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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, all and Happy New Year! First time poster here. As with many first time posters, I am looking for a recommendation for a TS for a new shop I am setting up. I've had some experience with basic woodworking, but this will be my first dedicated wood shop. Here are the particulars:

Shop is small. Everyone thinks their shop is small. Mine is really small. 12' x 12' with two doors (one each on adjoining walls). One door is to rest of basement and one wider utility door is to the great outdoors (concrete pad - perfect for jobs that won't fit inside). It is dry walled, heated, and very well lit. One fairly serious downside is there is only a single 120v outlet, but at least it is a 20amp circuit.

My primary game plan is a modular/mobile workshop so that tools may be brought out and then tucked away. I am currently using masking tape on the floor to size up how I want to lay it out. I already have a sliding compound miter and am planning to build it into the middle of a fixed a workbench along the full width of one doorless wall. Everything else will be bench top tools mounted on wheeled carts. I had toyed quite seriously with the idea of a shop smith to save some space and money. The more I looked at it though I'm not sure I'll be using many of the functions it provides (lathe, horizontal boring), and I'm not sure I like the idea of a table saw without a riving knife and blade guard when I'm starting out. Thoughts?

Assuming the Shop Smith is out, I'd like to acquire a table saw, router, planer/joiner, bandsaw, and drill press (could also use advice on whether that is a good sequence of acquisition). Assuming a TS will be my first purchase, I'm thinking a portable or contractor saw that I can build into a mobile base - or hang it off a workbench I could wheel into the center of the room when needed. I'm looking below $600 (new), and because I plan to build it into a base that doubles as a workbench, I'm not that interested in paying for some of the fancy folding bases that come with some job site saws. To be quite honest, I stare at all the different models in the stores that fit this description and I cannot for the life of me understand what sets apart a $300 saw from a $600 saw - even when they come from the same manufacturer!

Here are some models I'm looking at or for (would prefer used if I can find the right model at the right price):

Craftsman 21829 - really like that this saw has a router table already built in. Could save me some space, no? Any other models come like this? Is this a bad idea?

Rigid 4512 or Craftsman 21833 - these appear to be more saw for about the same money as some of the much smaller Dewalts, no?

I understand the Dewalts and Bosch models I see at Lowes and Home Depot are fine saws, but that is where I can't tell the difference between them. Any particular knee in the cost curve on these saws?

So that's where I'm at. Suggestions are welcome!
 

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I would recommend your first step would be to have an electrician add some circuits to the shop. You are not going to be able to do much with only one 20 amp outlet. You can have him add 220v outlets as well, to really increase your available equipment choices.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So are there any portable saws that have belt drive induction motors? Or what is the smallest table saw with a belt drive induction motor? I'm working on the layout of my 12'x12' workshop and think I have an effective layout that has the saw in the center of the room when it's in use (and the other tools in the same place when their cart is rolled into the position of use). Some of the tables on saws larger than the portable models are taping out to be quite overwhelming for the space, so looking for a smaller saw but still has induction drive. Thanks in advance!
 

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I work out of a one car garage...12 x 20 or thereabouts. It has an upright freezer, washer and dryer, hot water heater and a heavy duty storage rack along one wall. When you add a Grizzly 1023RLW table saw, drill press, 6 inch Jet Jointer, Dewalt planer, Griz 18-36 drum sander AND... a miter saw station with router table on the end, well that doesn't leave much room to work. I also have a mobile workstation which comes in real handy.

I built some custom cabinets for storage and tool storage that have really working out great.
Here are a few pics. Maybe you will get some inspiration or ideas from them that you can adapt to your shop.
Good luck
Mike
 

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One more look at the tool storage cabinets. Loving them. Everything is within easy reach.

