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where's my table saw?
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I found it necessary to smooth out a scaffold plank that I needed to rip and reglue together because of a catastrophic failure on another one up 2 levels,and I didn't trust this one which had a large crack down the center. After straight lining and gluing the 3 pieces back together it wasn't as smooth as I wanted it, good enough for scaffolding but not for me.
So, I got out the cheapest hand plane I own, previously setup and sharpened to my satisfaction and after a few passes, decided to turn it around and pull it towards me. What a difference! I could control it much better, and stop the movement by lifting up closer to my body where there's greater leverage. The Japanese wooden body planes are meant to be pulled also. It always gets down to the physics, and I believe that the forces are in your favor when you are pulling, at least on a plane with a short ...10" sole. I frequently pull my low angle Stanley plane for chamfering edges.

Has anyone else discovered this method of using the English style planes? The blade is not "user friendly" for a hand grip, but the knob on the front is fine.
 

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Wood carvers using crooked knives commonly use pull strokes for more control.
I use 9 of that blade style, various sweeps. A push stroke is possible but nearly
uncontrollable = wild.

The other thing that I see you doing is skewing the plane. I know that the effect
is to reduce the apparent attack angle of the bevel to the wood = makes life easier.
Same for skew chisels, I use 6 of those in a fist-grip, pull strokes again.
 

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Other than with a block plane like you mentioned, I've not tried using a pull stroke - but I will give it a try next time I'm in the shop.

I almost always plane at a skewed angle - with the exception of my shoulder plane ;)
 

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I have tried it a long time ago, did not like the feel, perhaps since the plane was not designed to hold for a pull stroke.

I also have a pull-stroke hand saw, which I also do not like. Something about muscle memory makes me feel a push stroke works better for me than a pull stroke.

I think it is personal preference. I know many people love their pull saws.
 

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Pain in the A$$
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For curiosity sake, is that a standard 2x12 plank, or are you using approved laminated scaffold planks for the scaffold?
 

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where's my table saw?
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I decline to answer on the grounds...

It may not be approved. I usually place a sheet of plywood on top of the planks to distribute the load. The plank that failed was Pine, all the others are Fir which is stronger. The failed plank had 3 knots in a row across the width.... :thumbdown: I'll knot be using any Pine planks in the future.

Good observation and you must have some scaffold experience yourself. :laughing: It's way better than a 40 ft ladder in my case. It takes 2 of us about 1 hr to set up and then it's safe, won't tip and is fastened to the siding. We can reach all the way from the top down without a shift.
 

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When I was taught to use a plane the person I learned from said that when one encounters grain changes to swing the plane and pull until the grain changes again. I guess I've always just thought of it as everyday procedure.
 

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where's my table saw?
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
that's a solution to 2 way grain direction

My "revelation" came on a straight grained plank. I just found it easier to control, drawing/pulling gives me more power than pushing, since I could brace the board against my hip and pull the plane in towards me. When pushing, you have no foot "brace" to push off of and you are relying of the grip of your shoes on the floor. My floors are painted plywood and a bit slippery, so pulling give me a better stroke.

I have always enjoyed watching the Japanese pull planes "at work", I just never though to try it with my Stanleys.
 

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Pain in the A$$
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woodnthings said:
It may not be approved. I usually place a sheet of plywood on top of the planks to distribute the load. the plank that failed was Pine, all the others are Fir which is stronger. The failed plank had 3 knot in a row across the width.... :thumbdown: Good observation and you must have some scaffold experience yourself. :laughing: It's way better than a 40 ft ladder in my case. It takes 2 of us about 1 hr to set up and then it's safe, won't tip and is fastened to the siding. We can reach all the way from the top down without a shift.
I wasn't trying to be an a$$ or anything, so I hope you didn't take it that way. I've been a safety guy for about 24 years and I've inspected a few scaffold setups...LOL. For the record, using plywood doesn't meet the rules either as you can't inspect the planks daily as required if they are covered. That's not to say I haven't seen them used. Personally, I'm a fan of good quality laminated scaffold planks. But depending on the span, 2x12s can fit the bill in a pinch. I'm just saying it could get expensive if OSHA sees it... ;)

Mark
 

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where's my table saw?
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
a little side track here, but who cares?

