Left tilt or right tilt?
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Joined
·
646 Posts
Jake: IF you do alot of long miter cuts than left is the only way to go.
Lots of reasons left is safer,better for miter cuts, other than that really doesnt make a lot of difference.
I have right tilt mainly cause I could not get a left and was really bummed out however I have use it every day now for close to 8 years and can honestly say I havent really had any issues that I thought I would. So miters YES left otherwise pick one. IF u have a choice of equal saws for equal price than go left
Lots of reasons left is safer,better for miter cuts, other than that really doesnt make a lot of difference.
I have right tilt mainly cause I could not get a left and was really bummed out however I have use it every day now for close to 8 years and can honestly say I havent really had any issues that I thought I would. So miters YES left otherwise pick one. IF u have a choice of equal saws for equal price than go left
Joined
·
512 Posts
I agree on this 110%:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Joined
·
19 Posts
this is prolly a realy dumb question, but you mean the blade goes to the left like this: \ ?
i think my portable rigid saw is a left tilt and i didnt even realize they come the other way.
whay exactly is the advantage of the left tilt? why is it better?
i think my portable rigid saw is a left tilt and i didnt even realize they come the other way.
whay exactly is the advantage of the left tilt? why is it better?
Joined
·
512 Posts
One of the problems with right tilt is mitering longer stock. The blade pushes the stock into the fence which makes 1- a high probable chance of kick back and 2- scares the wood.
I hardly ever need a left tilt but if I had a choice I would chose the left tilt just for this reason.
My portable is left tilt to.
I hardly ever need a left tilt but if I had a choice I would chose the left tilt just for this reason.
My portable is left tilt to.
Joined
·
646 Posts
The really stupid irony is this: ALL the small portable tablesaws are left tilt, they are also too small and too dangerous to do any mitering safely, Yes I have one also. Contractor saws, and most "normal" tablesaws which are used in shops where a contractor most likely would miter are of course RIGHT handed and too dangerous to miter on. Just plain stupid, that said most all tablesaws now offer either left or right hand tilt, finally some sense!
As I said if all things, price etc are equal go Left it is a much more versatile saw.
As I said if all things, price etc are equal go Left it is a much more versatile saw.
Well, in Europe we use only right tilt blades and there is no any problem with kickbacks but of course, we use also the riving knife, "short fence" and "low fence"
On the drawing below, you can see how the British are teaching the correct way to make a bevel cut, and believe me that the USA, OSHA safety regulations looks like the "Wild west" comparing to the British safety regulations that are very much influenced by the "Unions" that wants safe working environment for the employees and don't care how much it will cost....
niki
![]()
On the drawing below, you can see how the British are teaching the correct way to make a bevel cut, and believe me that the USA, OSHA safety regulations looks like the "Wild west" comparing to the British safety regulations that are very much influenced by the "Unions" that wants safe working environment for the employees and don't care how much it will cost....
niki
Joined
·
646 Posts
niki; WHAT? You have got to be kidding! That is the most dangerous thing i have seen in years! You are using a fence on the WASTE side of a cut! I can only presume they have an ambulance stationed at every tablesaw that is used that way.:thumbdown::no:
.
You are going to pinch that sucker,then stuff it into your gut, take out anyone nearby, not to mention wrecking the machine.
NFW
Jack
.You are going to pinch that sucker,then stuff it into your gut, take out anyone nearby, not to mention wrecking the machine.
NFW
Jack
Hi Jack
I'm not kidding, that is the way that we do it across the pond and I don't see any danger...
As I said, we are also using the riving knife and short/low fence.
The riving knife, will keep the wood from touching the blade and the short fence will prevent any kickback in case of internal stresses that might be released.
As I said, the British are very strict with safety regulations...if an inspector will see you (not as an amateur but registered business) working without riving knife and blade guard (even for non through cuts like dado)...you are out of business...
Just for an example; from 2008, all the woodworking and metal working cutting machines shall have to be equipped with a brake that will stop the rotation within 10 seconds (and they mean also all the older machinery) and nobody cares how much it will cost...
Regards
niki
I'm not kidding, that is the way that we do it across the pond and I don't see any danger...
