[Wood4Brains]

Anyone have experience making lese tenon joints with the Beadlock mortise jig:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18088&site=ROCKLER

I was looking to do some M&T joints for some upcoming projects for tables, but this jig seems like a pretty easy way to make lose tenon joints.

I don't have a table saw, nor do I have a mortising machine. but I do have a decent router mounted in a table that has 1/2 inch collet for cutting tenons, as well as a couple of japanese hand saws for cutting tenons. I have a plunge base for my router, too.

I don't have any mortising chisels either. And I don't have a drill press, only a hand drill.

Anyway, the hard part for me is cutting the mortises, so I thought the Beadlock jig would be a good way to do it.

 

[amckenzie4]

A few thoughts on the jig system...

1) This looks to me like a new take on dowel joinery, which isn't exactly the same as M&T. Maybe more like a Domino jig.

2) It uses custom stock for the dowels (like a bunch of dowels lined up next to each other), which means you're committing to buying fasteners from this company for as long as you want to do the jig.

3) It doesn't look like you can really use the jig for cutting square mortises unless you want to use it to guide your drill, then square all four sides of the mortises with a chisel.


Given all of that, I'd hesitate to buy the system. Here's what I'd recommend:

Option 1) Buy a mortise chisel. There are some Narex chisels at Lee Valley that are dirt cheap (by chisel standards) that I've seen a few good reviews of.

Option 2) Make your mortises with a bench chisel. I've done this in small stock (3/4" thickness) and it worked fine. One of the writers I trust says to always use a bench chisel. Another writer I trust says he's tried it and his bench chisels kept breaking. Your mileage may vary, but if you're cautious it should work until you can buy a dedicated mortise chisel.

Option 3) Use your router. I've seen dozens of jigs for cutting mortises with a plunge router. For a while it seemed like every issue of Shop Notes had one, and every second issue of Fine Woodworking. You'll still need to square the corners (or round the corners of the tenons), but that's not that hard with a bench chisel.


If it was me, and I had the money or didn't hate routers, I'd probably go with option 1 or 3. At the moment I don't have the money and I hate routers, so I'm going with option 2.

 

[tc65]

Andy just gave you an excellent summary of options, but I will throw in my $0.02 for what it's worth.

I've got a couple of the Narex mortise chisels and they are a great value for the money. You don't need to buy a set of them, just buy the one that fits your needs right now and buy more as the need arises.

If you don't want to invest in mortise chisels, use forstner bits to drill out the mortise and then use your bench chisels. I do this with a hand held drill as I don't have a drill press and it works just fine. If you are uncertain of drilling a perpendicular hole, use a smaller bit and do a little more chiseling.

Actually, use forstner bits to drill out the majority of waste even if you are going to use mortise chisels - it is much faster!

I don't have a setup to use a router for mortises, but if you are still going to have to chisel out corners, why not just use a forstner bit - it is quicker and you don't have to make/setup a jig.

 

[rrbrown]

A few thoughts on the jig system...

1) This looks to me like a new take on dowel joinery, which isn't exactly the same as M&T. Maybe more like a Domino jig.

2) It uses custom stock for the dowels (like a bunch of dowels lined up next to each other), which means you're committing to buying fasteners from this company for as long as you want to do the jig.

3) It doesn't look like you can really use the jig for cutting square mortises unless you want to use it to guide your drill, then square all four sides of the mortises with a chisel.


Given all of that, I'd hesitate to buy the system. Here's what I'd recommend:

Option 1) Buy a mortise chisel. There are some Narex chisels at Lee Valley that are dirt cheap (by chisel standards) that I've seen a few good reviews of.

Option 2) Make your mortises with a bench chisel. I've done this in small stock (3/4" thickness) and it worked fine. One of the writers I trust says to always use a bench chisel. Another writer I trust says he's tried it and his bench chisels kept breaking. Your mileage may vary, but if you're cautious it should work until you can buy a dedicated mortise chisel.

Option 3) Use your router. I've seen dozens of jigs for cutting mortises with a plunge router. For a while it seemed like every issue of Shop Notes had one, and every second issue of Fine Woodworking. You'll still need to square the corners (or round the corners of the tenons), but that's not that hard with a bench chisel.


If it was me, and I had the money or didn't hate routers, I'd probably go with option 1 or 3. At the moment I don't have the money and I hate routers, so I'm going with option 2.

Evidently you didn't watch or pay at tension to the video.

I agree about it looking more like a domino jig and that system is expensive. However you missed a few points that were important.

1) They offer a guide block and wide flat chisel to make it a regular square mortise if wanted.

2) Wile you can buy the tenon stock it's not all that expensive especially compared to the domino stock. However hey also offer router bits to cut your own stock.

Over all I don't think it's that bad of a system from what I can see.

Another option is to build a pantorouter which is probably what I would choose.

 

[Wood4Brains]

Thank you very much, Tim, Andy and Richard:

I think for now it might be better to do a combination of getting a decent mortise chisel, drilling or routing out the mortises then chiseling down to the line to square off.

