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Shop Tools for Kitchen Cabinets?

6K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  justin2009 
#1 ·
My wife and I need new kitchen cabinets. We've priced and looked at new cabinets and both of us are not really into financing such a large amount, and we're not in a huge hurry to have a new kitchen. Cabinets we priced were anywhere from $15,000-25,000, and these were just basic semi-custom cabinets, not including countertops, which would be another 3-5k.

After finishing the bookshelves, she thinks we can build our own. I'm fairly certain we'll be ordering drawers and doors instead of making those, depending on how the drawers for the bottom of the bookshelf turn out (my ability to setup and run the dovetail jig)...

I have a variety of tools, but wanted to ask about cabinet making and the essentials. Here's what I think I'll need:

1) New table saw. The Ryobi contractor saw won't sit level on the wobbly legs and the measurements on the side are off by 3/8".

2) Dado set for table saw OR a straight bit that matches the thickness of the chinese plywood.

3) Good workbench. I found out through making the bookshelves that the surface you assemble your work on has to be very very flat, or things are harder to square and flush. I'll probably build the workbench.

4) Biscuit joiner or pocket screw jig for attaching face frames to cabinets...

Am I missing anything?

We have similar taste in cabinetry and are not looking for carved corbels or layers of fancy moulding. We intend to paint the cabinets and face frames (drawers and doors, too) and will only paint the insides of the cabinets that have glass doors. The rest of the insides will just be clear coated with poly or something similar.

Even counting for making a handful of mistakes, which I will, it seems like good 3/4" plywood is relatively inexpensive enough to make this a money saver...
 
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#2 ·
Assuming you have most of the basic hand, and hand power tools, a decent table saw and a good solid work bench should get you started. You will likely realise a need for some other tools as you progress, but they can wait until you get there. Don't be afraid to go looking for a used table saw if money is an issue. There are some excellent used machines out there, at greatly reduced from new prices.
If you don't have a good selection of clamps yet start looking for some. They are indispensible for cabinetry work.
Building cabinets can be challenging, but if you approach the job with patience and the willingness to learn you should be able to accomplish your project and save yourself a very large amount of cash in the process.
Besides, the satisfaction of being able to say "I built that" is quite incredible.

Gerry
 
#3 ·
First, I would find a good lumber yard and stay away from the Big Box plywood. The extremely thin veneer makes it hard to work with. For slightly more money, usually $5 to $10 a sheet more, you can get a much better product. You are painting them, so I wouldn't go overboard. It will save you a ton of time and headache. The big box stuff works well for shop cabinets.

I would get the best tablesaw you can reasonably afford. You don't need horsepower as much as mass. A good contractor or hybrid saw and some roller stands (infeed, outfeed, and possibly a helper or two on the side) will make the work easier and safer. I have changed my setup now, but used to use the Harbor Freight roller stands. I have gotten the 3-rollers for around $20. Get or build a zero-clearance insert and buy a good blade.

If your cabinets are pretty cookie-cutter, then I would get a good dado blade. I have gotten to where I prefer to use my router and a staightedge, but either works fine.

I would use both biscuits and pocket-holes. The combination gives you the best of both worlds, alignment and clamping.
 
#4 ·
I do have a good compound miter saw, and I've slowly been building up a collection of clamps. I have probably 4 one footers, 8 two-footers, two corner clamps, and two long pipe clampts. Have a decent circular saw and just bought a good small-toothed blade for ripping plywood with... ummm... have a decent set of chisels and planes that I am refurbishing/sharpening... Good drill and a drill press.

The only parts of the project that worry me to the point of not taking this on are:

1) mounting the drawer slides and door hardware and getting them in position correctly the first time.
2) installing them level and with correct spaces for sink, oven, and dishwasher.
 
#7 ·
Also consider, if you like the general layout of your existing cabinets, you can simply build new face frames, doors and drawers and use the existing boxes. You could also use the existing drawers and just add new drawer fronts. If the exposed sides of the existing boxes are painted and you, for example wanted stained oak, you can add 1/4" oak veneer to the sides and widen the face frame dimensions to cover the new veneer.

I've done this a number of times and the result was new cabinets. Plus, installation is a snap.
 
#8 ·
Mounting the slides is pretty easy. I use a jig that I build and story sticks. I think that Kreg makes a jig built just for that purpose.

The appliance cutouts can vary by manufacturer and model, and even then can require tweaking. It is best to either pick out or buy your appliances, and build the cabinet to suite. Sinks are generally a little more standard.

