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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Woodress, I will experiment with the CA glue.

CabinetMan, I did try sanding the end grain in steps from 100 grit to 600 grit and spraying it with sanding sealer and it turned out fairly good although it's still a little darker. Besides that, as an FYI, I also noticed the sanding direction made a difference.

Also, I'm curious why you recommend using a solvent base grain filler. I ask because I've already bought a water base grain filler.

Chemmy, I am looking for the end grain to match the face grain and I don't feel comfortable about using a veneer on it because o the 1/4" radius edges.

In one post you mentioned using a lightener. I'm assuming you mean it would be applied to the end grain only. Right?

Also, what type of product would you recommend for the lightening?

Back to the Tear Outs: I have two different types. One type is small tear outs about the size of and 1/8" square and smaller and about 1/64 deep. The other type, which there is only one, has a surface area about equal to that of a dime and it is tapered from zero inch to an 1/8" deep at its center (like a valley).

Since I last posted, outside of Woodress, I don't think anyone mentioned fixing the tear outs so I'm still hoping for help on that. I did think about using a dutchman on the big tear out, but because of grain and wood color differences I think it will be too noticeable.

If anyone has suggestions on repairing these tear outs it will be appreciated.

Thanks again ..... Bud
 

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CabinetMan, I did try sanding the end grain in steps from 100 grit to 600 grit and spraying it with sanding sealer and it turned out fairly good although it's still a little darker. Besides that, as an FYI, I also noticed the sanding direction made a difference.
Sanding cross grain is a no-no. As you probably found out it isn't easy doing it right, and to the extent it would need. That's why most try to find an easy fix.

Also, I'm curious why you recommend using a solvent base grain filler. I ask because I've already bought a water base grain filler.
It doesn't raise the grain, and it has a longer working time.

Back to the Tear Outs: I have two different types. One type is small tear outs about the size of and 1/8" square and smaller and about 1/64 deep. The other type, which there is only one, has a surface area about equal to that of a dime and it is tapered from zero inch to an 1/8" deep at its center (like a valley).

Since I last posted, outside of Woodress, I don't think anyone mentioned fixing the tear outs so I'm still hoping for help on that. I did think about using a dutchman on the big tear out, but because of grain and wood color differences I think it will be too noticeable.

If anyone has suggestions on repairing these tear outs it will be appreciated.

Thanks again ..... Bud
Can you post pictures?






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Woodress, I will experiment with the CA glue.

CabinetMan, I did try sanding the end grain in steps from 100 grit to 600 grit and spraying it with sanding sealer and it turned out fairly good although it's still a little darker. Besides that, as an FYI, I also noticed the sanding direction made a difference.

Also, I'm curious why you recommend using a solvent base grain filler. I ask because I've already bought a water base grain filler.

Chemmy, I am looking for the end grain to match the face grain and I don't feel comfortable about using a veneer on it because o the 1/4" radius edges.

In one post you mentioned using a lightener. I'm assuming you mean it would be applied to the end grain only. Right?

Also, what type of product would you recommend for the lightening?

Back to the Tear Outs: I have two different types. One type is small tear outs about the size of and 1/8" square and smaller and about 1/64 deep. The other type, which there is only one, has a surface area about equal to that of a dime and it is tapered from zero inch to an 1/8" deep at its center (like a valley).

Since I last posted, outside of Woodress, I don't think anyone mentioned fixing the tear outs so I'm still hoping for help on that. I did think about using a dutchman on the big tear out, but because of grain and wood color differences I think it will be too noticeable.

If anyone has suggestions on repairing these tear outs it will be appreciated.

Thanks again ..... Bud
Hi Bud, Ok, now i know my guess was correct, at least for you, i will wait on woodress to reply also. The reason i had mentioned the PP and hypo method was because it is useful for exactly what your looking for. That said, you could use two part bleach, A/B type, but that will probably make it much lighter than you need. since i don't know for sure, and you have posted no pics to see, I'm only presuming that it's as dark as most mahogany. So let me suggest, since you do not want to use my first offer, that you apply the 2 part bleach and when applying the 2nd part [hydrogen peroxide] let set for like 1-2 minute and then wipe off the excess and then wipe with clean water and let dry and test [on "samples!!] as to the lightness of the color. If necessary repeat again to lighten more, though i don't think it will be necessary, ok?

Yes, the easiest way to accomplish this is to mask off around the face grain edge by using clear sealer to first sealing an inch or so of the face surface. this will stop the bleach from lightning the top surface. This then can be followed by removal of the sealer and re sanding before staining the rest of the piece.

