Are you wiping or brushing this on?
Oil or water poly for home bar?
Hey guys - longtime lurker, first time poster; great forum you've got here.
I recently built a basement bar out of some lumber I that salvaged from a couple old church pews and an altar. Decided to keep it natural (no stain), so next step is poly.
The oil-based product I typically use turns this wood (I was told poplar?) significantly "redder." I've tried some other polys, including water-based ones, and the one that changes the wood the least is Minwax Polychrylic. I like the color, but the sheen, overall appearance, etc. is lacking. Plus, I'm just hesitant to use a water-based finish on a bar -- even if I do 5-6 coats. I can live with the color of the oil-based poly if it will provide significantly more protection (which I suspect it might). So my questions:
Thanks for the input and all your help. Below is a pic of a scrap piece of wood with the two stains. Inside triangle section is the polychrylic, outer "L" section is the oil poly. Natural wood is in between (and original stain that I removed is up top). Also posting a pic of the bar as an FYI.
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I recently built a basement bar out of some lumber I that salvaged from a couple old church pews and an altar. Decided to keep it natural (no stain), so next step is poly.
The oil-based product I typically use turns this wood (I was told poplar?) significantly "redder." I've tried some other polys, including water-based ones, and the one that changes the wood the least is Minwax Polychrylic. I like the color, but the sheen, overall appearance, etc. is lacking. Plus, I'm just hesitant to use a water-based finish on a bar -- even if I do 5-6 coats. I can live with the color of the oil-based poly if it will provide significantly more protection (which I suspect it might). So my questions:
- Should I risk using the polychrylic on a bar? Or should I just suck it up and use the oil-based poly?
- If I go with polychrylic, is there any way to make it look richer? Will multiple coats do the trick? The sample below has two coats of gloss, and it still looks duller and less vibrant than one coat of the oil based product.
- Are you guys aware of any oil-based poly that would turn the wood less red?
- Any other thoughts/considerations?
Thanks for the input and all your help. Below is a pic of a scrap piece of wood with the two stains. Inside triangle section is the polychrylic, outer "L" section is the oil poly. Natural wood is in between (and original stain that I removed is up top). Also posting a pic of the bar as an FYI.
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Was planning to brush, but I can be convinced otherwise.
If you are going to stain, you might work with someone who can get you a stain, tone it down whicjh would allow you to use oil base poly..
Are you sure that's poplar? Looks like cherry to me, based on the top photo. Bottom photo is too far away to be sure, but also doesn't look like polar to me. Would explain why wood looks redder after finishing. Been wrong before though.
Poplar comes in a variety of colors.Are you sure that's poplar? Looks like cherry to me, based on the top photo. Bottom photo is too far away to be sure, but also doesn't look like polar to me. Would explain why wood looks redder after finishing. Been wrong before though.
The polycrylic isn't near as hard and durable and on oil based poly. You could enhance the grain by applying a natural stain. These contain linseed oil and mineral spirits. Using polycrylic let the stain dry a couple days before putting polycrylic over the top. Linseed oil and water based finishes are incompatible with each other so you have to allow the linseed oil to dry completely before using a water based finish.
One characteristic of oil based finishes is they tend to yellow with age. You might consider this when choosing an oil based varnish. Not sure why you are having issues with oil based varnish turning the wood red unless some of the existing stain is giving it the red color. Anyway you can neutralize the red color and make the wood more brown by staining the wood with a green dye. It would take some tinkering with it to get the right formula that it would make the wood brown without it looking green. This is something that should be sprayed on at low pressure. Try it on some scrap wood first. Just keep in mind it looks like nothing when you put it on so your instincts are telling you to put another coat on. If you do the wood will be green. Better to not put enough on than too much and you can also use it between the coats of finish when you varnish it if you didn't get enough. I use this dye. Mohawk | Ultra® Penetrating Stain MA520-2036
One characteristic of oil based finishes is they tend to yellow with age. You might consider this when choosing an oil based varnish. Not sure why you are having issues with oil based varnish turning the wood red unless some of the existing stain is giving it the red color. Anyway you can neutralize the red color and make the wood more brown by staining the wood with a green dye. It would take some tinkering with it to get the right formula that it would make the wood brown without it looking green. This is something that should be sprayed on at low pressure. Try it on some scrap wood first. Just keep in mind it looks like nothing when you put it on so your instincts are telling you to put another coat on. If you do the wood will be green. Better to not put enough on than too much and you can also use it between the coats of finish when you varnish it if you didn't get enough. I use this dye. Mohawk | Ultra® Penetrating Stain MA520-2036
I'm not sure what kind of wood it is. I was told poplar, but I also thought cherry was a possibility. It certainly doesn't act like the poplar you find in Lowes and HD, but then again it's at least 80-100 yrs old ...
Good ideas. Will def try the natural stain on a scrap, as well as the green dye + poly. Thanks!The polycrylic isn't near as hard and durable and on oil based poly. You could enhance the grain by applying a natural stain. These contain linseed oil and mineral spirits. Using polycrylic let the stain dry a couple days before putting polycrylic over the top. Linseed oil and water based finishes are incompatible with each other so you have to allow the linseed oil to dry completely before using a water based finish.