I guess then the difficulty will be shaping the tenons with a router?

The pantorouter looks awesome, but it would require 1) me being capable to make it in the first place, and 2) me being capable to make the templates. I don't think I am up to either challenge.

 

[tc65]

I guess then the difficulty will be shaping the tenons with a router?

If it were me, I'd just cut the tenons with your Japanese saws and trim to fit with a chisel. It's a lot quicker than you might think cutting/trimming them by hand.:smile:

 

[Wood4Brains]

If it were me, I'd just cut the tenons with your Japanese saws and trim to fit with a chisel. It's a lot quicker than you might think cutting/trimming them by hand.

Yeah, I might end up doing that, although I might need to get a dozuki (Japanese Tenon Saw). While I am pretty capable at cutting shoulders though, my Ryoba is nice but it is probably not optimum for cutting cheeks in tenons.

 

[amckenzie4]

Evidently you didn't watch or pay at tension to the video.

I agree about it looking more like a domino jig and that system is expensive. However you missed a few points that were important.

1) They offer a guide block and wide flat chisel to make it a regular square mortise if wanted.

2) Wile you can buy the tenon stock it's not all that expensive especially compared to the domino stock. However hey also offer router bits to cut your own stock.

Over all I don't think it's that bad of a system from what I can see.

Another option is to build a pantorouter which is probably what I would choose.

You're right... I didn't even notice there WAS a video. Looked at the photos, read the description, and that was about it.

I do note now that the Pro version is the only one with the chisel guide, though if you mark well you really shouldn't need it after a little practice.

The availability of the guide and the router bit for making stock take away my biggest complaints about the system, but I'm still not convinced. But then, I'm not convinced about dowel or domino joinery either, so it may just be me.

 

[Wood4Brains]

Well, I think I am going to try and give using homemade jigs a shot first, just because I would like to have the sense of accomplishment that I hear other woodworkers feel when they accomplish something themselves (a sense that I am still hunting for).

> > > >

One more question:

I read in a Gary Rogowski book that using multiple smaller tenons could have more strength than using a single large tenon. If that is so, then would using several tight-fitting dowels be comparable (or better) than using a single (a little sloppy) tenon?

When I look at the Beadlock tenon jig, it basically "looks" like several dowel holes adjacent to one another. Will that actually be better than having the same amount of fluted dowels spaced slightly apart from one another?

And since that beadlock jig doesn't allow the use of a stop collar (instead you put duct tape on the bit and drill down to the tape), maybe it is better just to use dowels and a stop collar on your bit and drill them free hand???

A dowel kit (with a lock collar) from harbor freight is less than $4.

 

[woodnthings]

I was in the same predicament

I made my own version of a self-centering router base. Here's a totally simple one: http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/44118/self-centering-mortising-base-for-the-router

You just need to make stops on either end of your workpiece OR rout to a marked line. Also, you might want to add side piece the same height as the workpiece to increase stability, but leave gaps for the pins to travel fore and aft.

You either have to round off the ends of your tenons OR square up the ends of the mortises with this method OR use loose tenons already rounded over on the router table. Me, I just squared up the mortises.

 

[Wood4Brains]

>>>>

Also, the router bit for the Beadlock (in case you want to make your own tenons) is $52. While I wouldn't normally have a problem spending $52 on a router bit if I could get a LOT of use out of it, I am not so sure that I would get $52 worth of value from it...

After spending $30 on the basic jig, $18 on the 1/4" adapter kit, $27 on the 1/2 inch adapter kit, you are in the hole roughly $75.

Getting three different dowel kits from Harbor Freight would set you back $12.

 

[Wood4Brains]

Thank you, woodnthings:

The article you linked to explains how it works well.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Midlandbob]

If only a few then the chisels and table saw works well with a bit of practice.

 

[panhandler]

I have the beadlock basic and just used it to attach the apron the The legs of a table and it works beautifully. Easy to set up and make. However, if I had it to do again, I think I would have bought the pro model because of the versatility. The basic is very limited, even with the shims. I think down The road if I see the pro on a really good sale I'll upgrade then. The good news is that the 1/4 and 1/2 I think will work with it. I'll have to double check! Also, if I remember correctly, the pro has a chisel guide for making traditional motrises.

 

[Wood4Brains]

I think I am going to look into using dowels for thinner stock (up to one inch actual thickness) and router with jig moetises foe thicker stock.

From what i have researched, dowels have less chance of the wood itself cracking in thinner pieces than do M&T joints, and for thickee oiwces of wood the router might be moee viable than thw beadlock jig option.

 

[skyking]

I just cut my first practice MT through joint. I used a speedbit in the drill press (no forstners yet), bench chisels, and cleaned it up with a small wood file.
I cut the tenon using the miter guide on my table saw, used the dial caliper to measure the depth of cut and cleaned it up with the wood file. It is reasonably tight. I had to file it to fit.