The miter saw station is based loosely on the Ron Paulk Miter Station (You Tube). But I built cabinets to mount it on so now I have drawers and trays for storage. I also incorporated the Kreg measuring system. Works great! And to top it off, I have a router table top attached to the end which provides additional working room for longer stock - regardless if I am using the miter saw OR routing long stock on the router. It also has a shop vac which I connect to the miter saw or router or one of several sanders sitting nearby. I am getting a lot of use out of a fairly small area.

One last note...with the exception of my work bench, everything is on casters or a mobile base.
Mike
 

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You don't "need" more than 1 - 20 amp outlet.
My small barn has only 15 amp service, and I can use any machine I have, including a cabinet saw, and stationary planer.
The only thing you can't do, is run a dust collector. A lot more sweeping! Or run more than 1 machine at time.
Also, for machines like a oss, I wear a mask.

In elec. service, more is better, but you can get by in a home shop with 20 amps.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, all!

Pirate, I figured I'd be ok with a single 20 amp circuit.... The shop is small enough I can't fit any large tools in it and then I'll only be able to run one at a time anyway!

String - that is a gorgeous saw. How do you like having a router mount in your table saw? Nice modular workshop too! I look forward to sharing pics of mine when I get it up and running!

So anyone have a recommendation on a smaller induction drive table saw? I think the google tells me Jet made a portable saw at one time that was belt drive with an induction motor.
 

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Thanks, all!
String - that is a gorgeous saw. How do you like having a router mount in your table saw? Nice modular workshop too! I look forward to sharing pics of mine when I get it up and running!
It is really nice to have the router readily available. When building several projects, I kept a round-over bit mounted in the router. It was set and ready to go. I cut a piece, then step over 18 inches and round the edges. Easy peasy.

Google table saw mounted router tables...or check out You Tube. You can make one for whatever saw you buy. Great for tight places.

Note: I have a fence with a dust collection port that I can clamp to the table saw fence when making repeated cuts on the router.

Good luck.
Mike
 

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So are there any portable saws that have belt drive induction motors? Or what is the smallest table saw with a belt drive induction motor? I'm working on the layout of my 12'x12' workshop and think I have an effective layout that has the saw in the center of the room when it's in use (and the other tools in the same place when their cart is rolled into the position of use). Some of the tables on saws larger than the portable models are taping out to be quite overwhelming for the space, so looking for a smaller saw but still has induction drive. Thanks in advance!
The General International 50-090K and Saw Stop portable contractor saw are both belt drive with induction motors, and are both portable but cost quite a bit. The Sears 21829 is belt drive but has a universal motor.





 

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Discussion Starter #12
knotscott said:
The General International 50-090K and Saw Stop portable contractor saw are both belt drive with induction motors, and are both portable but cost quite a bit. The Sears 21829 is belt drive but has a universal motor.
Thanks!!
 

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I would recommend your first step would be to have an electrician add some circuits to the shop. You are not going to be able to do much with only one 20 amp outlet. You can have him add 220v outlets as well, to really increase your available equipment choices.

I would not waste the money on a 240 volt outlet a 12x12 shop.

In fact, in a shop that size one 20 amp outlet is probably sufficient. Not likely that he is going to be running more than one machine at once. Most likely one machine and a dust collector (vacuum) is the most that will run simultaneously.

He may want several hand tools plugged in in addition to the major tool. That is handled by adapters.

George
 

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I would not waste the money on a 240 volt outlet a 12x12 shop.

In fact, in a shop that size one 20 amp outlet is probably sufficient. Not likely that he is going to be running more than one machine at once. Most likely one machine and a dust collector (vacuum) is the most that will run simultaneously.

He may want several hand tools plugged in in addition to the major tool. That is handled by adapters.

