[ssgtjoenunez]

Hello all! I am new to wood working and have been a DIY carpenter for awhile. I'm pretty used to using mechanical fasteners and will be foraying into advanced joinery methods here really soon. I realize there will be a need to plane some of these joints smooth and have no idea what kinds of planers to buy, what sizes, etc.

Can anyone give me any advice on a basic set of planers and possibly chisels I will need for nice dovetails, finger and tennon joints? I am very interested in experimenting and learning but will need some ideas on what tools I need to get started.

Thanks in advance!

 

[amckenzie4]

You're going to get a lot of answers, many of them wildly different. Here's my take:

1) Saws are where you should start. For dovetailing, get a good dovetail or carcasse saw. Veritas makes a nice one for about $80. Get the one filed rip; that's what I did, and it makes a fairly smooth cut with minimal tearout at the exit side even when crosscutting pine. It will also work for small tenons.

2) For planes, it depends on how deep you want to get into hand tool work. If you're buying or machining 4s wood, then cutting it to length, I'd advocate for a good low-angle smoother or jack if you're buying new, or a #4 or #5 equivalent if you're buying old tools. Build a shooting board, and you'll be able to get the ends of your boards perfectly square, which is important. I've been using a #4 equivalent with the Wards Master logo, who knows who made it, and it works well as long as I keep it sharp.

3) What chisels you need depends on what size wood you're working with and what spaces you need to work in. I've been practicing with 1x4 pine, and I'm finding that a 1", 1/2", and 1/4" bench chisels are the ones I use most. I use the 1" for trimming tails and pins to exact measurements, and the half and quarter inch sizes for trimming out waste.

4) You'll also need a good square, and I recommend a coping saw for trimming out the waste. Yeah, you can chisel it all out, but I find it's faster (for me) to cope it out.



The other advice I have is to practice. A week ago (today will be day 8) I decided I was going to make one dovetailed corner each day. The one I did on my first day, while not my first dovetail, was pretty terrible. The one I did last night I was pretty pleased with, and I imagine I'll continue to get better.

 

[Dave Paine]

Build a shooting board, and you'll be able to get the ends of your boards perfectly square, which is important.

A shooting board is a very good idea. Easy to make. Whatever hand plane you want to use with the shooting board, I recommend you check that whatever side is down on the shooting board you check that it is orthogonal (90 deg) to the sole.

Over a decade ago I made a shooting board which I still use. At the time my only hand plane was a Record No. 5, purchased new around the late 1990's.

I was eager to try this out, had a board in place, made a few passes, looked smooth. I checked the edge and it was not 90 deg. What the heck. The shooting board was good.

I then checked the sides of my Record No. 5. The side I had down was machined slightly off by a few degrees. As luck would have it the other side was 90 deg, but the other side was wrong for my handedness. Drat.

I ended up getting a Veritas Low Angle smoother some time later. This had sides which were machined true.

 

[tc65]

Spot on advise from Andy and Dave. One thing I would add is you will also need a good coping saw. No need to go out and spend $100 on a Knew Concepts saw, Olson makes a good one that I have for about $12. It will save you a lot of time using the coping saw to rough trim waste while making dovetails/finger joints.

Plane selection (as already mentioned) depends on what you want to do with them. Do you plan on milling rough saw wood? What about making rabbits/dados with hand planes?

If you just want to work on dovetail, finger joints, mortice and tenons, then you really don't need hand planes for those joints. Some would argue the need for a shoulder plane, but it is not really necessary a chisel works just fine for trimming.

One other thing to consider is mortice chisels - you will need them. Size depends once again on the size of material you plan on working with. Lots of "sets" out there, but you really don't need a set if you won't use all the sizes. Buy them individually as you need them and you'll save money up front.

 

[amckenzie4]

Oh, yeah, I was just thinking dovetails. For mortising:

Mortise chisels are nice, but not necessary. Paul Sellers advocates for using ONLY bench chisels, and claims they're faster. His somewhat unscientific demonstration is here:

That said, I just acquired a 1/4" mortise chisel, and I'll be using that the next time I need to cut a mortise.

A wide chisel or a shoulder plane is really nice to have when truing up tenons.

 

[Billy De]

Good story Dave and a great excuse to buy a new plane, but forgive me when I find the need to state a fact, to any body taking up wood working for a hobby on a budget.

