I can tell you from experience that the smaller the saw does not mean the more accurate the cut in smaller pieces. It may be safer, but definitely not more accurate. Those 7 1/4 slider MS's are pretty much marketed towards homeowners who would occasionally make 90* crosscuts instead of using a handsaw. Most would probably not ever make a miter much less anything else.

I would wager theres more than likely something wrong with your saw or blade. A friend has the same saw and uses it specifically for trim so Id imagine its fairly decent. How much off are your cuts?

 

Thanks for the reply. For short cuts it does okay in reality. And I will admit for trim work I do need abetter blade. I am still using the original blade and while decent for cutting wood say for stair treads, etc. it does give me a fair amount of tear out. I may try a blade upgrade first.

Where I do see some out of square cuts are when I slide cut a much larger piece (say > 10 inches) and I have to be very careful with the extended handle when pushing inward to keep the cut line square. There is just a subtle deflection in the head assembly (and I have seen this in various stores with other sliders). It isn't far off and certainly good enough for anything being painted (like baseboards, etc).

But I am about to build a display case using walnut for some collectibles I have and it will be in memory for my dad. I really cannot afford to screw up any of the cuts and when building a prototype using pine I realized I was using an elephant to pull a sled. The saw just felt huge compared to the wood size.

I can see where a smaller saw would be 'safer" and why people on job sites would appreciate their smaller size and weight. I had read about blade deflection on larger blades causing some level of precision degradation. Some of what I am discussing may well be skill level as well. This is not my primary hobby. Those who golf or play tennis know too well a great golfer will still out play them even if using hand me down Goodwill golf clubs.

In my prototype (which proved it was a bad design) I just lacked some of the fit and finish I would prefer. My new design version should eliminate most of that but I couldn't help but wonder if a smaller saw wouldn't afford cleaner cuts in trim pieces. If not then another saw would just be a waste and perhaps a new blade for existing saw is where I should start.

I was glancing today at a DeWalt DW713 and could not help but notice there is no lateral movement in the head. of course it also does not slide. Which is why I questioned if in general sliders are inherently more prone to slight movement. John

 

The LS1018 is mentioned only because it seems to be a 10 inch version of the same/similar saw and priced about the same.

Thx John

I have an OLD LS101 (almost same as above).

It is a bad ass saw and has done a PILE of work for me (stairways mostly and LOTS of oak treads and such). I have gone through a small pile of blades with it over they years and it keeps on rocking with minimal maintenance. I would not hesitate to grab another if I needed one... :yes:

I can cause deflection in mine if I want it. Sometimes this is a good thing... :yes: With a good blade and even pressure I can also get little to no deflection if needed for the particular cut.

The baby version would be awesome to have for jumping out of the van and being able to quickly and easily get setup on the jobsite for small stuff like shoe moulding. Lighter than the 10" version for sure... I would buy one if the price was right but I would be well aware of its limitations and intended purposes. :smile:

 

If you simply lock your Ridgid from sliding, and use it as a 'chop' saw only, I doubt that would be significantly different than a 10" DeWalt non-slider. It's sounds to me like you'd just be buying more of what you already have. Most of the error in a slider is when it is fully extended, because that's where the flex is.

For small picture frames and such, maybe just a hand saw and a miter box might be the way to go.

Really, though, if you want the best precision I'd go with a table saw. It will cut small stuff just fine, and will have a lot more precision and versatility than a miter saw. After I got my table saw, I haven't even used my miter saw. Furthermore, the table saw will be significantly different than what you already have, you can do long rips with it and other things that your miter saw can't do. And, you can get a used table saw for $200-$300.

The miter saw is great if you need portability, but if that isn't a top-priority, I'd recommend a table saw.

 

Point well taken about the "more of the same" in regards to the 10 inch non sliding saw.

The hand saw and miter box I will take a pass on. I'm spoiled.. I like fast miter saw cuts!

