I always opt for 220. It will be worth it in the long run. Besides you will need 220 in the shop.

 

Ditto - can't do without 220 v in the shop. The $600 to get it out to your shop is a big hit but you only have to do it once. Plus, this will open up your opportunities for better but less expensive used equipment that is 220 v only.

 

I started with a 1.5 hp saw years ago and it wasn't long before I upgraded to a 3hp...I think you should get 220 in the shop and be done with it..What kind of saw are you looking at ?

 

While I'm about 1-2 years away myself, I will have this same dilemma.

Ditto - can't do without 220 v in the shop. The $600 to get it out to your shop is a big hit but you only have to do it once.

And this is part of my thought. I know I will want a bigger jointer and bandsaw that will likely be 200, as well as possibly a planer. After speaking with a local license electrician, he suggested I upgrade my current 100 amp service panel to the larger panel, though it'll still only be 100 amp. He said he'd do it all for about $600 including the the panel & extra breakers.

Mark

 

There is a notable difference, but it’s not essential to have 3hp. It’s a “nice to have”. $1k premium for a hobbyist to jump to 3hp seems pretty steep to me too. I could do whatever I needed with my 1.75hp hybrid…it’s just more sensitive to setup, blade selection, material density, etc. It did run better on 220v, but if your 120v circuit is adequate and dedicated to just the saw, and is well aligned and fitted with a good sharp 3/32” blade that’s suitable for the task, you should have no trouble. Keeping the blade clean, and the wood straight and flat helps too.

With that said, 220v is incredibly nice to have for larger DC or other bigger motors that you could want in the future. I ran my own line from a spare dryer line for ~$35.

 

You need 220 anyway, but $600 sounds pretty steep.

 

Thx for all your help, as of now I have all my recetables on their own circuit 20 amp, so this would be a plus for the 1.75 hp saw. I am purchasing a Sawstop pcs, I guess I just have to make up my mind weather to spend 600 for the 220 line, the extra 400 doesn't bother me, this will be my final table saw purchase at my age, thx agin, RJ

 

Ill be the odd man out and say go with the 1.75. For a hobbiest shop, thatll be more than enough horsepower to deal with the stuff youre likely to see in a home shop. Im not saying that more horsepower is bad thing, or that installing 220 would be a waste, just that for an average joe weekend woodworker theres no massive need for the extra horsepower, itd just be nice to have. Ditto with the 220 power, its another thing thats really handy to have, but for a hobbiest shop its not strictly necessary

Ive got a Delta 36-735 contractor saw with a 1.5hp motor on it, and i have no trouble ripping 4/4 hardwoods with a 50t combo blade. I have cut thicker before with no real issues, just had to slow the feed rate a bit, but lets be honest, 90% of what gets worked in a ome shop is 3/4 of an inch in thickness, hardwood speaking.

Save the grand and spend it on wood instead!

 

I agree.... I have 220 in my shop, but opted for a 1.75 hp saw last year... It sits I the center of my shop where the old Craftsman 113 was... I have a dedicated, 20 amp, 120 volt drop from the ceiling....
That old 1 hp saw did everything I ever asked it to do, so I saw no need for 3 hp.....

 

Like you I am just a hobbyist. I make furniture pieces and whatever else need doing.

I have 220 available if I want to use it. My tools are just standard Craftsman 120 volt. (table saw, jointer, planner and assorted hand held.)

I have never in over 30 years of woodworking needed or even wanted a 220 volt tool.

Save your money for other needed/wanted tools. Or have a few nice dinners somewhere.

George

 

The news that it’s a PCS does sways my view a bit because it’s a premium product. If you want the PCS to be your last saw, and the extra cost doesn’t cause you hardship, I can’t imagine that you’d ever regret getting the 3hp motor. There’s no question that 1.75hp will “suffice”, but is that really the what you hope to get from a saw the caliber of a PCS? There’s a lot to be said about absolutely loving using a new saw, and the bigger motor would undoubtedly contribute a lot to that. Will you kick yourself later if you don’t bite the bullet now? It’ll be more expensive to do in the future and will be a lot harder to justify after the fact too.

Hopefully you’ve at least opted for the T-Glide fence.

I’m not trying to complicate your decision, but am just wondering how you’ll feel about things later on….it really boils down to your circumstances, objectives, preferences, personality traits and tendencies, etc. There are obviously less expensive saws, and even less expensive Saw Stop options. Everyone's approaches are different, but due to our circumstances, we don’t splurge very often and usually make sensible decisions on big expenses….if I could justify splurging more often, I would, but that’s our reality. Every once in a while we’ll treat ourselves to a nice meal out at a fancy restaurant….at that moment my goal is to enjoy the evening, not be frugal or save money, so those are the times that I order what I really want, as opposed to what will suffice. “Food” for thought…. ;-)

 

I think I'm just putting a different spin on what's already been said, but I'm wondering what needs to be done to add what I'm assuming is a single 220 outlet that comes to $600. I used a 2hp Craftsman saw for years and years without any problem. It sawed anything 3/4" or so without too much complaint, although it would struggle with hard maple. One day I was feeling wild and bought a 3hp Unisaw. Man, what a difference. More power = better cuts and fewer burn marks. Since then, I've also gotten a jointer and planer, both of which run on 220. The money I spent has been long forgotten, but the satisfaction of having high quality adequately powered tools lives on.

