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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Not trying to detract from J_Lindgaard's Bessler's Wheel thread. I have however designed a mechanism from wood as a prototype for a magnetic energy project that will be my 10th attempt at building an actual magnetic motor. (drawings attached)

The principle is using something that already works great called a magnetic gun. A stator magnet is passed through an angled row of bar magnets that accelerates to three times it's original speed when it exits the rows of angled magnets.

The frame and wheel is made of a sturdy wood that is simple in design. If this mechanism actually works, there will be free energy produced.

motor10.0-a.pdf is the assembly drawing and motor10.0-b.pdf is the parts drawing...
 

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A couple questions.

1) what starts the process?
2) what "resets" the process?
3) what is this intended to be used for, if anything?
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #3
A couple questions.

1) what starts the process?
2) what "resets" the process?
3) what is this intended to be used for, if anything?
1. The process is started by hand.
2. There are 4 stators, so where one leaves off, the next kicks in.
3. Mechanical energy can be taken from the axle to run "whatever" will run from "whatever" excess energy, "if any", is created.

Making no claims here. Just love to piddle around in my free time.
 

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Timothy, I think I see what you're trying to do here. I was under the impression from your description that the axle was the moving part. I've had a minute to look at the drawings now and have some other questions.

1) How did you determine your "three times original speed"?
2) What are you considering "original speed"?
3) What size are the "large" and "small" magnets or is this intended to be scalable?
4) Speed is great but what kind of torque do you think you'll get? You're not driving anything of weight without torque so how do you expect to generate it?
5) Is this "free energy" supposed to be the prime source of motion or is it intended to augment something else?
6) Have you considered the weight of the magnets in this scenario? It will be a significant factor unless you have a very efficient set of bearings.
 

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Sawdust Creator
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I wish you the best of luck, but the idea that your creating energy flys in the face of the laws of conservation of energy. At most, you'll be able to recapture some of the energy you put in the system by starting it by hand. And if you ran this on magnetic bearings, in a vacuum..you may be able to get it to run for a long period of time. However as soon as you attempt to pull some energy off to run something....you'll only get as much energy out as you put in
 

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I played with some thing like this once, then I realized that some folks who are way way smarter then me, have already determined this type stuff doesn't work, seems like it will, but it won't, and they had millions of dollars and ever piece of equipment they needed.

BUT...being an optimist, suppose you do stumble onto some thing, posting your plan...BAD IDEA...because some one is gonna get it a patent on it before you and like Tesala every one will get rich, but you, on your idea and you dye pennyless....:laughing: ..so what you should do is ask your questions, but be specific to what you need to know, without detailing the entire idea and all it's parts, in short be VAGUE
 

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I played with some thing like this once, then I realized that some folks who are way way smarter then me, have already determined this type stuff doesn't work, seems like it will, but it won't.

BUT...being an optimist, suppose you do stumble onto some thing, posting your plan...BAD IDEA...because some one is gonna get it a patent on it before you and like Tesala every one will get rich, but you, on your idea and you dye pennyless....:laughing: ..so what you should do is ask your questions, but be specific to what you need to know, without detailing the entire idea and all it's parts, in short be VAGUE
Actually posting his plan publicly is the best way to ensure someone else can't steal it. That's actually the point behind the patent system. (The patent process is the "public posting" of the plan.)

If a patent is issued after his plans are posted then the patent becomes null and void. It may be a moot point but that's what actually would happen.
 

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Actually posting his plan publicly is the best way to ensure someone else can't steal it. That's actually they point behind the patent system. (The patent process is the "public posting" of the plan.)

If a patent is issued after his plans are posted then the patent becomes null and void. It may be a moot point but that's what actually would happen.
WRONG...

Quote: It is particularly easy to inadvertently com-
promise one’s patent rights. Although the
date on which an inventor conceives of a new
idea can be important, protection does not
exist until a patent issues


From

http://www.bannerwitcoff.com/_docs/library/articles/iprights.pdf

He might be able to prove it, but it will take years to do, and millions of dollars in legal fees, first to the patent office often wins the game. that is why drug companies, auto companies etc...guard their ideas so strongly every thing is done in secret and every one involved is sworn to it.
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #9
Timothy, I think I see what you're trying to do here. I was under the impression from your description that the axle was the moving part. I've had a minute to look at the drawings now and have some other questions.