One characteristic of oil based finishes is they tend to yellow with age. You might consider this when choosing an oil based varnish. Not sure why you are having issues with oil based varnish turning the wood red unless some of the existing stain is giving it the red color. Anyway you can neutralize the red color and make the wood more brown by staining the wood with a green dye. It would take some tinkering with it to get the right formula that it would make the wood brown without it looking green. This is something that should be sprayed on at low pressure. Try it on some scrap wood first. Just keep in mind it looks like nothing when you put it on so your instincts are telling you to put another coat on. If you do the wood will be green. Better to not put enough on than too much and you can also use it between the coats of finish when you varnish it if you didn't get enough. I use this dye. Mohawk | Ultra® Penetrating Stain MA520-2036
I am currently working on a project out of cherry. I will finish it with Waterlox Original Sealer Finish. I love the look of this product alone (no stain) over the cherry. While it enhances the color and grain of the wood, it is on the brown side rather than red. You can order 2 oz samples from them for $9 and give it a try. Waterlox claims to be for floors and counter tops. I have no first hand experience with that application. So. you will need to get more information on relative hardness and alcohol resistance, but you might like the look.
Excellent idea. It so happens that a Rockler just opened locally, and they have the original sealer in stock ... I'll give that a shot!I am currently working on a project out of cherry. I will finish it with Waterlox Original Sealer Finish. I love the look of this product alone (no stain) over the cherry. While it enhances the color and grain of the wood, it is on the brown side rather than red. You can order 2 oz samples from them for $9 and give it a try. Waterlox claims to be for floors and counter tops. I have no first hand experience with that application. So. you will need to get more information on relative hardness and alcohol resistance, but you might like the look.
^^^ One of my favorite finishes. One of the things I like about it is that you can just keep applying coats until you get the sheen you like. I might suggest that once you get the sheen you like, give it one more coat since it loses a little bit of sheen once it fully cures.I am currently working on a project out of cherry. I will finish it with Waterlox Original Sealer Finish. I love the look of this product alone (no stain) over the cherry. While it enhances the color and grain of the wood, it is on the brown side rather than red. You can order 2 oz samples from them for $9 and give it a try. Waterlox claims to be for floors and counter tops. I have no first hand experience with that application. So. you will need to get more information on relative hardness and alcohol resistance, but you might like the look.
I do the first two coats by flooding the surface until it looks like it won’t absorb any more, then I wipe off the excess. 3rd and subsequent coats I brush on thin coats.
PS - Properly dispose Waterlox soaked rags. It can spontaneously combust.
Doesn’t look like Cherry to me..Are you sure that's poplar? Looks like cherry to me, based on the top photo. Bottom photo is too far away to be sure, but also doesn't look like polar to me. Would explain why wood looks redder after finishing. Been wrong before though.
It does to me. Wonder what others think?
They make a gloss product also. However, if I understand correctly, they recommend using the Original Sealer Finish for the first coat. So, going that route, you need to purchase two products. Considering the cost, I would check with the company first.^^^ One of my favorite finishes. One of the things I like about it is that you can just keep applying coats until you get the sheen you like. I might suggest that once you get the sheen you like, give it one more coat since it loses a little bit of sheen once it fully cures.
I do the first two coats by flooding the surface until it looks like it won’t absorb any more, then I wipe off the excess. 3rd and subsequent coats I brush on thin coats.
PS - Properly dispose Waterlox soaked rags. It can spontaneously combust.
Was just going to ask this ... I just got the "original sealer finish" and plan to try it out on a piece of scrap tonight. Then they recommend using 2 coats of a separate "finish" product (gloss, semi or satin) on top of the sealer finish? Presumably to add the appropriate sheen/additional protection? My Rockler only has the finish product in satin, and so if I want to go gloss I would have to order this product.They make a gloss product also. However, if I understand correctly, they recommend using the Original Sealer Finish for the first coat. So, going that route, you need to purchase two products. Considering the cost, I would check with the company first.
Maybe it is just me, but I find their web site a bit confusing. My understanding is that the Original Sealer Finish can be used alone or in conjunction with the gloss top coat. If you like the semi-gloss, using the Original alone will work just fine. But, if I were going to use any of the others, I would seek some clarification from them. It doesn't make sense to me to use a semi-gloss (or satin) under gloss, but I'm not sure you can use the gloss alone. Maybe someone else here has some experience with this.Was just going to ask this ... I just got the "original sealer finish" and plan to try it out on a piece of scrap tonight. Then they recommend using 2 coats of a separate "finish" product (gloss, semi or satin) on top of the sealer finish? Presumably to add the appropriate sheen/additional protection? My Rockler only has the finish product in satin, and so if I want to go gloss I would have to order this product.
Agree 100%. I reached out to Waterlox and they confirmed that you use the Original Sealer Finish first to seal the wood. Alternatively, you can use their Tung Oil Sealer. (Anything softer than oak they recommend 2 seal coats.) Then, you can use the same Original Sealer Finish again for the second and third coats if you want semi-gloss. But if you want gloss or satin, use the "Original Finish" (which is not a sealer) for the second and third coats. So the Original Sealer Finish can be a standalone product if you're fine with semi-gloss. They directed me to this PDF, which explains things a little better: LinkyMaybe it is just me, but I find their web site a bit confusing. My understanding is that the Original Sealer Finish can be used alone or in conjunction with the gloss top coat. If you like the semi-gloss, using the Original alone will work just fine. But, if I were going to use any of the others, I would seek some clarification from them. It doesn't make sense to me to use a semi-gloss (or satin) under gloss, but I'm not sure you can use the gloss alone. Maybe someone else here has some experience with this.
Also, because the "Original Finish" is not a sealer, they do not recommend using it alone without first using the Sealer Finish or Tung Oil. And when I asked about gloss over semi, they said that semi is the natural sheen of the product. The gloss version contains added sheen and the satin contains added flatteners. So it's unlike poly, in which gloss is the OG and both semi and satin contain flatteners -- which is why your base coats of poly should be gloss.
Good information. Thanks for sharing. So. You do have to buy two products if you want gloss or satin.
I think they should re-think their thinking on naming conventions. Can everything be "original" at the same time?
I think they should re-think their thinking on naming conventions. Can everything be "original" at the same time?
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