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Discussion Starter #1
I have tried spraying a tinted clear, basically waterbased dyestain plus dye etc., with my 5 stage hvlp but got lap marks or too heavy of a spray in places and gave it up. I was over at a shop and talked to a guy who was spraying tinted conversion varnish which I have never used. He was using a toploader, hvlp using air, everytime I went buy and found him spraying--he is mostly a cabinet builder. I work in homes and do spray clear and sometimes paint on the kitchen cabinets. The guy at Sherwin Williams, who is not really a friendly guy, once told me to try a lacquer stain, what can you tell me about this process that will help me to move it into a house so as to spray the outer edges of the casing?

Thank you,

Bob:smile:
 

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I have tried spraying a tinted clear, basically waterbased dyestain plus dye etc., with my 5 stage hvlp but got lap marks or too heavy of a spray in places and gave it up. I was over at a shop and talked to a guy who was spraying tinted conversion varnish which I have never used. He was using a toploader, hvlp using air, everytime I went buy and found him spraying--he is mostly a cabinet builder. I work in homes and do spray clear and sometimes paint on the kitchen cabinets. The guy at Sherwin Williams, who is not really a friendly guy, once told me to try a lacquer stain, what can you tell me about this process that will help me to move it into a house so as to spray the outer edges of the casing?

Thank you,

Bob:smile:
When spraying something like that there isn't a lot of help you can get from equipment. It mainly just takes practice. When you spray anything but especially transparent color think of the way a roofer lays shingles. Each row overlaps the previous row half way. Its the same with spraying a row of finish. You aim the gun at the very edge of the previous row. Spraying dye is even harder. You spray it the same what but you can't see it. You have to pay attention to where the previous row was and don't even look at where you have been. It dries so fast that once dry it looks like there is nothing there and you feel like you should spray some more however if you do it will be too dark. You have to trust that you sprayed a uniform coat on. If you would use an alcohol based dye if you miss a spot, once the finish is scuff sanded you can spray some more dye between the coats of finish. I use Mohawk Finishing Products Ultra Penetrating Stain.
 

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I prefer not to use HVLP to spray dyes and tinted topcoats. I find it hard to see, and it's easy to get too much sprayed down. I like using a conventional siphon cup/gun, and the small detail guns to do tinting and toning. It takes experimenting with dyes and topcoats, and a lot of practice to keep it uniform.






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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I decided to go soak out this old tool I bought for drawing lines in the grooves--I found I could draw with a brush and wipe out faster, but it can but used with air as a shader but I tried it only once for a few minutes while trying to do something like this project ontop of one of these type cabinets, I thought I would be Ok by sanding hard and putting on the best General Finishes water top coat, but found out I had to brush on the glaze and then clearn coat a lot, and on one vanity I had to top it with oilbased poly to feel confident, it did look good, but now I think you have to sand and maybe prime with XIM clear if you are going to do that or just get really good with shading and have the right next coats and tools is you have to do it---or maybe give in to the refacers, which I someday plan to become too--someday. This little Italian gun comes with two needles and you take off the aircap on the front and use gravity to draw in the lines--its fast but too clean for some folks, and I am pretty sure I have the bigger needle. It might be too small to do a big job though, I think it is mostly for "effects" like a fade or something. I have a decent compressor, big tank, very noisy, and have sprayed outside furniture with a cheap HVLP top loader, but maybe a standard conventional will disperse tint more evenly. I will do a test. To me, who has never sprayed conversion varnish, but who has a little experience with the old stuff---spraying lacquer inside a house is tuff stuff. I tried it once, but would up switching to some Behlen and later Deft rattlecans. But a very controlled shader might come in handy somewhere, if you were not really good at blending out shades, with waterbase clear with some additives and a very soft "art" brush.

