[NotHandyMan]

I know people post a million of these, but I'm going to add to the mess. I need a new table saw. I'm only considering new (no need to suggest good used ones, but thanks), 10%, cabinet saw, and I need to stay in the $1,000 +/- range. Here's what I'm looking at:

* Laguna Fusion. Everyone says they have great stuff but their customer service is the worst and it takes forever to get parts from them. At 1.75 HP, the saw may be a little underpowered for me to cut 8/4 material (the max I need to cut). They offer a 3 HP version, which I could consider.

* The Grizzly 1023RL and 0690. The 1023 looks a little more heavy duty (e.g., the table is thicker cast iron, and it has a Leeson motor), but I'm not sure about the construction. The 0690 seems to have a little bit more in terms of features, but it looks a little chintzy.

* Steel City 35950 or 35950G (granite). I've read some pretty good reviews of these saws, but I don't know much about the company, which is pretty new. Also, I probably missed it, but I don't see on their site whether the trunnion is cabinet-mounted or table-mounted (although I can't imagine it's table-mounted). This is also a 1.75 HP model, but I could also upgrade it to a 3.0 HP one.

There is very little cost difference for Grizzly or Steel City between 1.75 or 2.0 HP and 3.0 HP, which I also don't understand.

I welcome all comments, rants/raves, ideas, alternatives and insights. I will, however, ignore all suggestions re buying a used saw. Thanks!!!

 

[BassBlaster]

Well you said cabinet saw so you can toss everything you mentioned out the window except the Grizzlys. The others are hybrids to my knowledge. I like both of the Grizzly models myself. Id probably go with the 1023. Its been around for awhile and is a proven performer.:thumbsup:

 

[ryan50hrl]

I'm assuming you are meaning hybrid or cabinet. The steel city saw with granite is very similar to the current craftsman 22116, which I own. So similar in fact, almost every part cross references. Anyhow....it's a great saw that's done everything I've needed it to do. If I were spending 1000 on a new saw, I'd buy another hands down.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Oh, and the steel city ( and craftsman) are cabinet mounted.

 

[knotscott]

My money would be on the Grizzly G1023RL or G0690 if you're willing to be your own middleman. These two saws specifically have a very large happy following. They're industrial style cabinet saws vs a hybrid saw...dump truck vs pickup truck. Some of the hybrids do offer cabinet mounted trunnions, but they're not as heavy duty as the industrial cabinet saw's. Grizzly is a direct importer, meaning they have no dealer network, thus no dealer markup. Their quality is pretty similar overall to other Asian made table saws. If you want dealer support, you'll pay a premium for it, and will get less saw for the same money in the deal.....nothing wrong with that, just be honest with what's most important to you. It's also worth noting that 3hp requires 220v.



Industrial cabinet saws:

hybrids:

 

[ryan50hrl]

While that may be a fair assessment of other hybrids, the steel city is as beefy as many of the cabinet ones you posted. (And beefier than at least the yellow one)

 

[knotscott]

While that may be a fair assessment of other hybrids, the steel city is as beefy as many of the cabinet ones you posted. (And beefier than at least the yellow one)

These are the same guts as are in the Steel City 35926 and Cman 22116. They're definitely beefier than other hybrids, but not as robust as what's in the true industrial cabinet saws, including those made Steel City.

R4511/22116/35926 guts:

SC 35990 guts (credit "GoBig" for the pic):


Here's an older pic from a SC industrial cabinet saw:

 

[SeniorSitizen]

You buy the saw that replacements parts can be bought today. Any saw will eventually need parts and those that are difficult to obtain parts for now are very unlikely to have service after the sale a few years later.

 

[rrich]

* Laguna Fusion........

* The Grizzly 1023RL and 0690. The 1023

* Steel City 35950 or 35950G (granite).

It is an almost universal rule in sales that you don't speak about the competition, good, bad or indifferent. However when it comes to the brand that has a name similar to a beach town in Southern California the sales staff of the completion(s) brakes that rule. Using another machine of the same manufacturer left me underwhelmed. I would not consider this manufacturer for any power tool, but that's me.

