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Sawdust Creator
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I have a DW735.....i've run about 400 bf of soft maple, hard maple and oak through it now......on the original knives which still don't need replacing. Its stopped feeding once to which I wiped down the feed rollers which were covered in sap and saw dust (don't plane construction grade 2x4's.....my own fault) with mineral spirits and waxed the bed......that was 200 bf ago or so.......still cutting perfect. I did buy the in/outfeed tables and a wixey for it......but other than that.......its the same as when I bought it.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?

I've never been terribly impressed.......I think they're decent....but not as good as Dewalt or Makita. For portable stuff, it'd be the new dewalt 20v stuff......planers it'd be another dw735......Stationary stuff...i'd probably look at steel city or grizzly if it was a budget purchase. I really like my steel city built table saw.....

I guess thats more than you asked....
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
You could not pay me to have a lunch box or import machine.
All your festool pieces are imports....I believe you wanted to say you won't have an Asian import tool....

It's funny how Japanese cars were looked at in the 80's, versus today....makes me wonder if the same thing is happening with tools.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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I find it odd, some imports are ok while others not? So im guessing your ok with festool based on quality....what about powermatic tablesaws? They're great quality but imported from Asia?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
No pacific rim or asian machines or tools for me.

Not a big powermatic fan, but I would not consider anything they made in asia.
So I'm not trying to start a big thing here....but why not? Why is a high quality piece from Germany ok, but not a high quality piece from Asia. I understand disdain for cheap junk coming from Asia....but powermatic saws are among the best you can buy today....similar to festool.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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And I understand the need for less expensive tools, today they come from china, at one point they came from Japan and Germany....I'm not arguing the fact that there aren't subpar tools that some people wouldn't want.

What I'm debating is a blanket statement saying the tools from Asia are crap and no one should buy them. (Obviously paraphrasing here). If its about buying American that's one thing, but we've seen that European imports are fine, so now were back to just saying Asian tools aren't good.


I'd argue that some Asian tools (powermatic for example) are as good today as you can buy. And a statement that imported tools are junk is an inaccurate statement at best.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Interesting...so it's not about quality, it's about politics.

What kind of phone or computer are you posting here from if you don't mind me asking?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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tonycan said:
I readily agree that not all Asian produced equipment Is poor, hence the comment that it is the companies quality requirements that dictate how good the manufacturing is. My point is that to only buy North American or German equipment is beyond the pocket of the majority. I recently replaced my old Craftsman fixed base Router with a combo set ($ 106 US) from Skil ( Bosch tool co.) and am totally impressed with the results, both freehand and in the table. It was made in Mexico.
Totally agree with you!!! I wasn't glossing over your comment.

Every time this conversation comes up it riles me up. It's not realistic to think every hobbiest is going to have 1900's saw benches and 24 inch 10hp planers. And to make new woodworkers think anything less is junk is counter productive. Would I like a stationary planer, sure, but it would end my woodworking hobby as I'd die trying to get it down stairs, and if I did, it would be the only thing in my shop as there'd be no room for anything else.

Lunchbox planers, and other modern import tools have a place, which is in most hobby shops. Are they going to run non stop 24/7, no, but many of us don't need them too.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
It's more about quality and pride. I can't afford cheap tools, I don't have time for them. I use my tools and machinery to feed and provide for my family. I hate everything to do with outsourcing manufacturing to Asian based country's. American's have become cheap and constantly want more for less. I hate that. I want value, value to me has more to do with how long of service life I can expect out of something. I don't want to buy the same thing every few years just because it is cheap.

Cheap Chinese and Asian made tools are not made to last, they are made to a price point. A price point that has conditioned people to be used to crappy throw away tools, machines and goods.
But you've just said its not about quality..there's tons of good quality Asian tools out there in hobby shops, production shops, and huge industrial facilities that work non stop.

I'm not arguing that the 100 dollar table saws you can buy today aren't junk, but your asserting a 4000 dollar Asian table saw isn't good enough quality to provide for your family with? Or that it won't last?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
I never once said it is not about quality to me. I will not support an Asian based company or manufacturer. To make what they make at the price point it sells for, something is skimped on, plain and simple.
What is skimped on for saw stops, powermatics and high end grizzlys?

They're certainly not cheap....they're not hitting a particular price point.... I haven't seen any particular weaknesses in them? So enlighten me as to where the quality is not right?

What would you expect the life expectancy of a 3500-4000 dollar powermatic tablesaw to be for the average guy on here?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
Because I like to support places that actually pay their workforce a wage you can live on and provide with. I do not want to give my money to a communist country that owns the majority of our debt. I do want my money to get in the hands of countrys and people that hate the US.
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Here's the real reason I suspect you won't buy Asian tools, and that's fine. Nothing at all wrong with that....I probably wouldn't support Iranian tools if they tried to sell them here.

By the way, talk to someone that's visited Hong Kong or Taiwan, and the people there are pretty fond of Americans. I don't think you've got it at all right that buying Asian is buying from people that hate us.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
Most on here would not even buy a 300-400 dollar saw, too much money.
There's a ton of guys on here with grizzly and saw stop saws.....all well over 1000 bucks....and to those that can't afford a high end saw, should they not woodwork?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Why should we feed human beings that are building them? Because its what we've done as human beings for centuries. International trade is nothing new....it's part if the reason North America was discovered in the first place.


So how specifically does the lower quality steel affect the new powermatic table saws, can you provide an instance where anyone has had a problem with the steel in one?

Are you making an assumption that the quality isn't there, or do you have anything to back it up?

Lastly, when did profit become a bad thing? I don't hold stock in companies that don't make profit.....and the more they make, the better my bottom line is at the end of the year.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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So for reference to determine the "value" that a modern Asian tool has compared to the old ones.

Grizzly's top of the line 16 inch jointer.....6500 dollars spiral cutter head......and I think you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that it wouldn't run for years and years in a continuous use shop.......

Olivers 16 inch jointer price in 1929.....840 dollars....and according to the bureau of labor statistics....the equivalent of 11,500 dollars today.

Would anyone be willing to spend twice as much.....to have it built here vs there? Cause in my mind...if it dies in 30 years, i'll buy a new one and still be money ahead.....

The argument that Asian tools don't have VALUE, is confusing to me.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
I would pay it. You would be supporting a US business, that employed US labor force where the profits stayed right here in the US. No outsourcing cheap labor and materials to garner a profit that way.

I would gladly pay what I pay for my Festools from a US manufacturer, if one would step up and do the right thing.
But you said it was about quality....that's my point. Your making those recommendations based on national pride not on the merits of the machine.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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mike1950 said:
If you are going to use it as a weekend warrior a lunchbox is fine- 2 tons of beautiful steel will not be necessary, affordable nor will it improve your work. Buy the the dewalt and spend the extra money on some nice walnut or cherry..
Agreed!!!!
 

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Sawdust Creator
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WarnerConstInc. said:
A forum search, with key words grizzly problem, in the tool section yields 194 topics on that.

Where is that quality control?
Against what 10's of thousands sold? Maybe more?
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Are you in a committed relationship with Grizzly?

A few posts ago you wanted some proof, you said there are a bunch of guys here with these saws.

Seems lots come here because they have problems with their stuff.

It must hurt your feelings or something.

Nope.....I don't have a single grizzly piece.

I wanted proof that poor steel or bad bearings are the cause of problems with Asian tools......not that someone didn't read the owners manual or used a crappy blade. You probably don't hear as many complaints about old iron brands any more.....cause you can't buy a new one. I bet the guys on this website have grizzly, jet or shop fox stuff 100 to 1 on the old iron stuff........
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Alright......Well i'm going to say to the OP.....buy whatever fits your needs and budget. If you have specific models in mind, feel free to bounce them off of everyone........other than that.....i'm out on this one.
 
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