As I said, we are also using the riving knife and short/low fence.
The riving knife, will keep the wood from touching the blade and the short fence will prevent any kickback in case of internal stresses that might be released.
As I said, the British are very strict with safety regulations...if an inspector will see you (not as an amateur but registered business) working without riving knife and blade guard (even for non through cuts like dado)...you are out of business...
Just for an example; from 2008, all the woodworking and metal working cutting machines shall have to be equipped with a brake that will stop the rotation within 10 seconds (and they mean also all the older machinery) and nobody cares how much it will cost...
Regards
niki
Joined
·
646 Posts
Niki; man nothing personal but you guys are nutz, there is NO guidance to that rip other than the cutoff!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alt least put the damn fence on the LEFT side of the pc. That is the safe way to do it with a right tilt blade.
If anybody in a shop over here were to do that his Butt would be bouncing off the street for a week:yes: Instant fired
If anybody in a shop over here were to do that his Butt would be bouncing off the street for a week:yes: Instant fired
Niki,
I am curious about the low height fence and how it, with the knife, avoids binding and kickbacks. I think you know exactly what you are talking about. Does the low fence allow the top of the cutoff piece to rotate slightly away from the blade, thereby relieving pressure against the blade? Or what is the theory?
I am curious about the low height fence and how it, with the knife, avoids binding and kickbacks. I think you know exactly what you are talking about. Does the low fence allow the top of the cutoff piece to rotate slightly away from the blade, thereby relieving pressure against the blade? Or what is the theory?
Skymaster
I'll try to make for you a test cut "in front of the cameras" if the weather will let me to take the car out of the garage.
I know that it's very difficult to accept the right tilt blade but I think that it's because most of the American TS's are not equipped with riving knife and short fence and even the splitter is many times "still packed in original plastic bag"... :smile:
Daveb
The low height fence is only to give you a good access for the push stick when you make shallow cuts and/or to avoid the blade to come in contact with the fence when it's tilted for bevel cut.
You can try it by just making an L shape from two plywood scrapes and clamping it to the original fence. You will see how convenient it is to use a push stick when the fence is set 1" from the blade (you can even use you fingers to push the wood because the palm has a space but please don't do it).
The short fence is the one that in conjunction with the riving knife will prevent the kick back.
I'm talking about solid wood that might have internal stresses that will be released after the wood passes the front teeth of the blade.
The riving knife will keep the wood from coming in contact with the up-rising teeth of the blade but, if because of some released stresses, the wood will bend into the fence....well, the fence is stronger (clamped to the table) so the wood will press on the blade and even with the riving knife, you might get a kickback.
By using "short fence" that extends only 1"~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade, even if the wood will bend, there is no fence to press against so, no kickback.
Did you noticed that those "safety fanatic" British (and all EU) do not require Anti-kickback pawls...maybe, they know why...
If you like to see the "short fence" in action, please have a look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QXIN2X8-w&feature=user
I'm adding a few pics of the fence on my TS (Metabo)
Note; the fence can be extended to full length for cutting man-made boards that does not have any internal stresses.
Regards
niki
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
I'll try to make for you a test cut "in front of the cameras" if the weather will let me to take the car out of the garage.
I know that it's very difficult to accept the right tilt blade but I think that it's because most of the American TS's are not equipped with riving knife and short fence and even the splitter is many times "still packed in original plastic bag"... :smile:
Daveb
The low height fence is only to give you a good access for the push stick when you make shallow cuts and/or to avoid the blade to come in contact with the fence when it's tilted for bevel cut.
You can try it by just making an L shape from two plywood scrapes and clamping it to the original fence. You will see how convenient it is to use a push stick when the fence is set 1" from the blade (you can even use you fingers to push the wood because the palm has a space but please don't do it).
The short fence is the one that in conjunction with the riving knife will prevent the kick back.
I'm talking about solid wood that might have internal stresses that will be released after the wood passes the front teeth of the blade.
The riving knife will keep the wood from coming in contact with the up-rising teeth of the blade but, if because of some released stresses, the wood will bend into the fence....well, the fence is stronger (clamped to the table) so the wood will press on the blade and even with the riving knife, you might get a kickback.