Let me toss a few things at you.
How many more table saws do you want to buy? (Almost everyone wants to get to a cabinet saw in their lifetime.)

Do you have 230 Volts available in the shop? (Can you get it to your shop?) This is the huge decision block when it comes to cabinet saws. Yes, then a cabinet saw is possible, no then no.

A motor of 1.75 HP is really pushing the limits of 115 volt electrical service. Usually 2 HP and above requires 230 Volt service. I have seen equipment that requires 115 Volt 30 Ampere circuits. Electrically it is possible using 10 gauge wire but I don't know of 115 Volt plugs and outlets that can carry 30 Amperes. I do not think that using 230 Volt outlets (30 Ampere) with 115 Volts would conform to code.

As nice as it seems, there is one drawback to a granite table, magnets will not stick to granite.

As for which brand? I do not want to say because I am biased. I would say to seriously consider right tilting table saws. It is a huge advantage that when the accuracy of the distance (fence to blade) doesn't change. But that's me.

If you can, wait until next year's income tax refund and add that to your kitty for the new saw. You may be able to broaden your choice.

I don't understand your bias against a used table saw, but that's you.

 

[BWSmith]

We had one of the "beach town" BS's.By the time the replacement tyres showed up,6+ months after paying for them......the saw was gone,still got some new tyres though?

We fix a lot of equip here(new and old)so I'll always choose used.Our German 14/16 TS was bought for less than a cpl cases of Guiness.

 

[NotHandyMan]

Thanks to all of you for your time, effort and feedback. It's interesting that not one person even liked the Laguna - I expected some discussion given their "cool" factor. Based on your comments, I'll write that one off.

It's also interesting getting people's views about hybrid versus cabinet saws. There doesn't seem to be an official line of distinction, but I'm thinking of a true cabinet saw as having at least 5 HP, steel and cast iron everywhere, heavy-duty cabinet-mounted trunnions, and components that will last for years of continuous use. What I need is more like 3 HP, low vibration/high stability, and general quality of construction. I'll be using the saw evenings and weekends only, and, as I said, cutting nothing thicker than 8/4.

I'm still a little confused. I don't really see why one might choose the Griz 1023 over the 0690, in other words, what do the noted differences mean in terms of the saw's suitability to task? It seems that the feedback is that the 1023 is more industrial, which I'm assuming is because of the thicker table. The 0690 has a thinner table but probably a better motor. There seems to be enthusiasm for the Grizzlys, more than for the SCs, so unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'll probably go that route.

Technical question: These saws say they need 230V. I *think* that my gas dryer and electric stove both use 220V. If I can get one does it mean I can certainly get the other? Thanks.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Side By Side Comparison......its my opinion that the steel cities win hands down.

 

[BWSmith]

On the electrics.......

It's not that there aren't folks on forums who really are crackerjack electrician/elect.engineers,there are many.It's just that it's a sticky subject with some when giving advice on things that can do harm.....and things that are generally highly regulated.

A certified,genuine licensed electrician has lot's of experience in these areas,where you live.More than likely you can have one come over and assess your electrical requirements and hook up a sub-panel that will satisfy all but the most demanding home shops.....and be reasonable in price.

There is still a metric ton of things the shop owner needs to know about elect. requirements,and is largely responsible for a lot of how things get run(space,location,etc.).Augmenting this with a professional can really pay bennies.

 

[rrich]

Technical question: These saws say they need 230V. I *think* that my gas dryer and electric stove both use 220V. If I can get one does it mean I can certainly get the other? Thanks.

If your house was built in the last 50 years it has 220 volts to the breaker panel. Look at the wires to the pole. Two wires wrapped around a bare (or white) wire means that you have 220 volts to the panel.

A gas dryer requiring 220 volts, in North America, would be a vary rare item. The electric stove, other than a hot plate, requires 220 volts.