I wonder what would be the best way to bond directly onto that cabacrylic, I mean, I guess that is what it is. I see it on mostly natural toned fancy cabinets in really nice homes. If you could figure out what to spray right on them, or what barrier coat--maybe vinyl sealer or SealCoat or maybe lacquer primer (but which one) you have a fair chance of getting it done without much in the way of stripping. Do you have any suggestions or experience with bonding onto sealed clears on a natural finish?
 

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If you know it's lacquer that you plan to paint over then it would be better to topcoat it with a pigmented lacquer paint. If you plan to put another type of paint over it I would scuff sand it and prime it with a lacquer primer such as Bushwacker white lacquer primer. Then you could even put latex on it if you choose to.

If you don't know if it's lacquer or not then put a small amount of lacquer thinner on the finish and see if it melts or lifts the finish. If it melts it should be at least lacquer compatable. If it does nothing then it's probably a conversion varnish which I would topcoat with an oil based enamel.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hmmmm---I didn't try any lacquer thinner on it, but even paint stripper doesn't do much. Assumming it is Conversion Varnish do you think clear XIM might stick? Then you could shade it maybe? Or if you have great long time skills that you might tone it with some tinted conversion lacquer? What do you think of Sherwin Williams s water lacquer---I think they call it Chem Aqua?
 

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Hmmmm---I didn't try any lacquer thinner on it, but even paint stripper doesn't do much. Assumming it is Conversion Varnish do you think clear XIM might stick? Then you could shade it maybe? Or if you have great long time skills that you might tone it with some tinted conversion lacquer? What do you think of Sherwin Williams s water lacquer---I think they call it Chem Aqua?
The XIM should adhere but you should scuff sand the existing finish with 220 grip paper first. As far as tinting, I would be inclined to mix some pigmented XIM with the clear XIM. Just don't put the tinted finish on too thick or it will look painted.

I don't care for any water based lacquer. It's inferior to it's solvent based counterpart and much more labor intensive to apply.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
XIM etc

I didn't know you could tint XIM but I bet it could be tinted a little---that stuff sticks to a lot and I am pretty sure even the clear will act as a barrier---I had to spray some SealCoat recently to isolate a coating that had problems, nice stuff and I know you can tint it, but I am not so sure it would be strong enough to bond to old scuffed conversion varnish.


I looked it up, sure can, not that I ever doubted you ; ), but it seems to point out it is for alkyd, but I think it might be Ok --I don't suppose you would use it and then seal coat it, but I imagine that if you scuffed it good you could use something like General Finishes water clears.
 

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I didn't know you could tint XIM but I bet it could be tinted a little---that stuff sticks to a lot and I am pretty sure even the clear will act as a barrier---I had to spray some SealCoat recently to isolate a coating that had problems, nice stuff and I know you can tint it, but I am not so sure it would be strong enough to bond to old scuffed conversion varnish.


I looked it up, sure can, not that I ever doubted you ; ), but it seems to point out it is for alkyd, but I think it might be Ok --I don't suppose you would use it and then seal coat it, but I imagine that if you scuffed it good you could use something like General Finishes water clears.
It's an alkyd but it's catalyzed. I don't know what the specific catalyst is but most finishes that are two part are dangerous so you probably should spray it in a spray booth or get an air supplied respirator. The catalyst you especially need to look out for is isocyanate. This stuff is really bad and even spraying a gallon or two can put a major hurt on your health even if you wear a paint respirator. I know this from first hand experience. With all the hundreds of gallons of paint I've sprayed over the years that didn't hurt me, I painted one tractor with Dupont Nason paint and caughed for six months.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
health warnings

I used to spray bathtubs with stuff so toxic that they sent me a big stack of documents saying what they were not responsible for . I still have this machine in the attic which brings fresh air to a half face mask. I suspect the isocycarates added to my need for cataract surgery.

But I also located a great vidieo for using my English made cabinet strippers, I have the rosewood handled burr bender or whatever, so I am thinking more about doing stripping as a side service. But I recall hearing from a man whose wife had died from drowning in her blood or something who only stripped wood for 3 years....
 
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