As I begin my search for my first table saw (I've been using a Shopsmith for almost 30 years) I see all the ads for the Sawstop and its safety. I've watched hot dogs being eased into the spinning blade to show the blade stopping, and even the video of the creator moving his finger into the blade all without a scratch. But what happens on this saw if my hand gets yanked into the blade? I find it hard to believe that if I drop a hot dog on the spinning blade it it wouldn't get nicked. Or if my hand gets pulled in when my push pad fails. Does anybody have an idea what might happen in an accident situation versus a very slow purposeful feed into the blade? I'm not trying to disparage the SS, just trying to truly understand its true safety in all situations. Thanks for your thoughts.
Sawstop safety
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There are more testimonials of people avoiding injury on sawstops than you could ever read all over the web.
The saw reacts so quickly that it isn't going to be able to "grab" your hand. I don't believe I've ever come across a negative review of the sawstop technology by anyone who actually uses them. The only negative reviews I've ever seen are by people who either complain about sawstops attempts to get the industry to adopt its technology or new equipment haters that don't like anything made overseas.
The saw reacts so quickly that it isn't going to be able to "grab" your hand. I don't believe I've ever come across a negative review of the sawstop technology by anyone who actually uses them. The only negative reviews I've ever seen are by people who either complain about sawstops attempts to get the industry to adopt its technology or new equipment haters that don't like anything made overseas.
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My question is, if you have all the necessary guards in place, ANY table saw is as safe as the next one. If a sharp spinny thing scares the crap out of you, there are two choices, Sawstop or find a new hobby.
I myself have wondered if the system works as the OP mentions. Somebody give it a try or call Mythbusters...........
I myself have wondered if the system works as the OP mentions. Somebody give it a try or call Mythbusters...........
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I've seen videos of sawstop saws being purposefully tripped. The blade does seem to withdraw faster than you would fall onto the blade if you were falling and landed on the saw. In the event of a kickback where your hand is thrown into the blade, I'm not convinced you wouldn't be uninjured, but I'm pretty sure the injury would be far less severe with a sawstop than with a non-sawstop table saw. I'll take a 1/4" deep cut and some stitches over a missing digit or two any day.
That being said, I'm one of those guys who doesn't like Sawstop because of its business practices and ethics more than anything else.
That being said, I'm one of those guys who doesn't like Sawstop because of its business practices and ethics more than anything else.
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I would agree that with the guards in place, almost any saw is as safe as any other....
But if a finger slips.....you accidentally don't realize your finger is there....ect....only a sawstop offers a last line of defense.
And believe it or not....there are guys on this board missing digits that had guards on saws.
But if a finger slips.....you accidentally don't realize your finger is there....ect....only a sawstop offers a last line of defense.
And believe it or not....there are guys on this board missing digits that had guards on saws.
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I must have missed those disclosures. Every time there was a discussion, I made a point of questioning the statistics of losses with the guard off. I don't remember responses affirming losses with the guard on. Like I said...maybe I just missed it.
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I don't disagree.....but I'd ask you this....what's your out of pocket max on your health insurance? If you ever have a table saw accident, you'll likely hit your out of pocket max within the first hour at the ER.....I'm guessing it's cheaper to buy the sawstop!!!ctwiggs1 said:
Also....to be fair....look under the table, the sawstop is built like a tank compared to the grizzly.
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I have not really looked at a sawstop up close.
And don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of what they're doing. I don't do this professionally though so it's hard to tell my wife that I need a $2000 saw that I'll only flip on a couple times a month. If I had my own shop and was doing this professionally, I'd likely have a saw stop.
Curtis
And don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of what they're doing. I don't do this professionally though so it's hard to tell my wife that I need a $2000 saw that I'll only flip on a couple times a month. If I had my own shop and was doing this professionally, I'd likely have a saw stop.
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They tried licensing their technology to the other saw manufacturers out there, no one was interested so they tried petitioning the government to make this type of technology mandatory. Many of the anti-government guys take this as an insult to the capitalistic system.
I for one think it's no different than airbags, seat belts, or helmet laws.
If you want a good laugh...go check out the Stephen Colbert piece on sawstop on you tube.
I for one think it's no different than airbags, seat belts, or helmet laws.
If you want a good laugh...go check out the Stephen Colbert piece on sawstop on you tube.
See that's a personal opinion.
He invented the technology and offered it to all manufacturer's but they turned him down thinking that collectively they stopped his idea. They claim it would raise the prices of a saw to much and price them out. In reality it would do that on your cheaper saws because his offer was based on all saws having the technology at an added cost of $150 per saw for retooling the manufacturing process and a 7% royalty on the wholesale cost of all saws made. This in my opinion is a fair offer. However critics pointed out immediately that the cheaper saws ($!50-$300) would be priced out of the market. There is doubt about if that level of saw could even be made with the technology. IDK but after they dismissed his idea he made his own SawStop brand and has been pushing to make it mandatory on all saws through government regulation.
As for there Quality and Customer service they are great. Most people that have a problem its with the forcing it on all saws issues. I can understand there point to a degree. The thing I can not understand is how one man with an idea became the bad guy and all the saw manufacturers are the victims. (The little guy is usually not the bad guy) They may have had legit reasons for turning his technology down or just like with Auto manufacturers they reject other things like hydrogen and or electric cars for decades because they did not want to change. With 37000 Saw accidents a year I think they would have tried to get something from the technology. They had decades to make saws safer but never did until forced by regulation. Riving knives and better guards that were not a PITA to remove when needed on certain cuts only came about with regulation or threat of regulation.
