[Sleeper]

I just saw a new house framing photo and ALL the studs were pieced together with short board’s spliced together.

It’s been 25 years since I was working in wood frame construction, but I’ve never seen anything like this. There were a few times when I saw carpenters cutting an in-place stud to straighten it, but I don't know what to think about this.

Is this an isolated thing or is this what happening these days. I imagine it would help in assuring straight studs and with the glue today it might be just as strong, but how does it affect the cost?

 

[<*(((><]

Are you referring to finger jointed studs? If so then yes they are being used a lot I residential construction.

We used the in our tract homes that I was a superintendent for. I would never use then in my own home or a home that I had control over buying materials.

 

[Sleeper]

Yes I guess they are "finger jointed studs". I was avoiding the term because I could not tell by the photo. I could see that they were definitely spliced together.

I was just wondering what the rational was. It is to save money or wood?

 

[BWSmith]

It's both,money and wood.

The problem,and this will vary from site/circumstances to next......

Another way to look at the problem is it may never be at issue with you and yours.......next guy is visiting the emergency rm.


The problem is that a 2x4(or whatever the size,2x6,2x8,etc),on a building site.....is NOT always used in compression.Now exactly who/whom is responsible for the "O.K." on their proper orientation?The "boss" can not be around every situation where it's use/abuse can be determined or not.

Take something as benign as a simple brace.....this can be a temp or permenent.But braces can and do act in several directions.

Opinion;This is one of those situations where it sounds real good on paper.....but in practical terms,"may" create more problems than any original intent,has bennys.Bureaucracy(sp)and construction/building trades has never really meshed.

 

[cabinetman]

I don't see a real advantage to jointed studs, as studs are so cheap as it is. Maybe the pennies add up. I would guess local codes would determine where if anywhere they can be used.

.

 

[Brian T.]

Not a thing wrong with finger-jointed studs as far as simple mechanical properties are concerned.

I've left all the numbers behind. In my old dendrology lab, the students compared straight-cut and FJ 2x4 for compression, shear and burst. Danged if those joints weren't the best of the whole piece!
Better yet, with all the short pieces, their tendency to warp is very much reduced. That mechanical stress would add an additional and unnecessary load on the rest of the structure.
Plus, that 2x4 or 2x6 can be made in unlimited lengths, or whatever you need as one piece, say 36', without scabbing a bunch of regular bananas together.

I've used no more than 300 yds of FJ molding (3") which was painted. Must admit that stuff was like any good straight edge.

 

[TomC]

We're they used on load bearing walls? I helped Habitat for Humanity build several houses. I don't believe any of the internal walls were load bearing. We used trusses and they were capable of the full span of the house. In fact on one end of the house there was no support of the trusses except the external wall. We did frame all the wall like they were load bearing.
Tom

 

[Brian T.]

Ask Winton-Global. Except for the lab purposes, we couldn't waltz into a local lumberyard and buy FJ 2x4. It all got sold and shipped out of the country except for some great/custom lengths. They could and would make them knot-free if you had the $$.

Since the joints are stronger than the wood, using them in load-bearing walls & trusses would seem to be a safe bet. I did discover that the FJ 1x4 and 1x6 was being used in door frames in humid applications because of the very low warp/movement.

Most of the big stuff used in open areas in commercial buildings is engineered glue-lam. Some of it has to be 16" x 24" and 4 storeys tall.

 

[woodnthings]

nothing about finger joints here

I just saw a new house framing photo and ALL the studs were pieced together with short board’s spliced together.

The best way to add length to any board is to sister it with an adjoining board of the same dimension on one side OR two, one on each side. On site fabrication is done that way. Factory finger joints are done precisely with specialty machines and glue from clear stock and are as good as a long board which may have "faults".

Load bearing walls are where the loads are downward on vertical members. Trusses have some loads in compression and may have others in tension. A truss member in tension must rely on the joinery, usually a mechanical nail plate, for strength.

For example: http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/bridges/trussbridges.htm

 

[cabinetman]

I've had good and bad luck with FJ lumber. I don't remember seeing 2x4's that are FJ as a common sale item. But, for paint grade moulding it comes FJ'd all the time. When it breaks, it's at the joint.

.

 

[Sleeper]

We're they used on load bearing walls? I helped Habitat for Humanity build several houses. I don't believe any of the internal walls were load bearing. We used trusses and they were capable of the full span of the house. In fact on one end of the house there was no support of the trusses except the external wall. We did frame all the wall like they were load bearing.
Tom

I don't know if they were load bearing because the photo only showed wall framing of a 12 x 24ft room attached to a house. I don't know if it was a two story or not and it was not a garage.

 

[BWSmith]

The first incident we saw was when they first came out......they were indiscriminately used as "toe-bds" on sheething(roof) installs.Had some "oops" moments.It was funny because a cpl months later there was some OSHA warnings....that like usual,went unheeded.Then we started seeing tech sheets included with banded "hacks" of studs warning not to use them in a horizantal plane(and even here,theres more than one way to describe horiz).Which is when I started scratching my head wondering where the determination was coming from.

