[nbo10]

Does anyone have experience with using these in end grain? I'm thinking of using them for a bed project. I want the bed to be easily broken down.

Thanks

 

[Leo G]

You could use these

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=367&site=ROCKLER

 

[4DThinker]

The problem is that inserting those in end grain want to split the board. I've done it by keeping the end in a clamp/vise as I put the insert in. The cross dowel is also what I'd recommend. You can blind drill them from the inside of the board so the hole doesn't show on the outside. Use a Forstner bit and set the depth carefully. Drill the bolt hole a little oversized so you don't have so much trouble lining the bolt up with the hole in the cross dowel.

 

[Dave Paine]

+1 that cross dowels are better for end grain application.

Lee Valley have some very heavy duty ones.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/page.aspx?p=40445&cat=3,40842,41269&ap=1

Or these

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/page.aspx?p=67659&cat=3,41306,41319&ap=1

 

[cabinetman]

Does anyone have experience with using these in end grain? I'm thinking of using them for a bed project. I want the bed to be easily broken down.

Thanks

Could you show how the parts are oriented and how you plan to fasten?

.

 

[nbo10]

Here is more first real use of sketchup. The parts are 2x2”.

I've used the other suggested parts before and they worked good. These looked a little more simple.

 

[ryan50hrl]

What size bed is this for....if its a crib I don't see a problem with 2x2 construction, but if its a full bed 2x2 may not be strong enough. Also, how much weight will the joint be carrying?

 

[nbo10]

It is a knock off of an ikea bed. if I wasn't on my phone I could post a link. it is for a family friend. They are going to use it for there kids, twin size. I don't really like the design but it is what they want.

 

[Dave Paine]

I've used the other suggested parts before and they worked good. These looked a little more simple.

The inserts looks simple, but they are not easy to install without the insert skewing off at a slight angle. I even purchased the special driver to try and avoid the skewing. It was not as bad as just using a screwdriver, but I still struggled with the insert.

The cross dowels are what I would use for the bed application.

 

[nbo10]

Do you drill a pilot hole for the insert?

 

[Dave Paine]

Do you drill a pilot hole for the insert?

Absolutely. You need to experiment with the size. Too small a pilot and the insert will either not screw in, or will break the wood. Too large a pilot and the insert will strip out under load.

You want the smallest pilot which allows screwing the insert in place without breaking the wood, or stalling part way in the hole. If stalling happens the inserts are difficult to remove - at least they were for me.

Hole depth will depend on the bolt you will be using.

 

[nbo10]

Thanks for the advice Dave. I picked up a bunch of the cross dowels at wood craft this week. Much cheaper than HD or lowes, plus labor day sale.

 

[Tony B]

Glad you bought the cross dowels. That is the standard way of making that particular kind of joint. It is used quite a bit on European knock-down furniture. They are also called Barrel Nuts.

For the record, I have never seen any commercial use of inserts in end grain. That ought to tell you something.

 

[Pirate]

I've made that joint, by making a blind mortise, and using a regular nut and washer.

 

[bandman]

Bed Inserts

In the 80's I used those inserts by the hundreds when I was making knock-down computer furniture for a living. I used 3/8" threaded inserts and they were driven into 5/4 oak end-grain on the modesty panels of the computer desk. NEVER had one split! Drill the pilot hole a little larger than 3/8" and make sure it is at a right angle to the perpendicular post you are going to connect. The inserts I used were driven in using a 12mm hex head allen wrench bit in my battery operated drill. I used to get my inserts from a company called Sta-Put or Stay-Fast, don't remember which, but they worked great. Get them as long as you can and try to get the ones with as deep a groove as possible. I don't use them a anymore, and if you casn use 3/8" ones I'll send you some, I know I have some left. I just used 1/4 x 20 machine screws and never had an issue. We used 12 screws per table and included oak buttons and the screws
in the assembly package. We had a good product and didn't have any returns, the biggest problem was marketing the product. The computer stores made a whole lot more money selling a $2000 computer the could lift by themselves then selling a $300 table that took two people to carry out to the vehicle. Had that business for 13 years and wouldn't go back to being self-employed for love nor money!! I progressed back to amatuer status almost 20 years ago and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck,

Bandman

 

[rrich]

Generally speaking, threaded fasteners do not hold well in end grain. This means screws and inserts.

If you have to use the threaded inserts, drill the smallest hole that allows the insert to be driven in without splitting the wood. And then maybe 1/64" larger. THEN, use a Q-Tip and coat the inside of the hole about as deep as the insert with TB-III. The TB-III should not be overly heavy but don't skimp. Install the insert and allow the glue to cure for a day or two. The parts should hold without a problem.