[Liebertron]

I am completely new to woodworking, so lets start there. For the life of me I cannot decide if it would be better to start with a new, but cheaper, table saw or a used table saw, like the Rigid 4512. I do have a 240v hookup in my "shop" (it can be hardly called that atm) so thats not a concern. But I really don't know where to start... I am leaning towards the Rigid just because I can return it and get it serviced much easier than a table saw I buy from someone. I dont really know how to look at the guts of a saw and make sure that its a solid saw...

I guess another question would be is there a huge difference between the $550 Rigid and saw a $800 Grizzly, say the G0715, that a beginner would notice or truly benefit from. Help!

 

[ryan50hrl]

Your going to get a million different responses to this question. There is no right answer. However if you don't feel comfortable with the mechanical side of a saw I'd go new. I also consider the craftsman version of the ridgid , it's item number is 21833. It has a bit bigger motor, a longer cord, an arbor lock, a better stock blade and can often be had for 550 or less when ordering off of sears.com.

 

[Liebertron]

Your going to get a million different responses to this question. There is no right answer. However if you don't feel comfortable with the mechanical side of a saw I'd go new. I also consider the craftsman version of the ridgid , it's item number is 21833. It has a bit bigger motor, a longer cord, an arbor lock, a better stock blade and can often be had for 550 or less when ordering off of sears.com.

What about a table top saw, like the Bosch 4100, and making a stand?

 

[mobilepaul]

This is just my opinion! Not knowing where you are, there are some generalizations that can be made. If you have a local woodworking club, join, then you can poll others about the what, which, why, etc. Members in the club may have or, at least know where a good used saw could be located. Look on your local craigslist and in the classifieds of your paper. You could, most probably, find a VERY nice used saw for the same money you're talking about. If you happen upon one or two or whatever, go look at them, turn it on, have the seller push a board though it and listen to the saw. Examine the saw and read up on the things to look for in a good saw. It would not take you long, if you read and ask questions, to know what to look for and make an informed decision...

Take your time and do you due diligence, it will pay off in the long run. You may find that the saw you want was one of the ones you are already looking at, perhaps not. But give yourself some time to make an appropriate decision based on your present needs and future needs. Money spent, should be, money well spent.

Just my two cents

Paul

 

[ryan50hrl]

What about a table top saw, like the Bosch 4100, and making a stand?

Part of the problem with table top saws is that they're light, have small tables, and aren't real stable. I'd pass if it were me. Also they have low quality universal motors vs induction motors in stationary saws. You don't tend to save a whole lot on a table top model, and most guys end up upgrading eventually anyhow

 

[Liebertron]

Ok, I am looking on craigslist. Don't see anything atm, but I will keep on the look out.

Any brands I should go towards or stay away from?

From the research, it looks like Delta, Grizzly, and Jet see like good brands. Any others I should keep my eye on?

 

[Liebertron]

What about this saw?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/4139819063.html

 

[ryan50hrl]

What about this saw? http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/4139819063.html

That's a nice saw for the money...a few things you won't get on an old saw.

1. A riving knife

2. Left tilt. Most older saws are right tilt which when cutting bevels can trap wood between the blade and fence.

That said....550 isn't a bad price.

As for brand, don't shop by brand. The same ridgid saw can be bought under at least 4 names with minor changes..and grizzly jet and some others all come out of the same factories.

 

[mobilepaul]

That's a nice saw for the money...a few things you won't get on an old saw.

1. A riving knife

2. Left tilt. Most older saws are right tilt which when cutting bevels can trap wood between the blade and fence.

That said....550 isn't a bad price.

As for brand, don't shop by brand. The same ridgid saw can be bought under at least 4 names with minor changes..and grizzly jet and some others all come out of the same factories.

I agree on all counts with what ryan is saying. Do some research on adding a riving knife/splitter to an older saw. There is plenty of info out there about that. Get a left tilt if at all possible. Be patient. If you have any woodworking stores nearby/in the surrounding area, go there and ask about clubs and/or woodworkers that meet. Try to network with fellow woodworkers, if possible. They could be your largest local resource to knowledge. Ryan is right, don't shop by brand, shop what you have set as your upper limit in price. The usual suspects are powermatic, delta, ridgid, jet, etc can be good saws but there are particular models within all the brands that are better than the others. You just need to start reading up on all of that. Google is your friend... If DC is your area, there are a great many avenues open to you

make a day trip up here
http://woodworkersclub.com/

http://www.woodshopnews.com/news/news-desk/502696-woodworkers-club-expands-in-dc-area

here are more places to check out
http://www.washingtonwoodworkersguild.org/
http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=327
Virginia
Capital Area Woodturners
Meetings: Bryant High School
2709 Papkins Lane
Alexandria, VA
Web site: www.capwoodturners.org
Northern Virginia Carvers
12016 Rosiers Branch Drive
Herndon, VA 20170
Phone: 703-437-9565
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.angelfire.com/va2/nvacarvers/index.html
Washington Woodworkers Guild of the National Capitol Area
6018 High Bluff Trail
Manassas, VA 20111
Contact: Stewart Crick
Phone: 703-331-2172
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.washingtonwoodworkersguild.org


I hope some of this helps. Don't become discouraged with not finding the right fit for you. It takes a little time and you need to be an informed consumer before you buy anything....