 

The difference between how your tools act on 110 and 220 is very, very noticeable. It is definitely the way to go. The same goes for the 3 HP motor.
You should not be thinking "i'm not a commercial user so I don't really need 220". You should be thinking more about the performance of your tools in your hobby. It's hard to put a price tag on a hobby. Here is a crazy analogy: When I was just a hobbyist, I spent freely on tools because at the time, that is what I wanted and I could afford it. When I became a professional, my attitude changed. I was then thinking of return on investment for my tools and gave it more serious thought about tool purchases/investments. One might think it should have been the other way around.
Anyway, You should also get a second estimate on the electrical cost of upgrading to 220 to see if the first is in line. The one thing I will say about the service is that 100 Amps should be more than sufficient for a one or two man hobby shop. You can normally only run one tool at a time. Since the $600 would include a new panel, which i cant understand how he can just throw that in instead of reducing the cost, I would go for it.
Anyway, back to the 110 vs 220. In the future, you might want things like a good joiner or planer and they would also require 220V.
Lighting is another aspect that can be a 220V item for commercial lighting. I dont know thw size of your shop or the proximity from your house, so I am just guessing at things.
Bottom line: there should be no limit, other than affordability, on your hobby purchases. The better the equipment, the easier and more convenient, the more enjoyable and likely to use.

The defense rests.

 

The difference between how your tools act on 110 and 220 is very, very noticeable. It is definitely the way to go. The same goes for the 3 HP motor.

If performance on 240 is "very, very noticeable, up to 3 HP, then there is something wrong with the 120 setup. It is true that 120 vs 240 has some cost considerations, but performance considerations are not among them.

To the OP: A good description of your current electrical setup would go a long way to advising about a 240 install.

 

I try not to do this but I relay think you would kick yourself down the road if you don't get the 3hp saw and ofcorce 220...Tony I feel nailed it..

 

matt

Great minds think alike.

 

The Better the Tool

The better the tool, the better it performs, the better it performs, the safer it is. Not to mention user enjoyment and satisfaction.

 

I ran a 1.5HP 110V saw for years, no issues. I still run my current table saw on 110V no issues.

For general hobbyist you will be fine.

 

Running on 110 or 220 seems to more about opinion that anything else, there will alway those that will argue one way or the other.
I am in the 220 camp, I like running tools on 220 when possible, to me there seems to be fewer downsides, most shops will require it somewhere along the line for larger motors so I figure if it is there use it.

Many of the choices we make fall into either need or want. There is always a minimum requirement that is a need no argument there, beyond that it becomes a want and that is up to the individual.

 

for me it's more simple

Any motor 3 HP or larger absolutely requires 220V. Motors in the 1 HP to 1 1/2 HP range can run on either, but they perform much better in 220V. A 1 3/4 HP or 2 HP motor is an oddball, but I run mine on 220V. I run my 1 HP small shaper on 220V also. All my 3 HP (?) routers run on 120V, because that's all they can run on from the factory. So, howzat? Those motors are called universal type, and have brushes. They are "overrated" to some extent based on the HP rating process. A 3HP induction motor is the size of a basketball, where the 3 HP router motors are the size of a quart milk carton. Guess which one is more powerful...:surprise2:

So which voltage you have/need decides which motors you can power with it. It's that simple to me.

 

So there are things that people think, and there are facts.

A 1.5HP motor that is capable of running on "110V" or "220V"(technically incorrect terms) that is on a properly sized circuit and wiring for each 120V or 240V will perform/act/behave/EVERYTHING just the same.

The difference comes into play as you run larger motors, then 240V is a better source for the load only because the infrastructure involved. You could drive a 5HP motor with 120V, but it would take a huge circuit, and wiring to support it.

 

Man..LOL...Please try not to get upset guys...If your happy with 110 and don't understand something it doesn't mean its not all good, But.. .I also had a 1.5hp 110 table saw at one time and changed the wires to have it run on 220 and it had much more power and it did run cooler..I cant believe anyone would ague with the fact that 220 isn't more efficient...Please look into it ..Whats funny is if the 110 guys had upgraded to 220 tools you would no more about what your saying...

 

1st off, as SHOOT SUMM stated, it's 120 & 240, been that way for years. As to knowing what I'm saying, I have machines on both voltages in my shop. Most people who swear that when they switched to 240 their machine ran cooler/better, and I'm sure it did, because the 120 circuit it was on was inadequate in one or more respects - too small wire, too long a run for wire size, low supply voltage, etc. In properly laid out circuits, there is no difference. And I'm not upset, just trying to put things in perspective.

