[GAF]

This is a follow on question to my original one regarding top coating teak.

I have stained the teak table top with MinWax Early American in an attempt to match the original color of the table. The picture below demonstrates that I have not yet achieved the desired color.

The top of the picture shows one of the table leaves that was not stripped and stained but only top coated to bring back its original sheen. The bottom part of the picture shows the table top as currently stained.

I am looking for advice on what to do to get the table top color closer to the leaf color. Stripping and starting over seems too dangerous to me for fear of wrecking the table top. To me the deeper part of the grain does not seem to be picking up stain on the newly stained table toip. Help please.

Gary

 

[GeorgeC]

Your picture came out left and right as opposed to top and bottom.

I am against staining teak. Period.

I think that your best bet will try to strip all of it and start over. Then you can finish however you wish.

George

 

[Steve Neul]

The early american looks kind of thick. Did you wipe off the excess or did the wood just soak it up?

Matching a color like that takes a lot of tinkering and you need lots of supplies for that tinkering. It would be helpful if you would stock a large varity of aniline dye powders or premixed Ultra Penetrating Stain. The stuff really has a good shelf life. I have some that is more than 20 years old from Star Chemical that is no longer in business that is still fine. From where you are I would probably coat over the table with a cherry aniline dye or a mixture similar to it. The top needs red but a rusty red. Then the finish on the leaf has yellowed. To recreate that I would use a amber shellac. If you intend to use poly as a finish you would need a dewaxed amber shellac or put a couple of coats of sealcoat over standard amber shellac. If you are using lacquer for a finish then lacquer can be used over standard shellac.

 

[GAF]

The early american looks kind of thick. Did you wipe off the excess or did the wood just soak it up?

Matching a color like that takes a lot of tinkering and you need lots of supplies for that tinkering. It would be helpful if you would stock a large varity of aniline dye powders or premixed Ultra Penetrating Stain. The stuff really has a good shelf life. I have some that is more than 20 years old from Star Chemical that is no longer in business that is still fine. From where you are I would probably coat over the table with a cherry aniline dye or a mixture similar to it. The top needs red but a rusty red. Then the finish on the leaf has yellowed. To recreate that I would use a amber shellac. If you intend to use poly as a finish you would need a dewaxed amber shellac or put a couple of coats of sealcoat over standard amber shellac. If you are using lacquer for a finish then lacquer can be used over standard shellac.

Steve, lots of good advice as usual. Thank you. I now have my challenge cut out for me for tomorrow morning in my workshop. This really is not a simple process when it comes to matching colors. Whew.

Gary

 

[Steve Neul]

Steve, lots of good advice as usual. Thank you. I now have my challenge cut out for me for tomorrow morning in my workshop. This really is not a simple process when it comes to matching colors. Whew.

Gary

Don't feel bad, it's a pain matching stain for anyone. I charge two hours labor to match a simple stain color. It just takes a lot of trial and error. When I had a refinishing shop I had more supplies than I do now so it makes it really difficult for me now. Sometimes I have to quit and go back to the store and get different colors than what I have on hand. That is why I was recommending the dye. If you stock a lot of different oil stains chances are it would be seperated and gone bad when you need it. The dye will keep on the shelf.

 

[cabinetman]

I think that your best bet will try to strip all of it and start over. Then you can finish however you wish.

George

+1. :yes: That's what I would do. Too much "tinkering" for an inexperienced finisher. Actually a lot of "tinkering" for a skilled finisher.

.

 

[GAF]

Don't feel bad, it's a pain matching stain for anyone. I charge two hours labor to match a simple stain color. It just takes a lot of trial and error. When I had a refinishing shop I had more supplies than I do now so it makes it really difficult for me now. Sometimes I have to quit and go back to the store and get different colors than what I have on hand. That is why I was recommending the dye. If you stock a lot of different oil stains chances are it would be seperated and gone bad when you need it. The dye will keep on the shelf.

Steve, now I understand better why you were recommending the dye approach. Makes sense.

I forgot to answer your question in your last reply. When I put the stain on I did not wipe off the excess but rather just let it soak in because I was trying to get the color darker.

Thanks.

Gary.

 

[Steve Neul]

Steve, now I understand better why you were recommending the dye approach. Makes sense.

I forgot to answer your question in your last reply. When I put the stain on I did not wipe off the excess but rather just let it soak in because I was trying to get the color darker.