As has been suggested go to a licensed electrician to get the power that you need for the saw.

Let me throw some gasoline on the fire.

I got this today in an e-mail.

http://woodworker.com/14-rt-table-s...mail&utm_content=109412&utm_campaign=IRW0913D

It is too big, 3 phase and over your price. HOWEVER it may be worth your time to look at their catalog. DUNNO but electrons are basically free.

When I bought my cabinet saw I thought that I needed a 5 HP motor. The price difference was way too great to get a 5 at the time. I have a 3 HP saw and it is more than enough power. I've run 12/4 (3" thick) Oak and Cherry without a problem. The key is to use the appropriate blade for the task. (If desired we can start another thread for saw blades.) Don't get fixated on the 5 HP thing. Even for commercial shops 3 HP is enough for a 10" table saw. If you need to cut something thicker than 12/4 you're going to need a 12" or 14" saw which is even more bucks.

 

[NotHandyMan]

Thanks all, again. Ryan50hrl - wow, where did you get that chart? Did you make it??

Based on all the comments, I'm probably going to get the SC 35965. I'm convinced that even though the granite would look cool, being able to use magnetic accessories is more important than looks, so I'll go for the steel version. My only problem now is that there don't seem to be an distributors in MA, so I've contacted SC to see about how to purchase one! Home Depot sells them online, but they want $1,599, not $1,299, so I'm trying to sort that out now. If I can't work this out, I'll go with the Griz. I'll probably get the 1023RLW, which includes a router table in the wing. The 0690 doesn't offer that option, and a router table extension purchased separately is $399. Thanks again!

 

[Trav]

Side By Side Comparison......its my opinion that the steel cities win hands down.

Unless I am reading your chart wrong:

You may want to amend your chart to not reflect the smaller dado capacity as an advantage.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Thanks all, again. Ryan50hrl - wow, where did you get that chart? Did you make it??

Based on all the comments, I'm probably going to get the SC 35965. I'm convinced that even though the granite would look cool, being able to use magnetic accessories is more important than looks, so I'll go for the steel version. My only problem now is that there don't seem to be an distributors in MA, so I've contacted SC to see about how to purchase one! Home Depot sells them online, but they want $1,599, not $1,299, so I'm trying to sort that out now. If I can't work this out, I'll go with the Griz. I'll probably get the 1023RLW, which includes a router table in the wing. The 0690 doesn't offer that option, and a router table extension purchased separately is $399. Thanks again!

No problem...I whipped it up.

A few things....amazon.com has the saws, and I understand if it shows none on stock they'll order one when you do, kinda a special order.

One thing to keep in mind, the granite top never rusts...regardless of what you do to it.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Unless I am reading your chart wrong:

You may want to amend your chart to not reflect the smaller dado capacity as an advantage.

Good catch....thanks.

 

[Anguspapa]

A motor of 1.75 HP is really pushing the limits of 115 volt electrical service. Usually 2 HP and above requires 230 Volt service. I have seen equipment that requires 115 Volt 30 Ampere circuits. Electrically it is possible using 10 gauge wire but I don't know of 115 Volt plugs and outlets that can carry 30 Amperes. I do not think that using 230 Volt outlets (30 Ampere) with 115 Volts would conform to code.

They do make 120 volt / 30 amp outlets and plugs that meet code, but the are usually associated on mobile homes. Usually when you hit 30 amps your at 220. Last just like said you do not want to start playing with different outlets for different amp ratings.

Depending on if you can or can't run a new circuit, I would suggest running 10/3. That way you are ready for 20/120, the is one size bigger, but not enough resistance to cause any problems, and you would have 1 free wire. You could also do 20/240 or 30/240.

Eric Williams

 

[Toller]

Thanks to all of you for your time, effort and feedback. It's interesting that not one person even liked the Laguna - I expected some discussion given their "cool" factor. Based on your comments, I'll write that one off.

I don't know about the tablesaw, but my Laguna drill press was a dog. (but my Laguna BS blade was great, go figure)