A shooting board is a great tool to have and simple to make for your self but if you find that the cheeks of the plane are not at 90 degrees to the sole, you have a lateral adjustment lever on the plane all you have to do is adjust this lever till the cutting iron is at 90 degrees to the stuff you are shooting.

Starting off with hand tools I would say and it is JMHO that on a bench plane I would look for as much brass as possible on the tool, how much meat is on the iron, are there any cracks or splits in the casting.

Hand saws, go and buy the cheapest wood cutting, flame hardend, hand saw that you can find. You can pick them up in box stores take it home and cut a piece of wood to length again and again, it will show you how a good saw performs when it sharp.
Now every old saw that you have ever seen hanging on a nail some where can do just as good, all you have to do is learn how to keep that saw in fine fettle. What do I mean by fine fettle I mean to tune that tool to within an inch of its life to sharpen and set it so when you strum your fingers along the teeth the flesh on your fingers stick to the teeth its called sticky sharp and it feels good.

A flame hardend saw when it is blunt you through away you cant bring it back into fettle the teeth are harder than the saw files but learn how to fettle a saw and the saw will last you not just your life time but your children also.

To add to the tools that have already been suggested in this thread I would add at least one sliding bevel Carpenters all ways talk in ratios its a good thing to get to know. A striking knife and a small square are the eternal partners of a sliding bevel.

A mortice gauge and a cutting gauge should be added to the list of fine joinery, at least one parring chisel, a shoulder plane can also be added to the list later on.

There are other tools like block planes, dove tail templates protractor gauges, the list goes on and on.

Have fun starting this journey you are going on enjoy it.

 

[Azur Jahić]

OO so shoting board is what i need . I have hand smoothing plane. Wooden one. Do bottom of the plane need to be squere. I think mine is not. So that is issue why i can't get squere plank?
One problem is i don't have any wooden vise that will help me.

 

[Dave Paine]

OO so shoting board is what i need . I have hand smoothing plane. Wooden one. Do bottom of the plane need to be squere. I think mine is not. So that is issue why i can't get squere plank?
One problem is i don't have any wooden vise that will help me.

If the bottom of your plane is not square, you can adjust the blade side-to-side to compensate. Getting the bottom square may be better for long term.

I am not sure of the wooden vise problem. A shooting board does not have to be held in a vise. Many are made to just hang off the edge of a bench, like this design. A bench hook style.

http://www.ticovogt.com/?page_id=570

 

[amckenzie4]

In order for a plane to work the bottom has to be flat; if it isn't, you cannot flatten a board with it.

In order to square the end of a board, it's easiest to use a shooting board. In order to do that, the side of the plane you are using must be square to the bottom of the plane. If it isn't, you can still square the end, it's just harder. With a shooting board, you put the workpiece in the shooting board and push the plane across it. The fence on the shooting board keeps everything square and backs up the cut. Without a shooting board, I find it easiest to put the workpiece in a vise (or just clamp it upright to a bench) and work from the edges towards the middle. It takes longer and is harder, but it can still be done.

 

[amckenzie4]

Also, a shooting board does not have to be complicated. Mine is almost idiotically simple. I took a piece of 3/4" x 10" pine, and fasted a piece of 2"x2" stock to each end. On one end the 2x2 is about an 9" long and attached on side A, so I can use it as a bench hook with that side up. On the other end, attached to side B, the 2x2 is 10" long. That one I put effort into making perfectly square to the edge I would run the plane along. The side of the plane sits on my bench top, which is flat enough that that doesn't cause problems.

It took me less than 15 minutes to make, and it works quite well. Except that mine doesn't provide a track for the plane, what I have looks pretty much like this.

 

[Azur Jahić]

Here is my plane.





CAn this plane be fixed do you guys have advise how to tune it upa and fix it if there is any hope to se this for jointing two pics off wood.

 

[sheperd80]

Home Depot sells Buck Bros chisels and hand planes. While theyre not youre top of the line elite tools they are quite decent with a little sharpening. I use their full range of chisels, and have a few of their pla es as well. When properly sharpened and tuned they do a great job

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

 

[amckenzie4]

Sheperd, Azur doesn't live in the US, and has a hard time getting tools.

