If hiding grain was my goal, I'd spray the dye.

 

If you are trying to hide the grain seal the wood with Zinsser Sealcoat and then use a gel stain. With a gel stain the color lays on the surface. An oil stain penetrates the wood enhancing the grain.

 

Red oak is very open porous. Anything at all will soak into the wood an unpredictable distance to drool out later.

Use a paste pore filler designed for the job. When that sets, sand the surface back and the pores,
the vessel elements, are sealed full.

Now, you can fool with the dyes and stains to your heart's content.
The surface is far more uniform and thus easier to finish than it was, raw.

 

Any brand you can recommend for a pore filler?
And the pore filler will accept the dye or stain same as the wood?
or if you tint the pore filler do you have to be spot on with the finish color?
Thanks

P.S. Never really cared for the gel stains, especially hard with raised panel doors. I have used GF oil and gel stains and they are not bad.
I just like the Zar wood stains. It is a little like a thick oil stain and I just seem to get a better job with them.
This project I will be using over a dye.

 

The only pore filler I know of is intended for oak floors. Mucky, pasty stuff that I have not used for decades.
I can see no reason why it wouldn't accept stain. If you sand back so that just the microscopic pores are filled, the existence of the filler ought to be invisible in the bulk of wood fiber.

 

Not to sure if I had the wrong idea.

Using dye then stain.

I was thinking light coat of dye and then a little darker stain . Would it had been better the other way around?

Also was wonder if a pre conditioner can be used after the dye and before the oil stain to hide grain a bit more.

 

A dye won't affect what stain does. A dye is more like ink. It will color the wood fibers where the stain will soak into the wood and embed a pigment into it. Whether you use the dye first or last the outcome would be pretty much the same.

If you are going to use a conditioner it would be better to use it before using either the dye or the stain. You especially should use the conditioner before using a stain.

 

Will remember that for next time.

Already have half the pieces with dye. Will I still be ok to still use the preconditioner before oil stain?

Thanks

 

Just an update what I ended up with.
Transfast water based dye followed with Zar oil wipe on stain. And very happy with the results.

On my test samples the pre conditioner after the dye and before the stain did not make a visible difference.

Had tried GF finishes oil gel and regular oil based stains but the Zar showed the grain less. The Zar seems to be a cross between a Gel and regular stain from what I can tell.

Plus I know I am the odd man out. But really dont like to jump on the General Finishes bandwagon unless I can see it is worth it.

Just because I hear so much about the terrible customer service. Someone else told me to try and contact GF and see what happens. Well I thought I would just check the website. Only a fax number for dealers. No phone number or email address.

On the other hand did have to call ZAR to see if I could thin the stain if needed and with what. Within a minute I speaking with tech support. Just good to know and like to support companies like this.

Cant assume you can follow the old rules with thinning these newer oil stains.

But the GF products definitfly were not bad and the non gel oil stain seemed pretty good and would have been my second choice..

 

As far as thinning stain, I don't know of any you can't thin to lighten the color. Now a gel stain is a different story. It's not really a stain, it's like you thinned down some brown paint so the more you thin it it would work like a wood stain than a gel stain. It's intended to lay pigment on the surface instead of it penetrating like a wood stain.

 

Not a question about thinning it is what you can thin it with. Normal mineral spirits will not work with. For example wiping oil stains like
Zar, Varathane and GF gel stain you cant.