[Fried Chicken]

There are a couple of reasons not to, starting with the fact that they don't last quite as long as a standard blade. There's less metal or carbide there to absorb the impact of hitting the wood. It sounds as if you've already found one of the others: if you use a riving knife or have installed a splitter like one of the MicroJig add-ons, you'll need to swap that to a thin-kerf splitter to match the blade or your saw kerf will drag or stick on the full-width one. I suspect the thinner blade tends to flex a bit more and perhaps vibrate a bit more. I usually have a stabilizer on there, and have never noticed any real issues. The only thing I have noticed, and I've seen it with full-kerf blades as well, is that when trying to slice just a sliver off the end of a workpiece the blade can deflect a bit when it's not supported equally on both sides by the kerf. All that said, I use a thin-kerf blade at least 90 percent of the time, and nearly always when ripping. The lessened load on the motor is noticeably, and I'm too cheap; it pains my soul to see nice lumber turn into sawdust. If I had Jeff Bezos' money to buy a giant shop with a monster 10-hp table saw, and an unlimited budget for lumber, maybe I wouldn't care.
Generally speaking, I use my old belt-drive 10" Craftsman the way you describe, with the rather flimsy guard that came with it off. I use a MicroJig splitter in conjunction with a featherboard, I set the blade at the correct height for the material; just high enough for the gullets between the teeth to clear, and I watch where my fingers are in relation to the blade. I started with a radial arm saw, so that's pretty much second nature.

That's sort of spot-on with how I feel about lumber getting turned to powder.

I've heard from someone: you have to learn to not worry about it, and factor in 20% waste. With the amount of time I've squandered agonizing over saving the tiniest bits of lumber, I think he's right.

I've definitely noticed the lessened load with the thin kerf blade. Thinking back now, I'm pretty sure I ran a think kerf blade on my old table saw. I just bought a pretty expensive and overpriced riving knife for the BT3000 (a stainless steel one off eBay, but the guy didn't even debur the edges). Now I'm being cheap and stupid with regards to getting another one.

I might though. Decisions decisions.

 

[jgrickett51]

That's sort of spot-on with how I feel about lumber getting turned to powder.

I've heard from someone: you have to learn to not worry about it, and factor in 20% waste. With the amount of time I've squandered agonizing over saving the tiniest bits of lumber, I think he's right.

I've definitely noticed the lessened load with the thin kerf blade. Thinking back now, I'm pretty sure I ran a think kerf blade on my old table saw. I just bought a pretty expensive and overpriced riving knife for the BT3000 (a stainless steel one off eBay, but the guy didn't even debur the edges). Now I'm being cheap and stupid with regards to getting another one.

I might though. Decisions decisions.

True; we need to prioritize our worries. Part of my reluctance to dismiss the sawdust issue is probably because I'm a 4-hour round trip from the nearest place where I can find a good selection of wood. We do have one local hardwood shop, and they do their best, but in a town of 50,000, with a small storefront, they have to limit what they carry. Even Phoenix is a bit limited. I've been looking for seven years now for a reasonably close source of air-dried red cedar in lengths up to 16 feet, with no luck.

 

[Fried Chicken]

1-800-228-0000 - CS
According to their customer service rep, they are made in Germany (it says right in the title) with German quality steel and carbide, so I would expect some pretty high quality. They were not permitted to divulge the manufacturer. Their sand paper is also made in Germany and shipped here in bulk, then broken down here into user size pieces. Klingspor is a German company according to the CS rep.

I wonder if it might be Leitz << >>

 

[woodnthings]

That's the blade I was going to look for in my collection! It came with a new saw I bought so long ago I can't remember which one. LOL.
There's about 4 or 5 German blade manufacturers I found, but who know one which has the Woodriver account?

 

[woodnthings]

Here's a guy who tried expensive table saw blades, but came up with one that's cheaper and better. No Way!