Leveling is another matter. Make sure to layout your room before you begin. For base cabinets, I like to use adjustable feet. For upper cabinets, use a french-cleat. It will make hanging much simpler.
 
#26 ·
Mounting the slides is pretty easy. I use a jig that I build and story sticks. I think that Kreg makes a jig built just for that purpose.
I'd like to second that!:thumbsup: Any time I can use a jig or a story pole especially for repetitive jobs such as cutting carcass parts,dadoes, and mounting drawer slides the fewer headaches I have and the more accurate my work becomes.:yes:
_________________________
Work to live, not live to work!
 
#9 ·
" 1) New table saw. The Ryobi contractor saw won't sit level on the wobbly legs and the measurements on the side are off by 3/8"."

I think that you probably do not need a new saw. With a little work you should be able to level the legs to the point that the saw is not wobbly. You may even have to replace the legs.

I assume that the measurements that you say are off 3/8" are those on the fence scale. I would never even consider using that scale. I use a measuring instrument to measure the distance between the blade and the fence at the front and back of the blade.

You say it is a contractor saw, so it should have the mass and basic capability to do the job.

" 2) installing them level and with correct spaces for sink, oven, and dishwasher."

A good two foot level is am important part of anybody's tool box. Getting the cabinets lever should be no problem. Spacing should also not be a problem. Just read your mearuring device more than once and then once again to be sure. Write down what you read and compare to what you want the space to be. Just be sure that you know what dish washer and oven/range you are going to install.

If you have a small space left over where the cabinets end near a wall or other barrier then use molding.

George
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all of the tips! I was unaware that there were jigs to help mounting drawers! I will definitely read up on that as it was a big worry before undertaing the project.

Unfortunately, Bradnailer, the cabinets are in a pretty sad state. The house was built in 1972 and the cabinets were originally in one configuration and then reworked to another configuration and a poor job was done. Insides of the shelves have been stained, then painted poorly, and then coated with paper lining. The existing configuration also has an wall oven which the wife doesn't like (and the oven is original to the house)...

She's a good cook and it's almost like a hobby for her (much to the detriment of my clothes fitting properly)... so I'd like her to have a nice kitchen. To me, nice cabinets can be very simple, and the countertops and fixtures have more to do with suiting our tastes than the cabinets themselves. I'd go with the cheapo stock cabinets, unfinished, and paint them, but I want plywood carcasses and dovetail drawers.
 
#11 ·
Might I suggest building a bake station (cabinet) one that has drawers lined with stainless steel. Most sink bases are 34 to 36 "s wide. Dish washers generally take up 24 and 1/8th"s wide. If you need help...we all can walk you through it if we have the basic wall deminnsions. Most electrical boxes can be relocated...check your plumbing! Rick
 
#16 ·
Justin,
Take a ride to the local big box store and take a pad and pencil and a digital camera. Go to the kitchen displays and take some measurements, notes, and pics of the different cabinets (sizewise) that you intend to use in your kitchen. No sense trying to reinvent the wheel. Don't worry about the drawer glides, they aren't that hard to install. It will take you longer to read the directions on the first one. Once you do that, the rest are a snap. I would consider using euro style hinges for your doors. If you get the good ones, they are adjustable side to side, up and down, and in and out. Makes the door hanging easy. They sell a simple jig for drilling the holes. The other thing you might consider is finding someone local that would be willing to help you install the cabinets. It's not really that hard, but there are a lot of little details to know to get them in right the first time and not run into problems. I use a simple laser to check the level of the floor for runout and the same with the ceilings before I start. Then I make a layout line across the wall for both the wall and base cabinets. Mark out the studs so you know what to attach to and then begin hanging the wall cabinets. I shim them and fasten right to the studs, but I have a cabinet jack that helps hold the cabinet up. I normally work by myself, unless my son is home from school. Good luck with your project. If you plan everything well up front, it should turn out fine in the end.
Mike Hawkins;)
 
#18 ·
Thanks again for all the kind advice! I bought a couple of books on cabinet design and construction to see the various ways that these are put together, to give the wife some choice in door and drawer styles. I think we want flush doors and drawers, which I think will be harder to get exactly right, but it's what the Mrs. wants and I like them, too. I may make up a practice carcass to work on sizing and installing drawers and doors.

But first, I think I'm going to build a workbench. Assembling the bookshelves on unlevel sawhorses (though I did try to level them) and sagging plywood wasn't ideal. Then I have to finish the drawers for the bookshelves, which will tell me whether or not I would like to attempt them for the kitchen. I figure after making 10 successful drawers for the bookshelves, I should be ready to make kitchen drawers or buy them!
 