As far as table saws and what I am wiling to spend, things get tricky fast. First, I have too many other hobbies and expenses that come before tools. Mind you I do enjoy tools and love the smell of cutting wood. But, two, I do not have room in my garage for a full sized table saw such as the hybrid style $500 type saw. For lack of better comparison something like the Ridgid R4512 sized saw. I had considered a portable table saw such as the $599 Bosch or the newly priced $399 Ridgid. But then you get into accessories needed to help preserve fingers, or sleds, etc and the price grows. Not to mention the size of a portable saw table is small. Good for ripping long lumber but poor as heck for plywood.

I'll give this more thought as you do raise good points. A table saw can take on the cuts my Ridgid Miter saw cannot, and it can also do a good job with small wood miter cuts if desired. Still, I would prefer a shop table saw and not a portable unit for job site cuts but I simply do no thave the room for such.

I think at this point my first move will be to replace the blade on my Ridgid and see how things go afterwards. Cutting more smoothly and with less tear out will be good.

Table saw remains an option but most likely would be the $399 Ridgid. Local HD still has the older saw version (R4510 and not R4513).

The smaller DeWalt has been ruled out for reasons mentioned.

The 8 1/2 inch Makita slider still remains on the table mostly "because". The smaller size and weight has some advantages and might be nice to have the smaller saw set up for smaller cuts, going with an 80 or more tooth blade while staying with a higher quality 60T for the bigger Ridgid.

If the table saw comes back into play the small miter is out. Have to admit I do have some degree of loss of finger fears related to using a small table saw for rippiing wood!

 

Your posts have me re-considering the table saw option. I visited a few sites and saw some interesting miter gauges/sleds (made by Inca for example) which claimed to provide a great deal of accuracy in the cuts (assuming of course saw blade is properly set up). Am curious how accurate/precise one can expect a smaller table saw such as the Ridgid R4510/4513 or Bosch 4100 would be using such a mitering device?

Everyone's comments thus far have been very appreciated and helpful. Anything that helps me think past myself is always good! I do not have a great deal of experience with table saws and do not have room for a larger more permanent shop type saw like I would prefer if I went that direction.

But if a small table saw can provide really precise cuts using a miter gauge/sled then it would make much more sense going that direction given the other benefits such as ripping longer pieces of wood.

I had seen the 8.5 inch Makita as something that could be set up with an 80 tooth blade mostly for fine work/precision compared to my Ridgid which would end up with a full kerf 60T blade. But I do see the redundancy here (versus changing blades).

I do not do a ton of wood work but do believe in buying decent quality items that will hopefully last me a long while. I would never target Festool because for me it would be a waste of money given my usage factor and my skill level probably would not do it justice.

Lastly, any recommendations for a nice blade for my Ridgid? I don't want to spend the price that Forrest wants for their blades so would prefer it to be something less than that but still much better than my stock blade now. Thx John

 

I can surely understand the issues of space, as even a contractor type table saw takes up a fair bit of space, especially relative to how often it is used.

I saw one guy who put hinges on the wings of his Craftsman contractor saw - that was pretty clever.

There's one popular guy on youtube who built a pretty fancy, portable, workbench. He had a way to insert a smaller table saw into his workbench, basically to expand the usable table top space. That's the only concern with smaller table saws, is that the table top to support your work is kind of small. Just found it, he's a got a lot of other videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N7RlWHaFbE

With your issue, I sort of envisioned something like the Paulk workbench (maybe smaller), with a portable table saw maybe permanently mounted, that you could remove the legs and store vertically against the wall. This would give you good table space, and not take up too much floor space.

 

Thanks again for the reply and information. Now THAT is some construction piece!

Most times when I start getting into woodworking thoughts I start to realize, like any hobby, the commitment it takes to get good at things. My brother (4 hours away) at one time had gotten very serious into woodworking but think that has died back a bit for him.

But I am also realizing costs can add up quickly (saw, replacement miter gauge, and I'd like a decent doweling jig in addition to the pocket screw device I am expecting to arrive tomorrow.

I need to get off my arse and order a replacement blad for my current Ridgid and see how that goes. Cheapest simplest option to try and in truth I need abetter blade before I cut any walnut or cherry as this blade has a lot of tear out.