 

OK..I respect everyones opinion and this not being about safety its fine..I find as I get older there are times that a man is better off not making enemy's over who is right or wrong...Works with the wife also .So ..Lets just say you guys are right and go with that..All cool .Does it matter that much to you.

 

A more detailed explaination for those who are still interested in this-
Volts, voltage, are terms indicating the amount of electrical pressure. How hard the electrons are pushing.
Amps, amperage, how many electrons are moving. If this was water, think gallons. An amp is a LOT of electrons.
Watts, wattage. A measure of how much work is being done. One way to think about it is that 1 watt = 3.41 BTU's of heat.

So, if you double the pressure it takes 1/2 the quantity of electrons to get the same amount of work done. And if double the pressure on the windings of that motor it will have a very short life.

I welcome the corrections that are sure to come.

As someone who has a 3hp Hammer C3 and understands this pretty well, I ran #10 wire. Overkill but those are expensive Danish motors. My 1.5hp mill I've left on 120, no reason to change it.

 

The short version - there are two windings in a motor - each winding is designed for 120 volts, and that winding (wire size) is manufactured to carry the current required for the given horsepower with a minimum of heat loss. When you wire it for 120 volts, the two windings are connected in parallel. When you connect it for 240 the windings are put in series. Either way each winding has 120 volts across it, and the same amount of current through it.

 

Good lord, I've never seen so much disagreement about Ohms law, that is amperage multiplied by voltage equals wattage. Let's break it down, shall we?

Now, horsepower is a measure of power output, which is great because that means you can convert horsepower to watts. Saying a motor is rated to reliever 1hp is the same as saying that it delivers roughly 750 watts of power, which means that it has to take in at least that much power. In real life though, a 1hp motor will use roughly 1200 watts of electricity.

So, plugging that into ohms law we have:
1200=Amps times volts. On a 120 circuit, the equation looks like this:
1200=10 x 120

And on a 240 circuit it looks like this:
1200=5 x 240

You'll notice that despite the amperage and voltage changing, the total power remains the same. Moving up in voltage will reduce the amperage load, which will allow the use of thinner conductors as well as reducing the heat load, but it is not phspysically possible to put the same motor on a higher voltage and get more power out of it. It doesn't work that way.

The reason higher power motors require higher voltage circuits is the amp load. A 5hp motor on a 120 circuit is perfectly possible, but would require a 50 amp circuit and 4 gauge wiring, which is somewhat impractical. Moving that same motor onto a 240 circuit, while not increasing the overall power output, cuts the amp load in half, allowing the use of thinner conductors.

 

120v circuits draw their total amperage from one hot leg. It's not at all uncommon to have a 120v circuit that's really not to par due to having long runs of wire, multiple junctions, small gauge wire, bad quality wire, bad connections, or that's simply overtaxed from multiple appliances running of it, along with several other potential ills....many of us face this issues in our shops without even knowing it. Plugging a typical 1.5hp 15 amp contractor saw to that circuit can result in the saw not really running at it's full potential, creating excess heat due to the voltage loss, slower startups, slower recovery from lugging, excess heat, shorter motor life, etc. (15 amp nominal amp draw, 50+ amps momentary peak amperage all coming through that single hot leg). That performance would seem normal if it's all we've ever been exposed to. Switching that same saw to a 240v (aka 220v) circuit will usually cure the ills caused by the sub-par 120v circuit....you'd get faster startups, faster recovery from lugging, etc., giving the impression that the saw is now more powerful. What's really happening is that the saw is finally running to it's full potential. Installing a proper 120v circuit would likely cure the same ills, but it usually makes more sense to install 220v if you're going to install a new circuit. 220v circuits split their amperage draw across two hot leads....Half the amperage running across two hot leads is far less likely to ever reach the point where the supply circuit will experience notable voltage loss issues from the demands of that 1.5hp 15 amp motor. It also allows you to run larger motors that have a higher amp draw.

To me, it's really not an issue of which way the windings of a given motor are wired (parallel or series), but how well a given circuit can supply those windings.

 

Probably shouldn't respond because I can't really advise which size motor,where the cost/s may or may not be justified,which is dependent on the pce of equipments usage?Translated.....can you make more money with the bigger motor?

We have at present(besides what comes in for repairs and/or modifications)4 TS's.A 1 HP 9"...a 2HP,120 10"(dedicated dado head machine)....2HP,240 10" med. stroke slider....5HP 14/16.

I could easily get by with just the slider....with the "backup" of a cpl nice BS's.But I'd probably bump the power up to a 3HP if that was the case.This would be a one man pro-shop.


Edit;Oops need to add that the dado machine is 120 because this circuit also gets used for our baby DC,that and general laziness.