#19 ·
There's LOTS of way to build your cabinets,and the method you choose will dictate the tools you need to accomplish the task. Myself, I'd ditch the dado set and get an "OFFSET - Tongue & Groove" cabinetmaking router bit set, along with a pockethole jig.

Marc Sommerfeld is probably best known for that bit set, but they are available from several sources. Marc's video explaining the use of the bits is very informative, although he is not much of a camera image kind of guy .. .. you have to look past some of his quirks to get the message, but he is right on.

WHere are you located ?? Chances are, someone on one of these forums is near you and might be willing to help out .. I know I would .. I really enjoy helping someone attain skills they want/need.

I can send you Marc's video if you think it might help .. lemme know .. ..
 
#20 ·
There's LOTS of way to build your cabinets,and the method you choose will dictate the tools you need to accomplish the task. Myself, I'd ditch the dado set and get an "OFFSET - Tongue & Groove" cabinetmaking router bit set, along with a pockethole jig.

Marc Sommerfeld is probably best known for that bit set, but they are available from several sources. Marc's video explaining the use of the bits is very informative, although he is not much of a camera image kind of guy .. .. you have to look past some of his quirks to get the message, but he is right on.

Where are you located ?? Chances are, someone on one of these forums is near you and might be willing to help out .. I know I would .. I really enjoy helping someone attain skills they want/need.

I can send you Marc's video if you think it might help .. lemme know .. ..
 
#22 ·
...
1) New table saw. The Ryobi contractor saw won't sit level on the wobbly legs and the measurements on the side are off by 3/8".
I am pretty sure I gave you the page # and all for instructions on setting up that TS correctly, but okay no problem. Check your local craigslist for at least a decent contractors saw. With the ecconomy in the toilet, there are a LOT of really nice saws on the cheap. I have seen Ridgid and Craftsman Emmerson built cast iron topped saws going for between $150.00 and $400.00 depending on condition, and the stupdity of the seller... You can get a LOT of saw for not a lot of money if you shop right. Be prepared to clean up a bit of surface rust and lube the snot out of it though...

2) Dado set for table saw OR a straight bit that matches the thickness of the chinese plywood.
My local Rockler has the Oshlun SDS 0630 6" dado stack on sale for under $50.00. This set leaves laser crisp dadoes in everything I have tried so far. The various size cutters, and nice set of shims make this a VERY flexible set. The 6" vs. 8" thing should really be a non issue. Are you going to be cutting 4" deep dadoes? Didn't think so... Check out the current Wood Magazine issue videos for a great video on setting up a stack dado.

3) Good workbench. I found out through making the bookshelves that the surface you assemble your work on has to be very very flat, or things are harder to square and flush. I'll probably build the workbench.
You have the right idea. MDF for all its faults is nice and dead flat. I would probably do something with MDF, topped with tempered hardboard so that you have a dead flat, and smooth work surface. If you are in a high humidity area, seal that MDF up...

4) Biscuit joiner or pocket screw jig for attaching face frames to cabinets...
Ryobi Biscuit Joiner gets great reviews from the press and owners, and it is only $99.00, a lot of users prefer a barrel handle over the D handle style of the Ryobi though. Put your hands on a few and see which one you like, and what fits your budget... I use mine, but it is probably one of the least used tools in my shop.


Am I missing anything?

We have similar taste in cabinetry and are not looking for carved corbels or layers of fancy moulding. We intend to paint the cabinets and face frames (drawers and doors, too) and will only paint the insides of the cabinets that have glass doors. The rest of the insides will just be clear coated with poly or something similar.

Even counting for making a handful of mistakes, which I will, it seems like good 3/4" plywood is relatively inexpensive enough to make this a money saver...
I guess it will all depend on how you intend to build your doors / drawer fronts. They will take something a bit more stout that biscuits to hold together. I would think a router, table, and a rail & stile bit set at a minimum. You will also want some sort of profile on your rails & stiles. Even if you are just doing a 1/4" roundover...

Let's see...

Sanders, clamps, and a fridge with plenty of beer. Can't keep making that mistake now can we?
 
#24 ·
I just built some drawers for a bed that i am building for my daughter. I found what they say is Baltic Birch plywood the nice thing about it, is it has seven plies and is a half inch thick. If you are careful with your dovetail jig it will make real nice drawers. I have also used 3/4 MDF for drawer and door fronts when they are going to be painted because it is cheap and readily takes designs from various router bits to dress up edges or perhaps make a decorative cut in the panel. I also use it for the top of my table saw output table. Rub in a little paste wax and it is ultra smooth.
 