At the very least thus far I have ruled out a few things. Mentally I am tempted by the smaller miter saw without much supporting fact behind it. Most likely means I'll get over the desire to buy it. Table saw remains an option though it can be bought later if new blade on current miter saw gives better performance. I don't foresee any need to rip cut anything unless the 2 x 4 section of plywood I buy isn't very square. In a worst case I could devise a cutting rail and use circular saw.

If I decide to live with partially visible pocket holes (on underside of shelves) I can forego the dowel jig. Of course all this in reference to the current project and not long term aspects.

The smaller saw is seductive for whatever reason but some form of table saw (if I purchase) does make more sense, especially given with a well made miter gauge it can do very precise miters if needed.

I can surely understand the issues of space, as even a contractor type table saw takes up a fair bit of space, especially relative to how often it is used.

I saw one guy who put hinges on the wings of his Craftsman contractor saw - that was pretty clever.

There's one popular guy on youtube who built a pretty fancy, portable, workbench. He had a way to insert a smaller table saw into his workbench, basically to expand the usable table top space. That's the only concern with smaller table saws, is that the table top to support your work is kind of small. Just found it, he's a got a lot of other videos.

With your issue, I sort of envisioned something like the Paulk workbench (maybe smaller), with a portable table saw maybe permanently mounted, that you could remove the legs and store vertically against the wall. This would give you good table space, and not take up too much floor space.

 

I always buy tools on an 'as needed' basis, i.e., I let the project determine what tools I will need. That's probably the smartest way to go, as predicting future needs is uncertain. So, if you think you can make your next project with your current set of tools, just stick with what you've got.

I think dowel jigs are cheap, and I think most of the cheap ones work OK. I've not used one, but you don't need to overthink that purchase.

Since you mentioned your current blade has tear out, sometimes, this can be solved with a zero clearance insert/support. A new, better blade is always good, but that might not solve the problem. Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYk_W6lvK1w

 

I always like $4 fixes and enhancements when available. Of course the one thing he did leave out was making sure both the poplar piece and the MDF were square which isn't always simple unless you can square it yourself. True lumber yards are disappearing and much of the big box store lumber is banana shaped cupped among other bad things! Still, this is a good idea.

I went ahead and bit the bullet.. purchased a Forrest blade that should get here tomorrow which will give me Sunday to install it and tinker. Both Amazon and Forrest give 30 day trials so the risk is low and if it works as good as many say it will last me for a long time. I considered a few other brands but in the end the savings for 1 blade wasn't that substantial.

I do think for this project I can make do with what I have given I did find a place that for a small fee can mill the lumber width for me sparing the need to do longer rips. By small fee I am talking about $6 per board or in my case a total of about $24 for the project.

If my Ridgid makes me happy with new blade for more polished cuts ( I won';t have any long cuts with which I'll need to use slider) I'll quickly forget about the smaller miter saws and then start to reconsider table saw options. No doubt ther emay come a day when having a decent table saw will be helpful (like squaring my own sacrificial sled materials such as in this video). Sme of the miter gauges for table saw appear to be quite precise in their ability to fine tune degrees desired.

Regarding dowel tools I have to say I found the Jessem dowel jig to look very nice. I was planning on using a pocket drill set up to mount the shelves and the back plywood piece as I can probably either live with the pocket holes or plug them sand and stain to help hide. But seeing this dowel jig does make me wonder. Is certainly something that will last a lifetime and any future time when I might want to build a display case with shelves, etc I would have it.

Hmm now where is that measuring tape to see where I can fit a real table saw in garage Downside is I'm not sure I am up to all the setup for a major piece of equipment. I do appreciate simple!

I always buy tools on an 'as needed' basis, i.e., I let the project determine what tools I will need. That's probably the smartest way to go, as predicting future needs is uncertain. So, if you think you can make your next project with your current set of tools, just stick with what you've got.

I think dowel jigs are cheap, and I think most of the cheap ones work OK. I've not used one, but you don't need to overthink that purchase.

Since you mentioned your current blade has tear out, sometimes, this can be solved with a zero clearance insert/support. A new, better blade is always good, but that might not solve the problem. Something like this:

 

I think this whole thread is being "over thought." The original poster seems to have a perfectly good 10" Rigid slider. Most of the error in that saw for the cuts described is often in the user.