I wasn't trying to be an a$$ or anything, so I hope you didn't take it that way. I've been a safety guy for about 24 years and I've inspected a few scaffold setups...LOL. For the record, using plywood doesn't meet the rules either as you can't inspect the planks daily as required if they are covered. That's not to say I haven't seen them used. Personally, I'm a fan of good quality laminated scaffold planks. But depending on the span, 2x12s can fit the bill in a pinch. I'm just saying it could get expensive if OSHA sees it... ;) Mark
If OSHA ever comes out in the woods to my house, they better bring their A game. My son, my prized "possesion" and I are they only ones allowed up there, so I have no fear of the govmnt showing up.
Another solution is to screw a 10" wide center plywood "brace" across all the planks. This would transfer any load from a single plank to the two adjoining planks, dividing it into 3 lighter forces.
I just might do this, since it won't take long, I have the plywood and I also am a safety conscious individual. I do appreciate your concern and your comment. :yes:
 

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Wood Snob
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I do pull the block plane a lot on end grain. Haven't tried it with some of the others.

I felt very comfortable from the start with a Japanese saw and it seems to make more since if you like thin kerf cuts. I can cut with my left hand or right hand equally well. I think it's because I use one saw with both hands on large aggressive cuts.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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Here's one that do both

This is what we call an "ox-plane". It's supposed to be operated by two men, one pushing, one pulling.
It was used for planing long boards, frequently used in boatbuilding when making boat boards.
The board is laid on two low sawhorses and the operators are sitting on the board facing each other with the plane between them.

Model aircraft Vehicle Wing
 

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where's my table saw?
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
just when you think you've seen everything along comes....

A push pull plane. :eek: That's cool. Timber framers have probably thought of just about everything needed to make their work easier.
Oxplane, you have to be as strong as an ox to use it. :yes:
 

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If you're pulling a Stanley or whatever style plane with the round tote on front:


Don't put your hand on top of the front tote,like you do when you're planing in the "right" direction.

If you're R handed.....your "weak" hand is on top when going the right way.When you go backwards,your strong hand is the one "pulling".You lose control when pulling when the stronghand is on top.Hook it around and pull with fr tote.

The same thing happens with block planes.....use your little finger(and ring finger)to catch and pull the fr tote.

Try it both ways.Most folks mess up the down pressure when going backwards.....part of it is stronghand vs weakhand...but it also enters into R brian L brain.It is a skillset that you'd better become dang profficient at if you're in a real joiner's shop.Heck,you can change the dynamics of a plane with where you place your pressure point on rr tote when going in the "right" direction........

Its the whole "driving your car" thing.Most folks nowadays,regardless of what smack they're talkin just don't have enough miles on a handplane.The nuances come with time behind the wheel....not from watching vids on you tube.Or having the latest 300$ custom plane.Runnin backwards with a benchplane is S.O.P. in a real WW shop.Cheers,BW
 

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Wood Snob
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BW
While driving my car (plane). I can look back many times and admit, back then I didn't know duke. Practice makes better?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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where's my table saw?
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31,249 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Its the whole "driving your car" thing.Most folks nowadays,regardless of what smack they're talkin just don't have enough miles on a handplane.The nuances come with time behind the wheel....not from watching vids on you tube.Or having the latest 300$ custom plane.Runnin backwards with a benchplane is S.O.P. in a real WW shop.Cheers,BW
Just like runnin' backwards with a circ saw is to a house framer....

I've decided that I will use either method/direction depending...... My strong hand, my right, has more control in either direction. It's just easier to pull the plane depending on where the material is and what direction the grain is and at what height. The human factors of muscle strength, weight, pressure, control etc all come into play.

I'm a fair "backer upper" if I use my mirrors on the pickup, rather than looking over my shoulder... I can't see out the back window anyhow. Lot's of practice doing that. I suck with a trailer though. :thumbdown:
 
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