#27 ·
Ok, here is some more food for thought, expanding on dbhost's reply. If you are under a time constraint and need to build a workbench right away how about this idea: Build a torsion box with a couple sheets of MDF and some rip stock of whatever you may have laying around. This type of a table will sit sit nicely on a couple of sawhorses and provide a fairly stout and flat surface. And if you have another pair of shorter saw horses then it will work as an assembly table for your cabinet project. Good luck with your project and if you get discouraged then just log on here as there are lots of great people with lots of great advice and they will guide you through the difficulties:smile:
 
#28 ·
Justin
WOW! Great question and great responses. Let's start at the beginning. Pick a wood..pine, red oak, birch/maple, or poplar a great wood for painted cabinets. If using a veener plywood, 1/2" thickness should suffice for all but the back which can be 1/4". A shelf span over 24" needs a support or it will sag in 1/2". Shelves will need to be edged in the appropriate wood with iron on, hot glue or yellow gled thin strips. Overlay doors with perimeter frames are the easiest. Pick a style, Shaker, bead mold, quater round, raised panel etc... For all but the raised panel you only need a router and a router table will serve you forever. I have purchased from Grizzley lately and I'm most satisfied with their quality, and delivery. You can get a lifetime table saw for around $1000. Don't forget to collect the dust, an over arm collection as well as off the bottom. Newer saws have a complete shroud around the blade and a collection port on the back. Look for that design. Next get about 6 folding sawhorses from HD at $35/per pair. Set up 3 tables using either solid core slab doors@ $90.00 or hollow core doors @ $40.00, 2 for in and out feed for the table saw and the 3rd(optional) for work bench and glue ups. I've used roller stands.... but they will tip over in the middle of a cut and it isn't pretty. I fitted masonite tops on my doors to protect and preserve them. Level and raise the doors by shimming between the top of the horses and the door to make a smooth and level outfeed table, Infeed not as critical. Make your rabbets for the backs with a dado set on the TS. Use the router and a guide for the dadoes for shelves and do multiple pieces at one time so all dadoes will line up. Build the upper cabinets first, they are smaller easier to manage and will give you confidence for the bases. Although any mistakes might show more. Measure 2x! Make a cut list or story stick, a long straight edge with the dimensions marked on in full scale. Be aware of standard dimensions for depths of kitchen @ 24" and heights @ 36". Don't forget toe kicks @ 3" x 4". Forget dovetails on drawers unless you like a time consuming challenge or unless the cook insists. They are not required for strength. Drawer fronts can be made from solid stock with routed edges. Simply screw them on from the back side and use longer screws for the pulls. Make spacer sticks for dimensions that are multiples such as drawer reveals and don't forget that doors and drawers should line up vertically when at all possible.
Overlay hinges @ 5/8" are $20.00 for 10 at HD. Require a Forstner bit 2 3/8 if I remember. or 35 mm. A jig or drill press is necessary for depth and accuracy. Jigs and fences will be necessary for multiple operations. label em save em. Pre drill pilot screw holes into hard woods for edge screws, to ease starting and prevent splitting. Sounds like you could spray paint the face frames and doors off the cabinets and clear coat the insides with poly. Maybe a clear coat of poly over the paint for durabilty? I don't know... finishing is now too hi tech for me. Good luck. Bill
 
#29 ·
Wow, that's a lot of great advice! Thanks! I've read through it twice now and I know as I begin to shop for tools, I'll be revisiting this thread often.

I made a bit of progress on the bench. I had some yellow pine in the garage that I ripped and glued up for the top of the bench. Given the state of the wood, which was leftovers from my pine floor installation, I had to trim off quite a bit. The glue up is roughly 3.5" thick, and after flattening, I expect the top to be about 3-3.25" thick. I used what I had laying around, and it got a lot of long, crooked boards out of my way. The top is now in two sections which I still need to glue up. Once the top is glued up, I'll snap a few photos. Bench top should end up 8' x 24" x 3" thick. I can't cut dovetails by hand or jig without a decent surface to work on! I've been bitten a bit by the hand tool bug and have purchased a few hand planes on the cheap which I've also started to restore.

I WILL be getting some power tools for the cabinets in the next few months. Cabinet completion date is hopefully this time next year as the wife and I aren't in a terrible hurry. Sooner would be better, but I don't want to rush and try to build them too fast.

Thanks again for all the advice, I think I need to read it all again a third time!
 
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