One final note: I've only known a few people in my whole career that actually would take the time to do this kind of thing ok? Personally I would live with the differences in dark/light unless i had a customer that was demanding such, and willing to pay for all the extra time involved. It may serve you well to find a high end furniture store and look at their offering in like wood, and ask them if the color is available with the edges being the same color on edge and flat grain surfaces, I'm sure the answer would be "no" with possible explanations to follow.:yes:
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Unfortunately I don't have the bench here, but the attached picture showing tear outs gives you an idea of the two different types of tear outs I'm dealing with
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Discussion Starter #25
I need to get back to you tomorrow. I'll attach a picture of the end grain so you can see it.

Thanks.
 

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Shane122: Great info on wood filler and wood grain. I agree with them being the the "New kid on the block" between that and things getting lost in translation it gets a bit confusing. So Thank you:thumbsup:

Chemmy: Thank you for your info. I'm not actually "in" a project. I'm doing a plan through. Planning backwards pretty much, so I don't regret later not doing so. Experience is another word for trial an error in my dictionary. Just learning a new lingo language that varies by location in the world isn't new to me... but takes time. Regulating the co. :blink: making products would be a welcome thing in more ways than one.By the way....in my opinion. From your other post about how you give info. 1st... I'm putting this here because I've read this thread for sometime now and I know you'll get this because of the dedication I know you have to help people. I find it impossible to know how something comes across, how people take it ext... why this is the 2nd forum I've ever posted in. So be who you are... I know by the time your thought has gone from your brain to your finger tips there's a lot of love/compassion added to it, and it shows. But if you occasionally hear a come again, or huh? Don't worry we're all just wanting a piece of your brain. LOL :laughing:
 

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Chemmy... oh and by doing a plan through I've already decided to change wood from a Red Oak to an exotic like lace or leopardwood. It might just be a pencil holders.... but it's gonna be pretty pencil holders.:yes:
Sorry it took me awhile to get back... It was a jig making day... and they turned out great!
 

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I just did a grain fill on a QSWO project. For the flat surfaces I was able to use a product from ML Campbell called Level Sealer. It is a spray on coating that you do multiple coats and then sand down. If you are doing this as a natural finish (no stain) it would work well. Using a stain makes it a bit more complicated.

For the other areas of my project I used Elmer's Wood Putty. This worked out pretty well. It took stain very well. I was using a dark stain so I can't be sure how it would work on a lighter stain. It wouldn't work on a natural Sapele project.

This is the result using the Level Sealer.
 

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Shane122: Great info on wood filler and wood grain. I agree with them being the the "New kid on the block" between that and things getting lost in translation it gets a bit confusing. So Thank you:thumbsup:

Chemmy: Thank you for your info. I'm not actually "in" a project. I'm doing a plan through. Planning backwards pretty much, so I don't regret later not doing so. Experience is another word for trial an error in my dictionary. Just learning a new lingo language that varies by location in the world isn't new to me... but takes time. Regulating the co. :blink: making products would be a welcome thing in more ways than one.By the way....in my opinion. From your other post about how you give info. 1st... I'm putting this here because I've read this thread for sometime now and I know you'll get this because of the dedication I know you have to help people. I find it impossible to know how something comes across, how people take it ext... why this is the 2nd forum I've ever posted in. So be who you are... I know by the time your thought has gone from your brain to your finger tips there's a lot of love/compassion added to it, and it shows. But if you occasionally hear a come again, or huh? Don't worry we're all just wanting a piece of your brain. LOL :laughing:
My pleasure.:yes:
 

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I just did a grain fill on a QSWO project. For the flat surfaces I was able to use a product from ML Campbell called Level Sealer. It is a spray on coating that you do multiple coats and then sand down. If you are doing this as a natural finish (no stain) it would work well. Using a stain makes it a bit more complicated.

For the other areas of my project I used Elmer's Wood Putty. This worked out pretty well. It took stain very well. I was using a dark stain so I can't be sure how it would work on a lighter stain. It wouldn't work on a natural Sapele project.

This is the result using the Level Sealer.
nice look C'man
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Chemmy

I posted the picture of similar tear out right after you posted your message to me yesterday. Any suggestions on what I can do about the tear out?

Here is a picture of the end grain that has one coat of sanding sealer sprayed on it. There is a little more contrast that what the picture shows, but it is close in appearance to what the darkness actually looks like.

As for the left side/edge showing in the picture, it is dark like the end grain because it hasn't been sanded and seal. If it had been sanded and sealed it would match the color of the top (face grain).

Chemmy, I don't know what A/B Bleach is. Can you tell me what it is?

You said, "that you apply the 2 part bleach and when applying the 2nd part [hydrogen peroxide] let set for .......). I don't understand what's being said here. It's mainly the hydrogen peroxide coming into play that I don't understand. Especially when I don't understand what A/B bleach is.

Your procedure of sealing and masking makes perfect sense (the whole paragraph).

Yes, I am a perfectionist to the point that you could say that I'm anal when it comes to things like this. That's always been a problem that's cost me time, which would lead to stress. Now that I'm retired I doubt that I will ever change:yes:

Again, thanks for your help. It is turely appreciated.


