2 wires on top and 2 wires on bottom.

I bought a similar paddle switch for my bandsaw. You'll lose the overload function, but not much else. The paddle switch does take quite the effort and I find myself hitting it twice.

You could wire everything with #12 THHN, home depot sells it by the foot. All black if you don't get switched around

 

[woodnthings]

The contactor idea is overkill on a home shop saw in my opinion. if there's a power failure in the lines, and then it comes back on the saw will restart and possibly be unsafe?
if you eliminate the contactor as I did on one of my 240 volt saws, you must immediately shut it down in the event of a power outage.

Woodstock D4159 - 220V/240V Paddle Switch - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

A recessed ON button protects against accidental starting and a large OFF paddle ensures fast shut off every time. Rated for 220 volts and motors drawing up to 16 amps. Fits basic electrical boxes or can be surface mounted with two screws over a 7/8" wide x 1-7/8" tall cutout. Mounting screws...

www.grizzly.com

Seems like I suggested this back in post 14?

 

[robin danger]

I mistakenly thought there was a way to use the factory wiring with one of the new new paddle switches I had linked to. That is apparently incorrect. What I'm trying to do now is find a replacement for the "N.O./N.C Contact Block", which is turning out to be more of a challenge than anticipated.

Failing that, I'll consider some other style of momentary push button or bypass the wiring as has been discussed and install a new paddle switch.

 

[_Ogre]

You can install a simple toggle switch between the red and black wires to get the saw working. Aka red block 1&3.

 

[Steve Neul]

A toggle switch would be a lot simpler for you to wire in. The main mission of a magnetic switch is for industrial applications like if someone was operating a saw and tripped the breaker someone else wouldn't come along and be changing the blade while the operator was heading for the breaker box and have the saw come on unexpectedly. That situation isn't likely to happen in a home shop.