All things have a way of working out on a const job.Some good...some bad.What irks the livin snot out of me is being beta tested.Can site a dz or so instances that are a real blackeye to folks in the industry who "should" know better.....OSHA included.

Used in EXACTLY prescribed orientations,FJ "studs" are viable.......But,just like realestate prices,you have many different ways to look at it.Assessed value,Taxed price,then realtime worth.So what's 'sposed to happen and what actually happens with these studs is very much on a case to case matter.Leave one(or a whole hack)out in the weather and try testing one.....If I had to put a finger on exactly "why" they fail in side impacts is because of different expansion rates on the individual pcs within that one stud.

Another is when an electrician/plumber,HVAC tech drills right through a glue joint....heck,I can do this all day(poking fingers at potential "issues").It's funny...they made a big splash(ha) here when first coming out...then kinda slipped away?

 

[Tilaran]

Hahahahaha ! Exceptional-izzzm !
Jucking Funk.:furious:
First problem is a 2x4 isn't even a 2x4 :thumbdown:
I imagine they covered that with glued together Chinese pallet chips left over from the pallets used to send you semi-automatic potato peelers and shoes with L.E.D. lights built in. :laughing:
When the wind bloze ? :no:

 

[Tilaran]

Mine. 1/4 mile from the ocean. SW 174 street.Even the orchid house is standing.:thumbsup: Concrete telephone poles blown down.My cars flipped. The WIND blew down chainling fences. Not Debris. WIND !
The house ? Roof. Nada mas.I biult several on that street.Got lotsa hugs the following week. :cool2:
BTW If you live in Hurricane territory buy 1/16" Galv steel and use Redheads to mount it. Your masters feed you the garbage that Homeless Despot and Bloze rape you with.It'll fly. I used 1/2 ply garbage on that house and lost a bunch. It was Tapcon_ed on. They held. The "wood" didn't.It was replaced with the steel, as was the roof tile....which mortared the guys house behind me. More pretty garbage.

 

[Tilaran]

8 hours earlier :furious:

 

[Hammer1]

Finger jointed material has been around a long time. The FJ studs are something new They showed up around my area for a short time then disappeared. One of the more common uses for FJ stock has been exterior door jambs and 908 exterior trim on both doors and windows, applied by the manufacturers. What I've found over the years is that each piece that is finger jointed reacts to expansion or shrinking differently than the adjoining piece. After all, they are from different pieces of wood and mostly pieces of wood that have wild grain. This stuff couldn't be used in normal applications, it would be waste, otherwise. That difference in movement breaks the FJ glue lines. It also moves individual pieces so they are larger or smaller than pieces next to them. Essentially, over time, the assembly falls apart. Exterior FJ material allows water in when the joints break.

Some years ago I built a custom home for a customer. We needed 5/4" exterior trim, corner boards, custom window and door casings, facia and a skirt around the house before the clapboards. Wider 5/4" solid stock wasn't available. This was an expensive primed material and the salesman assured me it was top of the line and fully warranted, (PrimeLock ?, I forget). 5 years later, everything I said above started to happen. Individual pieces would swell next to adjoining pieces that didn't as much. Some individual pieces were rotting. The company went out of business, so much for a warranty. I should have known better. FJ materials are not going to stand up or maintain integrity over the years. They may test fine when new but down the road, it will fall apart, maybe not totally but enough so it would be very dangerous to use in structural situations.

 

[Sleeper]

BTW If you live in Hurricane territory buy 1/16" Galv steel and use Redheads to mount it. Your masters feed you the garbage that Homeless Despot and Bloze rape you with.It'll fly. I used 1/2 ply garbage on that house and lost a bunch. It was Tapcon_ed on. They held. The "wood" didn't.It was replaced with the steel, as was the roof tile....which mortared the guys house behind me. More pretty garbage.

I’m not an engineer but I heard that in earthquake country wood holds up best as long as proper metal earthquake brackets are used. Also there were a lot of changes made to how the walls were fastened to the foundation after a few big quakes.

I don’t believe Bottom plates can shot in with Ramset and there are restrictions with the use of Redheads at least in exterior walls, but someone else may know more about it then me. They found one big problem was that buildings with wall intact slid off the foundations after the fasteners sheared off.
I don’t know how the FG studs work here in earthquake country.

 

[Steve Neul]

Personally I wouldn't have the finger jointed studs for permanent construction. New they are just as good as a solid 2x4 however eventually the glue will fail and they will come apart. The person that inherits the house when it gets old will be plagued with opening up the walls to changing out the studs.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Personally I wouldn't have the finger jointed studs for permanent construction. New they are just as good as a solid 2x4 however eventually the glue will fail and they will come apart. The person that inherits the house when it gets old will be plagued with opening up the walls to changing out the studs.

Glue lam beams are everywhere today and we don't worry about the glue failing in those....

 

[cabinetman]

Glue lam beams are everywhere today and we don't worry about the glue failing in those....

Glue lams are different than finger jointed.

.