 

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I posted the picture of similar tear out right after you posted your message to me yesterday. Any suggestions on what I can do about the tear out?

Here is a picture of the end grain that has one coat of sanding sealer sprayed on it. There is a little more contrast that what the picture shows, but it is close in appearance to what the darkness actually looks like.

As for the left side/edge showing in the picture, it is dark like the end grain because it hasn't been sanded and seal. If it had been sanded and sealed it would match the color of the top (face grain).

Chemmy, I don't know what A/B Bleach is. Can you tell me what it is?

You said, "that you apply the 2 part bleach and when applying the 2nd part [hydrogen peroxide] let set for .......). I don't understand what's being said here. It's mainly the hydrogen peroxide coming into play that I don't understand. Especially when I don't understand what A/B bleach is.

Your procedure of sealing and masking makes perfect sense (the whole paragraph).

Yes, I am a perfectionist to the point that you could say that I'm anal when it comes to things like this. That's always been a problem that's cost me time, which would lead to stress. Now that I'm retired I doubt that I will ever change:yes:

Again, thanks for your help. It is turely appreciated.



Hi Bud, sorry for the confusion, i apologize.

2 part bleach is a bleaching system that consist of part A [sodium hydroxide] and part B [ hydrogen peroxide]. sodium hydroxide has the more common name of "lye" a very caustic material so use with care ok? the hydrogen peroxide is like that you would find in the drug store, only instead of a 3% solution, it is a 35% solution, very powerful oxidizer, will turn your skin white and bubble it if not removed pretty quickly, so wear gloves, eye protection, when using both and other protective clothing to. It's a standard in the industry so just be careful and you'll be alright. There should also be a small container of neutrlizer which is no more than common 5% vinegar, in case it does not come with it. that will be your last step before washing off with clear water. apply it once let dry and then wipe with a water rag to remove it. it is necessary to use to neutralize the lye ok? Donot use the vinegar until you have reached the lightness that when colored will match the face ok?

I'm not active in the business anymore so i cant off the top of my head tell you where it's readily available, but I'm sure c'man and others can help there.

You can mix the two together as per product instructions [easiest] for a one step application and since you have not used it before i will say go with that. apply as already suggested and then remove with another wet water cloth after it sits for a few minutes followed by a dry cloth to go over it to remove any residual wetness ok?

Let dry and then re-wet with water and view how much it has lightened, if still to dark - repeat the process until it is, ok? once your satisfied with that stage of the sample, then apply your color diluted by 50% to see how it looks compared to the flat grain ok? If that's to light then reapply as needed, or if to dark, then dilute the stain more.

It will probably take you a few tries on samples to get it where you want ok? I would suggest you do just a 3-6" inch section of them at a time till you get it where you need it ok?
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Got it, but

Chemmy, thanks again for the end grain advice. I now understand the bleaching procedure:smile:

Only thing left now is dealing with the tear out (see picture above) and then I'll quit pestering you guys.

Thanks ..... Bud
 

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Back to the Tear Outs: I have two different types. One type is small tear outs about the size of and 1/8" square and smaller and about 1/64 deep. The other type, which there is only one, has a surface area about equal to that of a dime and it is tapered from zero inch to an 1/8" deep at its center (like a valley).

Since I last posted, outside of Woodress, I don't think anyone mentioned fixing the tear outs so I'm still hoping for help on that. I did think about using a dutchman on the big tear out, but because of grain and wood color differences I think it will be too noticeable.

If anyone has suggestions on repairing these tear outs it will be appreciated.

Thanks again ..... Bud
Once you get them, dealing with the fix can be a problem, as most repairs will show. If they are from a planer or jointer, you may need to use a leader/follower stock. If from a handplane it's likely that it's not sharp enough, or your technique.

Since the coloring and grain at your tear outs are so uniform, you might whittle a piece of the same stock to fit like a puzzle. If you had some grain differential it may be less noticeable. I've cut a pattern out in the shape of the grain movement, and picked a section of like wood to closely look like the area, and inlay a patch section of veneer with a free form shape to follow.






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Discussion Starter #37
Bummer

Cabinetman, I was afraid there wouldn't be an easy fix. I had thought about doing what you suggested, which I call a dutchman, but there are too many small tear outs. However, I may try it on the one large tear out. For the small tear outs I have some Famowood Wood Filler that's pretty close in color to the wood so I think I'll go with that.

Thanks for your help.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
I want to thank everyone who helped me with my project. Especially Chemmy and Cabinetman. This thread has taught me so much about wood grain fillers, sanding sealers, and finishing techniques plus many other things. This thread should be called "Wood Finishing 101". I am going to cut and paste this entire thread into a word document for future reference because it's been so helpful.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Personally if it were me i would just cut it off, laminate another piece on bring back into dimension using a table sander [no tear-outs]- lot easier to color in a glue line than making a dutchman dissappear.

BTWTHDIKnow
 
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