Woodworking Talk banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
This wasn't a paint Store guy, .he is one of the techs who developes the paint and finishes. We spray...

Everybody here has to adapt finishes to his/her equipment. Unlike work I don't have booths so I adapt what works. The tech sheets are the basics for there finish in a perfect environment. ..After that you do what you have too..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
This wasn't a paint Store guy, .he is one of the techs who developes the paint and finishes. We spray...
Just curious, are you purchasing from one of the SW retail outlets?

They don't carry any of the industrial finishes we use. We have to order from 105 miles away, their industrial division and they deliver. It is a real pain when we need to color match.

We rate their finishes #3, there are two manufacturers both with the good stuff, one more expensive 2K urethane, superb, the other is the same products, same prices, but performs better.
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
No the industrial commercial store is separate from retail. It's were everyone that's not residential goes... if I order something special it comes from St Louis. To the residential store or I can drive to the commercial store..

When I worked at Jakobe, it was delivered, but we were doing 10 mil a year...

But I'm glad I'm out of it now, I get to be on the outside looking in now...:sneaky:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
Not a good idea to thin any of these products beyond 10%, it affects the sheen and the durability. Best is to spray it without thinning and learning how to set up being able to do that.
I use Lenmar conversion varnish for a clear finish, I was only referring to the Sherwin Williams to dis miss that broad general statement of 10% max. for any of CV finishes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
I use Lenmar conversion varnish for a clear finish, I was only referring to the Sherwin Williams to dis miss that broad general statement of 10% max. for any of CV finishes.
Lenmar Megavar is our favorite clear finish.
There is Megavar and Megavar Plus, the latter needing only two coats.

The Zahn #2 viscosity is below 30, meaning any professional gun sprays that pretty good without thinning.

They use to state maximum thinning at 15% but later removed that from their TDS.

We once were over capacity and had a contractor do an island top out of Maple. We supplied Lenmar. The top had water marks and food stains in less than a year. The contractor thinned 40%. We had to strip the whole thing down an re-coat, same finish. It looks fine four years later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Lenmar Megavar is our favorite clear finish.
There is Megavar and Megavar Plus, the latter needing only two coats.

The Zahn #2 viscosity is below 30, meaning any professional gun sprays that pretty good without thinning.

They use to state maximum thinning at 15% but later removed that from their TDS.

We once were over capacity and had a contractor do an island top out of Maple. We supplied Lenmar. The top had water marks and food stains in less than a year. The contractor thinned 40%. We had to strip the whole thing down an re-coat, same finish. It looks fine four years later.
For those who are interested, in the article below there is a viscosity table highlighted. It shows a Ford#4 cup viscosity range with the recommended tip size for the different type of spray systems/guns and paint viscosities.

For comparison, Zahn #2 at a viscosity of 30 is equivalent to a Ford #4 measuring a 23 viscosity.

All the paint docs in this post shows a viscosity of Zahn#2 st 30 or below, meaning any professional painter will be able to spray those perfectly without thinning.

Why do folks thin these finishes?

The thinner the finish, the easier it gets to apply, and that is the least path of resistance for the amateur painter. For the professional painter, that means less solids are put down with each coat, meaning an extra or sometimes two extra coats. That takes a lot more time. For example if a job needs three coats to attain optimum mill thickness, the guy who thins his stuff 50% either has to spray six coats or supply a job below mill spec thickness.

If a paint room is not available, and the application is in temperatures substantially above or below 70F the finish may have to be thinned. For high temperatures, a retarder may be needed to slow drying. For low temperatures one may have to add a flow enhancer.

In short, all manufacturers supply their finish ready to spray under ideal conditions. Modification is only needed when conditions are not ideal.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
I really do like Pre-cat lacquer for many reasons.
I use mostly exotic wood and dont ever stain. However, I do use some aniline dye in my finish.
Why I am thinking of an alternative is mainly due to yellowing over time.
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
I really do like Pre-cat lacquer for many reasons.
I use mostly exotic wood and dont ever stain. However, I do use some aniline dye in my finish.
Why I am thinking of an alternative is mainly due to yellowing over time.
I'm a pre-cat guy too tony. I still do mix pre-cats and polyurethane on my tables though.. easier repairs..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I'm a pre-cat guy too tony. I still do mix pre-cats and polyurethane on my tables though.. easier repairs..
What part of the table do you poly and what part do you Pre-cat?
Are talking 2 component urethane or the normal poly stuff straight out of the can?
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
I pre-cat everything low and poly just the top where your hands touch...

I do my thing for maintenance...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Maintenance?
Is Poly more durable than Pre-Cat or is just easier to repair?
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Maintenance would be on the poly.

Reason I tiled my bar top. Very little maintenance...

Somethings are just better off not being wood..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Thanks, definitely woth considering.
Any particular brand?
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
The poly? I usee to use Red Devil , but it's not on the market anymore. I ran into a guy onetime on a job spraying a 3-4 inch line of poly on casing in a house. #1 hint.... He suggested the thickest poly you could find. Red Devil it was. Now I buy Sherwin&Williams After years of usage I buy everything S&W....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Thanks fot the input. Read somewhere on the internet that if poly is applied in thin layers and sanded between layers, it wont yellow . Dont know how much I believe that.
My only problem with Poly is drying time. My shop is a small 10 x 30 and machinery is slowly eating up the floor space. I have plenty of room to work but nowhere to put my projects for drying. I seem to keep getting back to pre-cat.

Do water base finishes also yellow?
If not do they have the drying time of lacquer?
 

·
Registered
Bah humbug
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
I have a niece who wanted a gloss finish chest of drawers. I made the dresser from oak stained, and put high gloss pre cat on it. I sprayed it but it never looked like it dried. After about an hour I was frustrated and check in a inconspicuous place and it was completely dried. It had a wet look dried, I was amazed...

Now I can go to S&W home store in Blue springs and put a lil color in the pre-cat and I got red, blue, black, etc. I like it alot..

This is black mixed in with T77.. You can buy a gallon, mix into 4 quarts and mix say , red, blue, green and black.
chiptray2.JPG.6269aafbb74a87deed7707a3c3e4f33e.jpeg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
All things considered, I think I will stick to pre-cat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Tony, have you considered switching to water borne finishes? I was forced to switch from Pre-cat and CV by our insurance company because we didn't have a compliant booth, (Explosion proof everything including the toilet) There is a learning curve but I don't think I would go back to CV. I'll never go back to Pre-cat. I like SW KemAqua Plus and ML Campbell Aqualente. ML Campbell makes a WB conversion urathane but haven't tried it. The Target clear stuff is OK but we've had major issues with their pigmented stuff. (severe yellowing from moderate heat)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Did you have problems with their pigmented stuff only or did you have problems if you pigmented it yourself?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
I know a guy that owns a body shop and does high end painting like really wild stuff. Anyway, several years ago he had to go over to water bases also. He says he never had a problem with it also.
With water base, how long between recoats? With pre-cat it is literally just minutes In summer time like 10 minutes.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top