1) How did you determine your "three times original speed"?
2) What are you considering "original speed"?
3) What size are the "large" and "small" magnets or is this intended to be scalable?
4) Speed is great but what kind of torque do you think you'll get? You're not driving anything of weight without torque so how do you expect to generate it?
5) Is this "free energy" supposed to be the prime source of motion or is it intended to augment something else?
6) Have you considered the weight of the magnets in this scenario? It will be a significant factor unless you have a very efficient set of bearings.
1 & 2. Original speed was determined from my previous projects, a few of which flew apart after a few seconds. I should have gone into more depth when I wrote that. Sorry...
With the first and second models, within the first few seconds I had about 30 rpm. Then on the third and forth models, the back lash from the stator passing through the "gate of angled magnets" gradually slowed these to a halt. The fifth, sixth, seventh, and eight models, which were similar configurations would actually speed up to three times the original but flew apart in about 40 to 45 seconds. I used heavier bar magnets in those models and didn't fasten the magnets sufficiently to the wheel.

3. Magnet sizes are noted on the plans.

4. I don't believe I can even calculate the torque until I have an efficiency of motion can I? RPM = ???

5. Is there really such a thing as "Free Energy"? Can we even consider hydro or wind power as "Free Energy"? That would be perpetual motion wouldn't it? Even the water flow running a turbine would at one time or another be reduced or actually dry up and stop flowing or the wind change direction or completely stop.
Free Energy would suggest that a mechanism built by man would be indestructable. I don't believe that's possible. Nope, there's nothing free...

6. Yep, weight is a factor which totally wrecked a couple of my models.
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #10
Not interested in a patent folks. If someone takes this idea and proves it, the benefits outweigh everything.
 
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Not interested in a patent folks. If someone takes this idea and proves it, the benefits outweigh everything.
:laughing:...damn Timothy...you and Tesla...brilliant with over abundance of idealism and absolutely no business sense...:laughing:... But I do wish you luck, looks interesting, I made a magnetic band saw fence, wasn't as complicated as what your doing with magnets...:laughing:
 

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Sawdust Creator
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Hydro and wind aren't anywhere near free energy. They're as pure I a conversion from kinetic to electrical as exists.
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #13
Hydro and wind aren't anywhere near free energy. They're as pure I a conversion from kinetic to electrical as exists.
That wasn't my point though.
 

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WRONG...

Quote: It is particularly easy to inadvertently com-
promise one’s patent rights. Although the
date on which an inventor conceives of a new
idea can be important, protection does not
exist until a patent issues


From

http://www.bannerwitcoff.com/_docs/library/articles/iprights.pdf

He might be able to prove it, but it will take years to do, and millions of dollars in legal fees, first to the patent office often wins the game. that is why drug companies, auto companies etc...guard their ideas so strongly every thing is done in secret and every one involved is sworn to it.
As I know several people personally who work in the patent office, I'll respectfully disagree with your link. First, the patent is no longer valid if you can prove prior art. Period. In fact, it should never have been granted in the first place if there's prior art. Publicly posted plans definitely qualify as prior art.

Yes, you have to protect your IP, but that is actually the legal requirement to protect your own patent rights, not to nullify someone else's. Yes, proving it in court can be expensive, which is why I said it might be a moot point. That in no way makes my point wrong, however.
 

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That wasn't my point though.
My point wasn't whether or not the energy was actually "free". My point was are you thinking this could be a primary drive or an augmentation of a separate system, say an electric motor that "shuts off" once these come up to speed or what?
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #16
:laughing:...damn Timothy...you and Tesla...brilliant with over abundance of idealism and absolutely no business sense...:laughing:... But I do wish you luck, looks interesting, I made a magnetic band saw fence, wasn't as complicated as what your doing with magnets...:laughing:
Got any photo's of that band saw fence GoNavy? By the way, I'm a navy man myself.
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #17
My point wasn't whether or not the energy was actually "free". My point was are you thinking this could be a primary drive or an augmentation of a separate system, say an electric motor that "shuts off" once these come up to speed or what?
Yes, I am thinking that, but it doesn't haunt my every waking hour. Imagine though that say for one minute, 100% of everyone who says this wouldn't work were wrong. What would be the possibilities? Just asking...
 

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Got any photo's of that band saw fence GoNavy? By the way, I'm a navy man myself.
Thanks, always happy to meet another squid...lol...as long as he not a bubble head, anyone who goes on a boat designed to sink, just ain't right....nah just kidding, they are alright too. Anyways did a write up on the fence in home made jig section, it works quite well, have used it several times without a problem. Some times the simplest things work the best, you can make anything over complicated.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/home-made-magnetic-bandsaw-fence-58276/


.
 

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Drafting Teacher
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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Now that's slicker than snot on a door knob Navy. Thanks for the link... Served on the USS Howard W. Gilmore (AS-16) by the way. It was a sub tender. It's razor blades now.. Not all bubble heads get to stay under ship mate.
 
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