That plane can certainly be tuned up to work better. The usual advice is to use another plane to flatten the bottom, but you presumably don't have one. Given that, I recommend getting a piece of glass, marble tile, or something else hard and flat. Tape or glue a piece of sandpaper (100 grit, maybe?) to the flat surface and use it to flatten the bottom of the plane. You'll likely need to do some work to make the bottom square to the sides, but it should work. Take as little off as you can: it does not need to be perfectly flat, just pretty good.

However: Jointing long boards with that plane will be very hard. It looks (to my inexperienced eye) as if it was designed as a scrub plane, for taking a lot of material off very quickly. It also looks fairly short; maybe 9-10 inches (22-25cm). It is possible to get a plane that short to do jointing, but it takes a lot of work. Keep a straightedge and a square handy, and check very frequently: as you get close, test after every cut.

 

[Azur Jahić]

Sheperd, Azur doesn't live in the US, and has a hard time getting tools.

That plane can certainly be tuned up to work better. The usual advice is to use another plane to flatten the bottom, but you presumably don't have one. Given that, I recommend getting a piece of glass, marble tile, or something else hard and flat. Tape or glue a piece of sandpaper (100 grit, maybe?) to the flat surface and use it to flatten the bottom of the plane. You'll likely need to do some work to make the bottom square to the sides, but it should work. Take as little off as you can: it does not need to be perfectly flat, just pretty good.

However: Jointing long boards with that plane will be very hard. It looks (to my inexperienced eye) as if it was designed as a scrub plane, for taking a lot of material off very quickly. It also looks fairly short; maybe 9-10 inches (22-25cm). It is possible to get a plane that short to do jointing, but it takes a lot of work. Keep a straightedge and a square handy, and check very frequently: as you get close, test after every cut.

Thanks for answer. This is smoothing plane. I heard that i can use marker or check if there is some mark. Today iam buying some sandpaper 120 i dont know i will see wich kind granulation i need it can't be too much rought can it?

 

[Manuka Jock]

Here is my plane.

Can this plane be fixed do you guys have advise how to tune it upa and fix it if there is any hope to se this for jointing two pics off wood.

Azur ,
your plane looks ok , sanding it on the glass will be good (except for the broken tote) but the blade needs to say hello to a grindstone , and then an oilstone :icon_smile:

Are you still working on the bellows ?

 

[Azur Jahić]

Azur ,
your plane looks ok (except for the broken tote) but the blade needs to say hello to a grindstone , and then an oilstone :icon_smile:

Are you still working on the bellows ?

Yes iam to make bellows top i need to tune plane so i can glue all together. I make bottom frop plywood midle board from fir wood now top is task. I find that wedge is a litle bit too short blade offten come out from wood. And i will work on sole.

 

[amckenzie4]

It may be the image, or it may be my eyes, but the wedge looks very rough on the bottom. If it is, you might want to try to smooth it somewhat. Obviously that will be hard to do with the plane you have (how do you smooth the wedge for a plane using that plane? I have no idea.). You might try a few passes with a fine rasp or file; if the wedge isn't making good contact with the plane, it might be slipping. So fixing that might mean the iron comes loose less often.

 

[Azur Jahić]

It may be the image, or it may be my eyes, but the wedge looks very rough on the bottom. If it is, you might want to try to smooth it somewhat. Obviously that will be hard to do with the plane you have (how do you smooth the wedge for a plane using that plane? I have no idea.). You might try a few passes with a fine rasp or file; if the wedge isn't making good contact with the plane, it might be slipping. So fixing that might mean the iron comes loose less often.

Its because i give it to my neighbour he cut it with angle grinder as he thinks it might solve problem with clogging. I use one ps 23 p 60 sand paper but i don't get eaven surface. About sole its not quite squere as i think it would be but iam afraid i might take too much wood if i go and sand with this sandpaper.

 

[Manuka Jock]

Its because i give it to my neighbour he cut it with angle grinder as he thinks it might solve problem with clogging. I use one ps 23 p 60 sand paper but i don't get eaven surface. About sole its not quite squere as i think it would be but iam afraid i might take too much wood if i go and sand with this sandpaper.

Try it with 120 grit sandpaper , for the plane sole .
For the wedge sand that rough side , but , you may have to make another wedge .

The clogging may be because the plane was not sharp enough , and too much blade was showing

 

[amckenzie4]

The sole of the plane looks fine to me. Smoother would be better, but it should work now. Maybe a little bit with 120 grit, but make sure the paper is held completely flat.

At this point I'd concentrate on the wedge and the iron.