Those same critics get mad about him having all the patents for this type of technology locked up. He was by trade a Patent Attorney who wrote a unbreakable patent for his client which just happens to be himself in this case. These critics or upset about his patents but if it was there patent, I'm sure they would expect nothing but the same protection from there patent.
Make your own decision, My story was I didn't get it because I was confident that with my experience I would never need the technology. Saw cost $3000 I used half of that to get other tools and bought a Shop Fox equivalent Cabinet saw as well. However, my Hospital bill was $30k and I have 9 fingers to boot. My gut said by the damn saw because I really liked the quality and technology but I didn't listen.:thumbsup:
I sold my old saw and bought the SawStop afterwards. Just a little to late.
The SawStop works on electrical sensing. Your fingers and hot dogs send an immediate electrical conduction and the brake kicks in. A very fast action that touches the blade could result in a nick but that's about it, electricity is faster than you. The early SawStops had issues with green lumber kicking off the brake and metal objects, like foil covered sheet goods can still cause a trip. The main issue with SawStop is that it's a mechanical devise and it can be shut off. Mechanical devises are never 100% dependable. They don't work at all if turned off. If you run dado blades, you need to install a special cartridge. At this time, I'm not aware of a cartridge designed for molding heads. The cartridges are one time use, if they fire off, you need to buy a replacement in the $90 range. There may be damage to the blade that the brake engages. Haven't heard anything about damage to arbor bearings from the abrupt stop but most folks aren't going to be firing off the cartridges very often. All the safety issues regarding saw use still should be followed. The device will not prevent kick backs, debris flying at you or electrical shock.
Mr. Gass invented the braking system and tried to sell it to the saw manufacturers. They were not interested. It wasn't something that could be added to existing designs and would require a complete new design and tooling. He may have wanted too much money for his patent. In industry, OSHA has standards that apply to table saws which include guards, anti-kick back devises and most importantly, proper training of personnel. When he couldn't get the manufacturers to buy his technology, he lobbied to have it become a required standard for saws. He was not successful. Gass decided he would make his own saws. They are a top quality saw and the equal of the offerings of other cabinet saws on the market but they are the only ones with this braking system. Sort of like an air bag in your car. You never want to have to use it, it's expensive if it goes off but you might be real happy it's there if ever needed.
DIYers are on their own, not that some in industry aren't as well. There are a lot of businesses that don't follow OSHA standards, although, they are required by law. If a person is properly trained in saw operation, there should be no reason for their hands to be anywhere near a spinning blade. If guards are in place it would be difficult to contact the blade. If you follow the safety rules, there is no way you would slip or be performing any action that could bring your hands near the blade guard, let alone the blade. The problem is that many people using saws don't know or follow the rules. People don't regularly die from table saw injuries. If they did, things would be different. No safety devise is going to protect you from yourself.
If you want a very nice new saw and don't mind paying extra for the safety brake, the SawStop may be for you. Just because you have air bags in your car doesn't mean you can drive recklessly. Same with the SawStop. You hope the bag goes off if needed or the SawStop brake engages but it's not 100% guaranteed. I think it's a great addition to safety, just the same. Even under the best training, people are going to make mistakes and learning often takes place the hard way. It doesn't matter how many times you tell someone not to touch the burner on the stove, eventually, often accidentally, everyone learns it for themselves. I don't recommend learning the hard way on a saw. The cost can be a lot more than the cost of a SawStop.
Mr. Gass invented the braking system and tried to sell it to the saw manufacturers. They were not interested. It wasn't something that could be added to existing designs and would require a complete new design and tooling. He may have wanted too much money for his patent. In industry, OSHA has standards that apply to table saws which include guards, anti-kick back devises and most importantly, proper training of personnel. When he couldn't get the manufacturers to buy his technology, he lobbied to have it become a required standard for saws. He was not successful. Gass decided he would make his own saws. They are a top quality saw and the equal of the offerings of other cabinet saws on the market but they are the only ones with this braking system. Sort of like an air bag in your car. You never want to have to use it, it's expensive if it goes off but you might be real happy it's there if ever needed.
DIYers are on their own, not that some in industry aren't as well. There are a lot of businesses that don't follow OSHA standards, although, they are required by law. If a person is properly trained in saw operation, there should be no reason for their hands to be anywhere near a spinning blade. If guards are in place it would be difficult to contact the blade. If you follow the safety rules, there is no way you would slip or be performing any action that could bring your hands near the blade guard, let alone the blade. The problem is that many people using saws don't know or follow the rules. People don't regularly die from table saw injuries. If they did, things would be different. No safety devise is going to protect you from yourself.
If you want a very nice new saw and don't mind paying extra for the safety brake, the SawStop may be for you. Just because you have air bags in your car doesn't mean you can drive recklessly. Same with the SawStop. You hope the bag goes off if needed or the SawStop brake engages but it's not 100% guaranteed. I think it's a great addition to safety, just the same. Even under the best training, people are going to make mistakes and learning often takes place the hard way. It doesn't matter how many times you tell someone not to touch the burner on the stove, eventually, often accidentally, everyone learns it for themselves. I don't recommend learning the hard way on a saw. The cost can be a lot more than the cost of a SawStop.
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