Wasting money to buy a smaller saw is nonsense. Just take your time and get the accuracy out of your current saw. I have one of the cheapest Craftsman 10" single compound sliders. It is perfectly accurate if I do not try to rush things and take my time. It has served me well in a Condo refurbishment, a complete redo of my home and many large and small furniture projects.

George

 

George,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree the conversation here has gone in many directions but for me it has been constructive and helpful. I enjoy wood working when I do it, but this is not something I do all the time nor do I have a lot of expertise. That said, I do have some skills and I tend to make things slowly but they come out decently. I just would not want to hire me by the hour.

One clarification to your comments. My Ridgid is their 12 inch sliding compound miter saw, not 10.

This post was written after I had built a small (downscaled model) prototype of a display case I intend to build. The original design (now scrapped) involved some intricate cuts requiring some precision, where being off 1/16th of an inch would show. Using the large Ridgid just felt like I was using an oversized tool and thus I started reading about the smaller miter saws, thinking it might be advantageous to have a smaller set up to be used for smaller work.

Those more skilled than I no doubt are better able to do these cuts with most any saw and do a good job of things. Just like a pro golfer can use the cheapest clubs and still outperform the vast majority of the world. I'm neither a pro golfer or pro woodworker and sometimes I need to explore options that might better serve my shortcomings. If they do not exist then I just need to get better or hire out the work I cannot do (hard to find anyone who wants a small job like this one).

At this point I can probably do this particular project with the tools I have since I have redesigned it from scratch and eliminated most of the need for the super precise cuts. After I replace my Ridgid blade with the Forrest blade I'll see how it performs for me. Always a chance my factory blade shares at least a portion of the blame. Always a chance it is just me. It still feels like a huge saw when cutting smaller pieces which again is why I asked the first question about the smaller sliders. I have room in my garage for either (a) a job site table saw such as the Ridgid R4510/13 saws or another small miter saw on a vertical stand.

I am hopeful I'll be 100% satisfied with my saw + new blade and at some point in future can purchase a smaller table saw. Always good to have a decent tool when it is needed while at same time making a smart purchase to reflect the usage. Moving half my garage stuff out to put in a $1000+ table saw for me would be a waste and the saw would be wasted on me. However, a $400 saw with adequate fence stored vertically when not in use might well be a good fit.

Still, I don't disagree that this post has rambled. But it has helped me a lot in reaching the decisions I'm getting to and I'd rather ask and learn than proceed blindly into disappointment. John

 

Follow up with first my sincere thanks to everyone who added comments and thoughts. They made me think and helped me see things from a different perspective.

My Forrest blade arrived today. Without question compared to the Ridgid blade that came with unit the Forrest was much sharper to the touch (the Ridgid blade had not been used all that much). I checked all the alignments and found the fence was slightly out of square (I did not check with the Ridgid blade still installed). In past I had had some trouble with settings not holding so I was pleased to find my bevel and vertical settings were intact. I made the adjustments to the fence, readjusted the laser and started cutting some wood I had laying around (just pine).

First impressions.....

The Forrest blade without question is smoother than the factory installed original. Still some tear out but am sure with either tape or a sacrificial sled that would all but go away.

I had some wood > 13 inches which allowed me to first square the cross cut followed by a full length rip cut. I repeated the cuts a few times and everything came out very square. I was not seeing this level of tightness before (so it could have been caused by the fence not being square to the blade or it could be the Ridgid blade wasn't exactly "true").

The advice on this forum was accurate and helpful and for that I am thankful. For anyone with similar issues who read this I hope it offers some help as well. Definitely check to ensure the fence remains square and also the blade itself.

I will never know now if a Freud Industrial (or other equivalent) type blade would have been sufficient (most likely would have) but I chose to invest in a blade that is manufactured to very tight tolerances. It wasn't cheap (but was far cheaper than another saw).

My pocket cutter arrived today and I think next up will be a dowel jig. Ordered some Walnut plywood today and keeping fingers crossed it is nicely cut. After that the project is on. Hopefully will actually be enjoyable.

Thanks again to all. Your comments led me to what I think is a good solution. John