George
Well my actual work area in not much bigger then 12x12. I use about 2/3rds of one bay of my garage. When I had the house built I told the electrician where I wanted the outlets and that I wanted 2 circuits. I didn't check back on his work and he put in the 220 like I wanted but he put all the 120v outlets on one 20 amp circuit. I end up running an extension cord from the other side of the garage, so that I can run my DC and some other equipment at the same time. I think one 20 amp circuit is not enough if you have many machines.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here's an update. Well, I've designed and redesigned my layout a few times. I think I've settled on a large mobile workstation towards the center of the shop complete with integrated table saw, miter saw, router table, dust collection, etc, etc. the idea is if it is mobile enough i can wheel it outside weather permitting where I'll have more room and less noise.

Been researching table saws for two months. I started out looking at the higher end job site saws - was going to mount it perpendicular at the end of the work station. Narrowed it down the the Rigid 4510 and the Bosch 4100. Then I cast my eyes upon the Rigid 4512 - a big fancy hybrid for less money than the Bosch4100. Belt driven induction motor for under 500 bucks by the time I apply the military discount at HD. Done. Would have to alter the design of the mobile workstation, but so be it.

Then I start reading all these horror stories online from folks who lug it home, spend four hours putting it together, only to find the blade and riving knife won't stay in alignment. Apparently it's luck of the draw if you bring one home with a bad trunnion or a good trunnion. Anyone know if Rigid has gotten this fixed? Anyone know if the identical Craftsman has the same problem? Suggestions? Do I roll the dice to see if I'm one of the happy 4512 users? Or do I look elsewhere? Or do I go back to the jobsite saws? I haven't seen one ill spoken or printed word about the Bosch 4100..... Guess that's why they get for it what they do!
 

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From what I can tell, Ridgid isn't even acknowledging that there's a problem, so it's hard to know if they've fixed it. I'm still reading current stories of alignment issues, but those could very well be older stock, or resold returns. It's something I'd want to try to check in the store....not very convenient, but could be the lesser of two evils. You might also consider the new Delta 36-725 at Lowes...I can't vouch for the saw from personal experience...I just know that it's a new player in this price range and class of saw. I think you're on the right track if you can fit a full size saw in your shop.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Two great suggestions, thanks!! I will start reading up on both saws. I read the reviews for the Delta on Lowe's website, but will hunt around some more to see if there are other reviews out there.

I'm sure the Grizzly is nice! One question: since the guard/riving knife/anti-kickback setup appears different than the other saws I've seen, does the riving knife on the grizzly permit use during non-thru cuts?

What about the Grizzly G0732 Contractor Style Saw? Or G0661? Any feedback?

Any info on the Steel City Model #: 35990C ? I guess Lowes also carries it (at least online).
 

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Two great suggestions, thanks!! I will start reading up on both saws. I read the reviews for the Delta on Lowe's website, but will hunt around some more to see if there are other reviews out there.

I'm sure the Grizzly is nice! One question: since the guard/riving knife/anti-kickback setup appears different than the other saws I've seen, does the riving knife on the grizzly permit use during non-thru cuts?

What about the Grizzly G0732 Contractor Style Saw? Or G0661? Any feedback?

Any info on the Steel City Model #: 35990C ? I guess Lowes also carries it (at least online).
The G0732 isn't quite full size....it's only 25" deep. It's pretty similar to the GI-50-090M1. The fence is modest for a saw in this price range. The G0661 has a good track record. The SC35990C has a good track record too for the most part and offers cabinet mounted trunnions... some have had issues getting the wings aligned so that the miter slots are evenly spaced...likely a setup issue more than a defect. The fence isn't a strength on the 35990 series, but it's functional.
 

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Two great suggestions, thanks!! I will start reading up on both saws. I read the reviews for the Delta on Lowe's website, but will hunt around some more to see if there are other reviews out there.

I'm sure the Grizzly is nice! One question: since the guard/riving knife/anti-kickback setup appears different than the other saws I've seen, does the riving knife on the grizzly permit use during non-thru cuts?

What about the Grizzly G0732 Contractor Style Saw? Or G0661? Any feedback?

Any info on the Steel City Model #: 35990C ? I guess Lowes also carries it (at least online).
HD also offers SC tools online for free store pick up.
 
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