Paul

 

[ryan50hrl]

As to the left right tilt thing a well....I should mention that depending on your use that may I may not matter....the type of work I do on my saw, I've never tilted it....ever. Others do daily.

 

[mobilepaul]

As to the left right tilt thing a well....I should mention that depending on your use that may I may not matter....the type of work I do on my saw, I've never tilted it....ever. Others do daily.

I don't tilt mine everyday, but I do tilt it to make angled cuts. I just prefer that, if and when I want or need to make an angled cut on my table saw, I have a left tilt...

Just immerse yourself in any or all of the rich woodworking environment you have in your area. It won't take long to see table saws in action and to start formulating your own opinions about what is right for you. You're fortunate to have so many opportunities up there, we have a small club down here but no woodworking stores within 60 miles...

Paul

 

[knotscott]

How you rate the differences between saws is always a matter of opinion. I would suggest going with a full size saw with a belt drive induction motor, unless you need to move the saw from jobsite to jobsite. The G0715P offers solid cast wings, a full enclosure, and an upgraded fence compared to the R4512. The cast iron wings and better fence are pretty substantial to me....YMMV.

The Delta you showed looked to be a real nice saw for the price. The fence isn't great, but is functional. It does have a full enclosure, cast wings, a strong motor, and very rugged construction.

Here's some reading to help understand the differences between saws better....read all parts if you're interested.

 

[Liebertron]

Thanks for all the help! I think I might be leaning towards getting a cheap saw on a black Friday deal and then figuring out what I really like and down the road and making an expensive purchase. It sounds like from all the advice that I need to use a saw for a bit and figure out what I like before spending a good sum of money. Even a nice saw on sale is too hard for me to determine if it's the right saw for me, so I don't even think I'm going down that road until I get some more hands on wood (haha) experience.

 

[ryan50hrl]

Here's the problem however....working on crappy tools is not fun, therefore you may very well determine that wood working isn't for you. I'd go with that delta saw, you can easily turn around and resell it for that should you decide to upgrade.

 

[Gilgaron]

What about a table top saw, like the Bosch 4100, and making a stand?

That's what I have, and it does me well. All the safety features of a larger saw, except the power switch can't be turned off with a knee. I have the fold up stand with it. I needed to put a thin kerf blade on it once I started working with white oak.

There are times I wish I had more space in front of the blade depending on what I'm doing, but overall it is a great saw.

 

[rbk123]

I had something similar to the Bosch until I bought the 4512. There's no going back for me, that's for sure.

 

[knotscott]

Thanks for all the help! I think I might be leaning towards getting a cheap saw on a black Friday deal and then figuring out what I really like and down the road and making an expensive purchase. It sounds like from all the advice that I need to use a saw for a bit and figure out what I like before spending a good sum of money. Even a nice saw on sale is too hard for me to determine if it's the right saw for me, so I don't even think I'm going down that road until I get some more hands on wood (haha) experience.

Buying a cheap new saw on black friday would be a counterproductive mistake IMO. You'll get a small very loud plastic saw with very little operating space, poor precision, poor power, light weight, poor reliability, poor upgrade options, poor resale, and won't be much fun to use....it'll cut, but in general there's not much of a financial return on that investment. When money is the determining factor, buy a decent inexpensive full size used saw with a belt drive induction motor.....there are many good used full size cast iron contractor saws in the $100-$200 range, and many really nice saws in the $200-$400 range. I'd suggest reading through this if you didn't already...The ABC's of Table Saws.

 

[mobilepaul]

Thanks for all the help! I think I might be leaning towards getting a cheap saw on a black Friday deal and then figuring out what I really like and down the road and making an expensive purchase. It sounds like from all the advice that I need to use a saw for a bit and figure out what I like before spending a good sum of money. Even a nice saw on sale is too hard for me to determine if it's the right saw for me, so I don't even think I'm going down that road until I get some more hands on wood (haha) experience.

I don't agree with the black friday saw (BFS) that is why I recommended getting with other woodworkers/club and you'd get to use some of the better saws and ask questions. You need to see what is out there before you purchase, in my opinion, instead of spending any money on a saw you feel you won't keep from the git-go. Most of the people in our club do not own a table saw until a good bit of time after joining. They use the powermatic that is in our shop and learn about good table saw technique and safety and THEN buy a saw. But, ultimately, it's all up to you. We can only guide you to the water, you have to drink it...

Paul

I mean, I have a Ridgid contractor saw that I've used for years and it's great out on the jobsite. I've built cabinets with it onsite and done just about whatever I needed to do with it. I love that saw but I love my PM2000 as well... A black friday saw will be nowhere near the quality of even a jobsite saw.

 

[Liebertron]

I was thinking that maybe I could score the ridged 4512 or the craftsman version of it on black Friday, I wasn't going to go table top, though maybe the whole idea isn't good.

I think I'll head to the local wood shops and investigate before I buy like suggested. I think that's a good idea.

 

[knotscott]

I was thinking that maybe I could score the ridged 4512 or the craftsman version of it on black Friday, I wasn't going to go table top.....

IMO that's a much better idea than the benchtops I was envisioning. :thumbsup: