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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been toying with the idea of a real shop for some time now (since i moved to this house with my wife. We have a 30'x30' concrete slab on the property that i would love to convert to a shop. So tonight i ask my wonderful wife if she would let me take some money out to build my shop. And to my surprise she said YES...unbelievable. Tho the fact that she wants a new kitchen, bedroom,kid playset etc.. might have something to do with it.

Anyway, I have a budget of $7000 for the tools.
"Unfortunatly" i need to take the Sawstop as a table saw, even if i think it is overpriced, because since she saw the video on their website, it is that saw or no shop. So now i am left with 3500 for the tools.

i need a :
router :i have a ryobi 11/4HP for now. was thinking of a 2 1/4

Mitter saw : i have a ryobi, i wouldn't changing because i didn't take one with a laser and it is really nice to have one.

Lathe : i was thinking of a jet mini VS but if i want to do table legs it might not be enough, but the main reason i want a lathe is to turn chess pieces (because i love chess piece) and a benchtop one would be nice. Can you really turn that small of piece on a bigger one?

Jointer: i was thinking either a 6" delta or jet or a 8" grizzly. i read the thread of texasTimbers about going for a 8" but i still have some doubt.Not really for the price but mostly about the difference in blade style.

Drill press: don't have one. Is it really worth it to spend 350 against a 150 one?

Bandsaw : same question as the Drill press.

Planer: i was thinking of a small 13" planer but i am still unsure about the usefulness VS a drum sander. i don't really think i will work with really rough boards.

Dust collector: I am still debating between a "cheap" delta one for 300 or building one.

Sharpener: i really like the price of the class plate sharpener but the WS3000 seam really nice, but with the small carving tools will use i really wonder if the WS3000 would be that effective. Any thoughts?

I am planing on building most of the tables and stuff and also upgrade some of the accessories.

I will get good long clamps and upgrade my router bits.
For now i have ryobi bits + some cheap one bought on the internet ($20 for a lock miter bit for example) Since i will do a little more work i was thinking of upgrading the basic one i have and buying a cabinet kit. Any suggestion on a good "cheap" ones ?


i read that HSS i the way to go to lathe tools.

Any help would be greatly appreciated


Regis
 

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When working with a limited budget

the first thing to do is priortize the necessities before you add in the wants. The following are my opinions only and I am sure that they will be worth every penny they cost you. MH (Must Have) #1 is the table saw. I wouldn't be bullied into the sawstop. I would look for a Jet or Grizzly (or comparable) 10" Cabinet saw. This will be the backbone of any shop. Used is great but not as great as new. In any case, get the 50" rip fence. As for accessories for the saw, I would recommend a Woodworker II for the general purpose blade. For the miter guage, I would recommend the Osbourne EB-3 or the Incra 2000 as runner up. MH #2 is a good dust collection system with piping and blast gates for each tool that will be connected. MH #3 is a good CMS (Compound Miter Saw) with laser sighting. My favorite is the 12" SCMS (Sliding Compound Miter Saw). Upgrade with the laser from Laserkerf. It illuminates the width of the saw blade so the laser guide is good for cutting on either side of the blade and it does not require the blade to be spinning to turn it on. This is a real safety plus when lining up for tricky cuts. MH #4 is a 15" stationary thickness planer. This will quickly pay for itself when you compare the cost of rough cut lumber to finished lumber. Not to mention that it will eliminate the thickness variations you will be forced to accept in commercially prepped hardwoods. After these tools are in place, you decide the rest based on your projects. In my opinion, the last thing to add would be the lathe. Best of luck.

Ed
 

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Andrew Close
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hi regis, welcome to the forum. :smile:

I have been toying with the idea of a real shop for some time now (since i moved to this house with my wife. We have a 30'x30' concrete slab on the property that i would love to convert to a shop. So tonight i ask my wonderful wife if she would let me take some money out to build my shop. And to my surprise she said YES...unbelievable. Tho the fact that she wants a new kitchen, bedroom,kid playset etc.. might have something to do with it.
congrats, and where did you find your wife? :smile: 30x30! wow, i'm jealous. my 'shop' is the half bay of my garage.

Anyway, I have a budget of $7000 for the tools.
"Unfortunatly" i need to take the Sawstop as a table saw, even if i think it is overpriced, because since she saw the video on their website, it is that saw or no shop. So now i am left with 3500 for the tools.
only $7000, and you must have the SawStop. bummer. ;)
again, where did you find your wife? :smile:
SawStop is planning on coming out with a 10" contractors saw this year. it should be significantly cheaper than their cabinet saw and still have many of the features: true riving knife, blade break, cast top.

i need a :
router :i have a ryobi 11/4HP for now. was thinking of a 2 1/4
i just picked up a DeWalt 618B3 at Home Depot for roughly $170. it's a 2 1/4 HP router with three bases, standard base, plunge base, and a 'D' handle. it is a variable speed with soft start. changing the base is a snap and it has a pretty decent height adjustable collar for raising/lowering the bit. it seemed like a pretty good deal for the price and had all the features i was looking for.

Mitter saw : i have a ryobi, i wouldn't changing because i didn't take one with a laser and it is really nice to have one.
my $.02; i'd stick with the Miter Saw you currently have and just upgrade the blade until the saw is no longer sufficient. you can always build a crosscut sled for that nice table saw of yours. and then you can spend the rest of your tool cash on something you don't already own.

Lathe : i was thinking of a jet mini VS...
i'd only pick up a lathe if you 'knew' you were going to be turning or really wanted to start.

Jointer: i was thinking either a 6" delta or jet or a 8" grizzly. i read the thread of texasTimbers about going for a 8" but i still have some doubt.Not really for the price but mostly about the difference in blade style.
i'm still trying to figure that out as well. i don't have a jointer yet, but i also haven't done much work with rough sawn lumber. my understanding is that the jointer and planer will pay for themselves if you work with rough sawn instead of preprocessed lumber.

Drill press: don't have one. Is it really worth it to spend 350 against a 150 one?
i have a small table standing drill press and would really like a floor standing unit if i had the $$$ and room.

Bandsaw : same question as the Drill press.
same as the drill press. i have a small table unit, basically a step up from a scrollsaw. having a larger unit would allow for re-sawing of lumber which may end up saving you $$$ in the long run.

Planer: i was thinking of a small 13" planer but i am still unsure about the usefulness VS a drum sander. i don't really think i will work with really rough boards.
same advice as the jointer (as far as i understand). the bigger the better, it will pay for itself in the long run.

Dust collector: I am still debating between a "cheap" delta one for 300 or building one.
this is a must have, especially if your shop is 'in' the house. i don't have a sufficient system (yet), but my 'shop' is in the detached garage and i've been trying to keep the space adequately vented and wear a mask. since it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of tools (yet), a smaller system that you roll around and attach to each machine will be sufficient for the time being. if your shop is in the house you should renegotiate your budget and get extra cash for a larger, stationary unit and do whole shop collection. your wife will thank you for the added expense in the long run since you will really cut down on the dust you spread throughout the rest of your living space. ;)

Sharpener: i really like the price of the class plate sharpener but the WS3000 seam really nice, but with the small carving tools will use i really wonder if the WS3000 would be that effective. Any thoughts?
i can't speak to this. do you have a lot of hand tools that you need to sharpen? would it be more cost effective to have them sharpened for you until you've acquired the other 'needed' tools and can afford a sharpener?

i suppose i should have prefaced my comments with: 'i am a woodworking n00b ;)', so take them with a grain of salt.

good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
the Lathe is a must i really want to use it that's for sure...i was thinking of picking a henry Taylor mini tool set or is there something better for tiny pieces?

The stopsaw is really expensive i know but i really don;t think my wife will let me have a "regular" one. As far as a contractor one i don;t really see the point considering the premium it will carry.

A good SCMS is a dream but ouch the price.... especially if i need to add $300 for a couple of blades. If i upgrade i was thinking of the delta 12" with laser for $270...

The planer i was indeed looking at a 15" especially after looking at grizzly prices.

tho i read that grizzly do need some minor tuneup to be at its peak.
 

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What to get depends alot on what types of things you'll be doing, and at what level. There are always many ways to do things, but if you use hardwoods, the traditional way of dimensioning stock involves a jointer, planer, and TS. That method gives you flat, straight stock to start every project, and also offers a lot of flexibility about where to source your wood. I'd be inclined to buy the 8" jointer, and a 12-13" portable planer (15" stationary if you can swing it), and a reasonable DC unit. That should leave ~ $1500 to $2k for a BS, DP, lathe, sander, additional router/router table, and the ever important "miscellaneous" stuff...blades, cutters, clamps, etc. Doable for $2k if you don't need commercial caliber tools, and if you find some good deals. You don't need to do it all at once. Used machinery is always a good method of getting the most for your buck.

Good luck and please keep us updated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i will be doing a good deal of cabinetry and furniture (i can see from here numerous orders from my wife and family). I am not a pro by any mean but i do learned a lot during the past few years and i do want good tools so i don't have to buy again in a couple of years.

i went on grizzly and the price are so great that i can almost fit everything i would want (vs what i can afford/ need) ..nice. and it even include (most) of the addons, tenoning jig, clamps, more clamps. I will get my blades from Forrest i think and see if i can get a TS localy at sears or whereever.
 

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It sounds like you're jumping in over you're head. It's great you are getting you new shop but don't just buy,buy,buy to fill it. Things like the lathe are great but have you used one do you realy know that a mini will suite your needs and the chop saw all you seem to care about is the laser. Thats not what gives you good cuts, never had one and don't think I'll even care if it's on the next one I buy. You're on the right track but you need to slow down and take your time. With that size shop I personaly would only buy full size tools, lathe, drill press and band saw for example are nice to have full size and not that much more $ as full size. The Sawstop is a neat tool put I never have found out if it will cut wet treated wood? and it ruins the blade and the stop wedge when it goes off, worth it if you keep your fingers for sure though;) , but that's about $160 to replace and down time that would kill me:thumbdown: . I personaly have the Grizzly 18" bandsaw, 20" planer, floor drillpress, 2 hp dust collector, and 10" contractor saw. I have had the saw and planer for over 13 years without any plroblems other than a small part I broke and they replaced in about 1 week for $20. They do need a little tuning when you get them but most tools do. I also have done I little turning and would wait until you can get the best/biggest tool for your money they are very bad tools to make do with. Good luck and post some photos as you build
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kingfisher don;t worry i won't buy buy buy...but understand the man, last night his wife said yes so for now he is still the kid that just received christmas catalogs. :D

For the miter saw i want to replace my Ryobi.It is a nice little saw but the cut is so so even with a medium quality blade, i find it vibrate a little too much. Plus a 12" is kind of interesting as more than once i ended up using the circular saw to do angled cuts.

As far as the sawstop i know it is not the best option. i mean $2000 more without shipping that the grizzly with shipping is kind of sad. But quite frankly i am not sure i will be able to convince my wife. The wet wood part is problematic indeed, false positive are in general. I mean looking the blade go down and killing it must not be a pretty sight.

For the lathe quite franckly i am not a huge fan of round legs and the only thing that really pushes me to get a lathe is small chess pieces turning and modeling, i have a small collection but to play with none a really "right" good size wrong weight, good weight wrong size. Anyway the lathe is more as a hobby hobby than a hobby redoing all the house furniture.


For the dust collector i was thinking of the cheapest cyclone. it should do the trick hopefully.
 

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Well it seems the good folks over a Saw Stop and their shock & scare tactics worked.:censored:

Hows this for a tactic.....KEEP YOUR DIGITS OUTTA THE BLADE PATH AND PAY ATTENTION!!!!! Sheesh.:glare:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
well i really think the SawStop people try to make too much money too fast. But on the other hand an accident is quick to happen.

Quite frankly i will try to talk her out of it, especially after reading about the few false positive i am a little concerned about having to spend $200 a year just in blades and brakes on false positive on top of the $3500 for the table...

will see
 

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Saw Stop has been claiming that a contractor saw is coming in Spring of '06...oh wait, Spring of '07, or maybe it's '08 or '09, but they say it's coming! :blink: Lower cost if it does...
 