Thanks.

Gary.

That's generally a bad practice to apply a oil stain and not wipe it off. If the stain dries on the surface it doesn't bond to the wood very well. Then when you finish over it the finish bonds to the stain instead of the wood. Then in a few weeks or months the finish flakes off taking the stain with it. It's just difficult to tell from the picture and I'm not sure I could tell if I was there if you have enough stain on the surface to cause that. It's just best for better or worse to wipe it all off after a couple of minutes. If it's the wrong color then deal with it with dyes. I realize you don't have teak laying around to make samples but when working on a refinish you could have tested the stain on a small spot and if it didn't work altered the color of the stain with tinting colors while it was fresh. When matching a color like that I normally stain the wood as close as possible with an oil stain leaving it a little light and then tinker with the final color with dyes after putting a very thin coat of sealer on. With the sealer you can see better what it's going to look like. Sometimes I still don't get the color right and the appearance changes some after you start building an emulsion. You can still spray a thin layer of dye over the finish and you can even add the dye powders to the finish you are using. Usually it's a matter of balancing the red in it. Sometimes you get the color too red so you use a green dye to counteract it and sometimes it's not red enough so you add a red dye. There are just so many different colors you just have to stock a large variety and with experience you can usually look at a piece tell which one it needs.

 

[GAF]

Wiping Off Excess Oil Stain

That's generally a bad practice to apply a oil stain and not wipe it off. If the stain dries on the surface it doesn't bond to the wood very well. Then when you finish over it the finish bonds to the stain instead of the wood. Then in a few weeks or months the finish flakes off taking the stain with it. It's just difficult to tell from the picture and I'm not sure I could tell if I was there if you have enough stain on the surface to cause that. It's just best for better or worse to wipe it all off after a couple of minutes. If it's the wrong color then deal with it with dyes. I realize you don't have teak laying around to make samples but when working on a refinish you could have tested the stain on a small spot and if it didn't work altered the color of the stain with tinting colors while it was fresh. When matching a color like that I normally stain the wood as close as possible with an oil stain leaving it a little light and then tinker with the final color with dyes after putting a very thin coat of sealer on. With the sealer you can see better what it's going to look like. Sometimes I still don't get the color right and the appearance changes some after you start building an emulsion. You can still spray a thin layer of dye over the finish and you can even add the dye powders to the finish you are using. Usually it's a matter of balancing the red in it. Sometimes you get the color too red so you use a green dye to counteract it and sometimes it's not red enough so you add a red dye. There are just so many different colors you just have to stock a large variety and with experience you can usually look at a piece tell which one it needs.

Steve, your comments about wiping excess stain are a big wake up call for me. I have done what I considered to be lots of research over the last 18 months and this message has never sunk in to me. If there are occasions when I see excess stain I surely do wipe it off. I always test that the stain has dried fully before going into the finishing process but I guess that alone is not good enough.

I do not wipe down newly stained surfaces as a general rule. So far I would have to say that I have been lucky. One of my early projects is a waterfall style 1940s dining room table and chairs which we use once or twice a week and never have I witnessed an issue that might suggest that the top coats did not adhere properly.

To be sure I will immediately change my process to include the excess stain wipe off step. Many thanks.

Gary

 

[Steve Neul]

Steve, your comments about wiping excess stain are a big wake up call for me. I have done what I considered to be lots of research over the last 18 months and this message has never sunk in to me. If there are occasions when I see excess stain I surely do wipe it off. I always test that the stain has dried fully before going into the finishing process but I guess that alone is not good enough.

I do not wipe down newly stained surfaces as a general rule. So far I would have to say that I have been lucky. One of my early projects is a waterfall style 1940s dining room table and chairs which we use once or twice a week and never have I witnessed an issue that might suggest that the top coats did not adhere properly.

To be sure I will immediately change my process to include the excess stain wipe off step. Many thanks.

Gary

I'm afraid I learned that the hard way. When I started refinishing if I had a piece of furniture that the stain didn't come out as dark as I wanted I put the stain in a sprayer and sprayed a even coat over the whole thing and let it dry overnight. First thing you know I had customers calling me telling me the finish was pealing off their furniture and I had to pick it up and refinish it again. I kinda put two and two together and figured the way I was staining was the problem and quit it. Years later I found out it was generally a bad practice. Then I learned about dyes and found out you could do the same thing without the causing adhesion problems.