 

[jgrickett51]

Most of what he says makes perfect sense. Whether it works in practice is another question, but it's an easy thing to check, and cheap, too. In fact, for me its free. I have a fair assortment of decent quality 7-1/4" blades that I use when I want a nice cut with my hand saws, plus a couple of good 8" blades for my old DeWalt MB, and it's no trouble to swap one one of those in and try it.
The only downside I can see, other than the lesser maximum depth of cut, is something he mentioned as a safety factor, the lower rim speed of the smaller blade. I'm a bit skeptical about the safety anyway; I doubt I'd notice the difference between being hit with a kickback at 180 mph and one at 200+. For that matter, I doubt the rim speed translates exactly to kickback speed, and I work very hard not to be in the way of one anyway. If I was going to use the smaller blades exclusively, it would be an easy and cheap modification on my saw to swap the drive pulley for a slightly larger one to get the rim speed up to where it belongs.

 

[ibewjwjon176]

The negative hook blades are for radial arm saws. Definitely a lot safer. I use my ras for crosscuts on long lumber. I only use full kerf blades, the 1/32 " thinner blade definitely doesn't cut as straight, and if I need to worry about saving 1/32" inch of wood, I am in the wrong hobby. I just keep the blades sharp. I send them to ridge carbide, now in Kansas. I too have several Forrest and ridge blades, all bought used for great prices.

 

[woodnthings]

if I need to worry about saving 1/32" inch of wood, I am in the wrong hobby.

If you are crosscutting with a RAS, then a kerf of 1/32" difference is negligible.
I crosscut with my Craftsman 12" RAS running a 10" Diablo 60 tooth blade, no issues.
To each their own I suppose, what works for me doesn't work for thee.

 

[ibewjwjon176]

If you are crosscutting with a RAS, then a kerf of 1/32" difference is negligible.
I crosscut with my Craftsman 12" RAS running a 10" Diablo 60 tooth blade, no issues.
To each their own I suppose, what works for me doesn't work for thee.

I also only run full kerf in my old DeWalt dw746. table saw. No problem if the blades are sharp and you don't feed the rips like a madman.

 

[jgrickett51]

The negative hook blades are for radial arm saws. Definitely a lot safer. I use my ras for crosscuts on long lumber. I only use full kerf blades, the 1/32 " thinner blade definitely doesn't cut as straight, and if I need to worry about saving 1/32" inch of wood, I am in the wrong hobby. I just keep the blades sharp. I send them to ridge carbide, now in Kansas. I too have several Forrest and ridge blades, all bought used for great prices.

I don't worry about waste when crosscutting, and I don't bother with a thin kerf blade on my compound miter saw, which is what I mostly use for simple crosscuts. My RAS's are smaller, a Delta 990 and a DeWalt MB, and I use them more for longer angled cuts, plus occasionally some of the weird cuts from the Mr. Sawdust book. Both of those are, by modern standards, a bit underpowered. I started with one of the Craftsman (Emerson) 10", and that one was definitely a bit underpowered for a 10" blade. The TK blades made a definite difference on that one.

 

[woodnthings]

Maybe it was "dumb luck"? but my first Craftsman RAS was a 10" off the bulletin board at work for $40.00.
I knew nothing about them at that time 40 years ago. I liked it well enough to crosscut framing lumber using a table saw blade.
When I was build my garage I set it up outdoors with a 16 ft long fence and ripped plywood fully supported, no issues.
Somewhere along the line I acquired the 12" model, running a dual voltage motor and that had more power.
Back then I was already running my two direct drive 12" Craftsman table saws with the 240 only motors. The motors looked an awful lot alike!
They were made by Emerson Electric a major supplier of Craftsman machines. Now days, I own 2 - 12" RAS and 1 - 10" RAS.
I also discovered that you could take the entire carriage and motor off the 10" arm and slide in onto the 12" arm, the rails were the same distance apart! Now I have a "modular" system with interchangeable carriages with different blades, or a dado stack set up. Plug and play or unplug and saw.
I made one carriage into an overarm router:

A Porter Cable 690 router is clamped into a precision holder:

 

[jgrickett51]

Wait so the 24T glue line rip blade allowed you to skip the jointer? Is that why it's called that "glue line rip"? And what makes it able to do so? I was under the impression this wasn't possible: you always needed to follow up with a jointer, or use a flush trim bit on a router or something.

What does a negative hook blade do? What was that difference?

I'm genuinely not knowledgeable on this; despite the snark in my initial post, I am fishing for information and ideas. Also wondering if the really premium blades are worth it.

If you keep your saw in good trim, with a good sharp blade running precisely parallel to the miter slots, and the fence aligned likewise, most saws will give you an edge that doesn't require jointing. Any misalignment and you'll start getting tooth marks on the edge because the blade is heeling slightly ("heeling" means running at a slight angle to the path of the kerf) and your glue-up will look like rubbish. Vibration in the saw or run-out (wobbling) can have a similar effect, except less consistently. "Glue line rip" blades cost a bit more because the manufacturer makes them to a bit tighter tolerances, no measurable run-out in the disk, carbide teeth aligned precisely, better balancing of the blade, and possibly some fancy laser-cut patterns in the disk to reduce warping from heat and to eliminate harmonic vibration.
Your saw is a factor, too. Heavy cabinet saws have massive cast iron or steel trunnions bolted to a heavy cast iron table mounted on a really stoutly made cabinet. The ball or roller bearings of the arbor are heavy, and the really pricey ones have tapered roller bearings to eliminate the endshake inherent in the other types. They often use two or more V-belts for smoother rotation and to handle the horsepower of the big motor that goes with that.
If, like a lot of us here, you have a smaller "contractor" style saw, with a big motor hanging out the back, there are things you can do to help with the shortcomings of not having all that metal. I have a 30-year-old Sears Craftsman 10" that I've had almost since new. These have a single V-belt, and the easiest upgrade is changing out the solid V-belt for a link-belt one. Solid V-belts that sit for weeks or months between use get a "set," like the flat spots that car tires get when they've been parked too long, and that will cause vibration. Link-belts are made of short segments hooked together, and they don't take a noticeable set no matter how long they sit. The pulleys on the cheaper saws are likewise cheap, usually pot metal, and neither true nor well balanced. A good set of steel ones is surprisingly affordable, and will give less vibration. The alignment of the blade to the table is done by slightly loosening four bolts and tapping the arbor with a plastic mallet until it aligns properly. The bolts are under the table and a pain to reach, and getting them torqued down without moving the arbor back out of alignment can be a challenge. There's a kit, about $15 when I bought it and over $30 now, I'm sure, that changes it to a much easier screw adjustment.
Your other question, about the negative hook angle, is simpler. The face of the tooth on most circular blade angles into the wood, taking a good bite. On a table saw, that's a good thing.
On a radial arm saw, the spinning blade, when it hits the wood, tends to pull the saw head into the cut. Unless you're ready for that, it can be scary, as suddenly a big motor and blade are trying very hard to come straight at you. If you're not prepared, the blade can even dig in and stall the motor, also scary. It's also really bad news if you've been stupid enough to leave something you didn't want cut, like fingers, in the path of the blade. Negative hook angle means the face angles a few degrees back the other way. It still cuts well, but it eliminates that tendency to grab and climb into the wood.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, the aftermarket riving knife is likely 1/8" thick and most thin kerf blades mike at 3/32 or less. I made a riving knife from a BT3000 blade guard by stripping it out of a second blade guard from another BT3000 saw. Actually, I am a bad user as I rarely use the factory blade guard. I did remove the anti-kickback pawls from the original guard because they were marking the workpieces.

Since the difference in thickness is only about 1/32", why not shape the edge of the riving knife, to allow the narrower kerf to pass and then open the gap in the wood? As long as it's ground on the outside edge, it won't push the wood into the fence and bind. If it's not too expensive, a second knife could be bought and ground on both faces to slightly below the height of the throat plate.

 

[woodnthings]

deleted

 

[Fried Chicken]

If you keep your saw in good trim, with a good sharp blade running precisely parallel to the miter slots, and the fence aligned likewise, most saws will give you an edge that doesn't require jointing. Any misalignment and you'll start getting tooth marks on the edge because the blade is heeling slightly ("heeling" means running at a slight angle to the path of the kerf) and your glue-up will look like rubbish. Vibration in the saw or run-out (wobbling) can have a similar effect, except less consistently. "Glue line rip" blades cost a bit more because the manufacturer makes them to a bit tighter tolerances, no measurable run-out in the disk, carbide teeth aligned precisely, better balancing of the blade, and possibly some fancy laser-cut patterns in the disk to reduce warping from heat and to eliminate harmonic vibration.
Your saw is a factor, too. Heavy cabinet saws have massive cast iron or steel trunnions bolted to a heavy cast iron table mounted on a really stoutly made cabinet. The ball or roller bearings of the arbor are heavy, and the really pricey ones have tapered roller bearings to eliminate the endshake inherent in the other types. They often use two or more V-belts for smoother rotation and to handle the horsepower of the big motor that goes with that.
If, like a lot of us here, you have a smaller "contractor" style saw, with a big motor hanging out the back, there are things you can do to help with the shortcomings of not having all that metal. I have a 30-year-old Sears Craftsman 10" that I've had almost since new. These have a single V-belt, and the easiest upgrade is changing out the solid V-belt for a link-belt one. Solid V-belts that sit for weeks or months between use get a "set," like the flat spots that car tires get when they've been parked too long, and that will cause vibration. Link-belts are made of short segments hooked together, and they don't take a noticeable set no matter how long they sit. The pulleys on the cheaper saws are likewise cheap, usually pot metal, and neither true nor well balanced. A good set of steel ones is surprisingly affordable, and will give less vibration. The alignment of the blade to the table is done by slightly loosening four bolts and tapping the arbor with a plastic mallet until it aligns properly. The bolts are under the table and a pain to reach, and getting them torqued down without moving the arbor back out of alignment can be a challenge. There's a kit, about $15 when I bought it and over $30 now, I'm sure, that changes it to a much easier screw adjustment.
Your other question, about the negative hook angle, is simpler. The face of the tooth on most circular blade angles into the wood, taking a good bite. On a table saw, that's a good thing.
On a radial arm saw, the spinning blade, when it hits the wood, tends to pull the saw head into the cut. Unless you're ready for that, it can be scary, as suddenly a big motor and blade are trying very hard to come straight at you. If you're not prepared, the blade can even dig in and stall the motor, also scary. It's also really bad news if you've been stupid enough to leave something you didn't want cut, like fingers, in the path of the blade. Negative hook angle means the face angles a few degrees back the other way. It still cuts well, but it eliminates that tendency to grab and climb into the wood.

I took all these details about a table saw for granted: the vibrations induced, etc.

I have my Craftsman Ryobi BT3000; I've never had any issues where I thought the cuts weren't good, bt I also don't complain about light burning or otherwise. Either go over it with a sander, a hand plane, or something else. When I had to joint something I used a flush trim bit referencing a piece of MDF.

Interesting tidbit, how "Glue line rip" blade simply means manufactured to a tighter tolerance. Maybe that's something for "lesser" blade manufacturers? Does Forrest make a "glue line rip" blade, or are they all "glue line rip"?

I'll have to see a diagram of the negative hook angle blade, but I guess I don't need it for the BT3000.

 

[jorgensenassociates]

Spend the extra money up front for a Forrest Woodworker II blade. GREAT all purpose blade giving the smoothest crosscuts and OK for ripping stock up to 3/4". This saves making a blade changes often. If you go with the thin-kerf version I do suggest getting their blade stabilizers.

 

[jorgensenassociates]

Spend the money up front for the best all around ; Forrest Woodworker II. This blade will work well for 95% of your cuts eliminating the need to be swapping blades unless ripping thick material. Smoothest cut out there. If you get the thin-kerf blade I do suggest their stabilizer plates though they reduce the thickness capacity.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Spend the money up front for the best all around ; Forrest Woodworker II. This blade will work well for 95% of your cuts eliminating the need to be swapping blades unless ripping thick material. Smoothest cut out there. If you get the thin-kerf blade I do suggest their stabilizer plates though they reduce the thickness capacity.

I'm not willing to spend that much, but it does underscore my idea to buy a high quality single blade.
I just never change blades lol

 

[DrRobert]

I'm not willing to spend that much, but it does underscore my idea to buy a high quality single blade.
I just never change blades lol

A single blade would be a combo. Personally not a fan, but some people like them. IME they don't excel at either but do OK when sharp. Where you'll find out this blade's limitations is crosscutting plywood.

I always recommend CMT. Once you get into it a bit more you'll want to use different blades. Someone recommended 24, 60 and 80 or 96 tooth. That's a basic set. FWIW I timed myself and a blade change took 1:40 without rushing.

 

[Rebelwork]

Spend the extra money up front for a Forrest Woodworker II blade. GREAT all purpose blade giving the smoothest crosscuts and OK for ripping stock up to 3/4". This saves making a blade changes often. If you go with the thin-kerf version I do suggest getting their blade stabilizers.

Forrest is one of many blades in that price range..