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flatiron
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I would buy as much used equipment as possible, more equipment less money. the saw stop price is less than hospital and surgy bills. I know from personal experience. the saw is up to you. get a good fence system is worth its weight in gold. 13'' or 15'' portable planer,14'' bandsaw , jointer 6'' or 8 " perferable the latter and lathe does't have to be a big one. Buy the best hand tools you can afford. keep your chop saw, put a better blade in it. buy as the need comes. You should build a couple sleds for you table saw, big and small one handy as heck. these are tools I feel I need on a daily basis. I use rough sawn lumber only costs less and can be dimensioned to any thickness i want for each job. there is a lot of expensive gagits out there but they not needed. Every body may not agree and that cool. get to work before she changes her mind!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i am really torn, if i get the sawstop i am eating half my budget and that sucks...but on the other hand indeed it is cheaper that medical bills and to have only one hand to play ball with my two boys.
 

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I almost bought a Sawstop. My feeling is that the stopping mechanism isn't for the thousand times you do everything right, it's for that one time when you do something wrong. Cheap insurance.

I have a 10" Grizzly with the 7' rails and I love the thing. It replaced a 14" Rockwell with a mandrel mounted blade. It runs many hours a week doing everything from tropicals like afromasia to sheetgoods and never skips a beat. I'm soon to buy either an Altendorf or SCM 10' slider, but I'll be keeping the Grizzly.

I have an 8" Grizzly jointer. It replaced a fifty-odd year old 12" jointer/thicknesser. It does a very good job although the fence locking mechanism could be better. For the money, it's as good as any that cost twice as much. If I were running more than a couple hundred or so board feet a week, I'd probably buy the SCM, but that's a different discussion. At some point I'm going to buy a 12-18" jointer. Grizzly has one that I like and is in the running.

I have a 15" Grizzly thicknesser that does a whole lot better than I thought it would. It planes beautifully and as long as you support the ends of the boards and don't bang on the infeed and outfeed tables, it's almost snipe free. There is one little annoyance that could be fixed, but it's more of an operator error. If you don't feed the board in flat, it will gouge the end. If you're careful, then no problem.

I have a Grizzly 17" bandsaw. It replaced a huge, three-wheeled, 30-40 something inch throated patternmakers bandsaw. I love the thing. It's the heavier duty one with the cast iron wheels. I can resaw paper thin hardwood. I've used it to flatten very hard woods before thicknessing. I very nearly bought a Laguna, but after playing with the Grizzly, decided that I'd keep the extra 3 grand.

I have a Ridgid floor model drill press. It's a good drill press. Not a great drill press, but a good one. It does everything I need it to, but if I were doing any metalwork I'd step up.

I'm one of those guys who doesn't like lasers on my tools. I don't think they're accurate enough. That little line is too wide for me. If you take that laser line and add it to your pencil or knife line, then I think you're making life annoying. It's just as fast to line up the edge of the cutting tip on the line. But some people like them and I say to each their own.

My shop is in operation 50-60 hours a week with anywhere from one to five guys working. I admit I had a few qualms about buying so many Grizzly machines, but have to say that a year and a half after updating the shop, I have almost zero machinery concerns where with my old iron I was constantly trying to figure out how to keep things running.
 

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Even after haveing a tablesaw accident......... I still wouldn't get the sawstop. See I know whay my accident happened.... I was tired... figured I should quit... but didn't....... I said "right adter i finish ripping these narrow pcs" well I got Bit by the blade......... Do I use the Guard... NO but I Am alot more careful when cutting.... I have more push sticks kicking around..... The false possitives are still a issue..... Maybe if SHE'S willing to go out and get the blades you'd need to replace for the false positives.....
 

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I believe you're supposed to turn the blade brake off when cutting pressure treated or excessively wet wood. Also when cutting metal like aluminum or copper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
PK...i was thinking of getting that TS (if i don;t get the sawstop) and that jointer and planer...good to see some feedback about them.
 

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It's great but today I'd buy their new 12" with the riving knife. I almost bought the G7210 so I could use my old blades, but decided I would be adding a slider anyway so didn't really need it.

Good luck with whatever you buy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
well...i have been looking around more seriously since my head cooled down a little.
I checked into having a 220V line go to my shop and it is way to expensive..even if i do it myself. So i will limit myself to 110V and go with an Hybrid. i tell myself that i will have more money for wood and that anyway for now it will be a huge upgrade for me anyway.

what is bothering me tho is that i am forced to downgrade from 2hp to 1.5hp on my dust system.
 
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