By using "short fence" that extends only 1"~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade, even if the wood will bend, there is no fence to press against so, no kickback.
Did you noticed that those "safety fanatic" British (and all EU) do not require Anti-kickback pawls...maybe, they know why...
If you like to see the "short fence" in action, please have a look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QXIN2X8-w&feature=user
I'm adding a few pics of the fence on my TS (Metabo)
Note; the fence can be extended to full length for cutting man-made boards that does not have any internal stresses.
Regards
niki
Hi Skymaster
As I promised I took some pics "in action"....did you talked to the "weather Gods" :smile:
That's the first method
![]()
![]()
When I want to cut at the very edge, I'm using the "thin strips sled"
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Or, the vacuum sled
![]()
![]()
If the board is wide and long, I'm using the "feather rollers"
![]()
![]()
Regards
niki
As I promised I took some pics "in action"....did you talked to the "weather Gods" :smile:
That's the first method
When I want to cut at the very edge, I'm using the "thin strips sled"
Or, the vacuum sled
If the board is wide and long, I'm using the "feather rollers"
Regards
niki
Joined
·
112 Posts
as a british woodworker i can say this is the only way to go in safety terms. the waste is`nt on fence side its the opposite and as nikki rightly pointed out the low fence position allows you use the pushstick on the fence side, plus for the thin strips prevents the blade hitting the fence when the blade is tiltedniki; WHAT? You have got to be kidding! That is the most dangerous thing i have seen in years! You are using a fence on the WASTE side of a cut! I can only presume they have an ambulance stationed at every tablesaw that is used that way.:thumbdown::no:
You are going to pinch that sucker,then stuff it into your gut, take out anyone nearby, not to mention wrecking the machine.
NFW
Jack
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Sorry Niki, but I have to agree with skymaster on this one.
I have had that cut off peice come back and leave a nasty bruise a little to close to the business area.
I have also seen a right tilt send a cutoff about 75ft across the shop.
From my experiences, I will stick to a left tilt saw.
I have had that cut off peice come back and leave a nasty bruise a little to close to the business area.
I have also seen a right tilt send a cutoff about 75ft across the shop.
From my experiences, I will stick to a left tilt saw.
Vinnyb76
Thank you for your supportive reply
Woodman
No problem at all
Our saws in Europe are equipped with riving knives and Low/High fences so that's the way we go.
I would not dare to cut that way without, at least, a riving knife.
Most of the American designed table saws are equipped with splitter that sits too far behind the blade (if it "sits" at all) and long high fence so for you guys the best way to stay away from kickbacks is left tilt.
But even with left tilt blade, I think that, if there is no something very close to the rear teeth of the blade...and I mean, riving knife...you'll still have the danger that the workpiece will pinch the rear teeth and kickback...I don't see any difference if the blade is at 90° or at 45°.
If you have seen a workpiece after kickback (I've seen it only on pictures), you'll see that the teeth created kind of a quarter circle marks...that means that the workpiece was lifted on top of the blade and than turned counter-clockwise, while the pivot is the fence, and thrown back while continuing to turn.
The only thing that can prevent this initial pinching is the riving knife that sits very close (1/8") to the blade.
Please have a look at this video to see it in fast and slow motion
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584/table_saw_kickback_demonstration/
I did not mention the "help" of the long fence to the kickback because, it's relevant only in case of problematic wood with internal stresses...but you never know if the wood is "normal" or "problematic" until the UFO's are flying...:smile:
Regards
niki
Thank you for your supportive reply
Woodman
No problem at all
Our saws in Europe are equipped with riving knives and Low/High fences so that's the way we go.
I would not dare to cut that way without, at least, a riving knife.
Most of the American designed table saws are equipped with splitter that sits too far behind the blade (if it "sits" at all) and long high fence so for you guys the best way to stay away from kickbacks is left tilt.
But even with left tilt blade, I think that, if there is no something very close to the rear teeth of the blade...and I mean, riving knife...you'll still have the danger that the workpiece will pinch the rear teeth and kickback...I don't see any difference if the blade is at 90° or at 45°.
If you have seen a workpiece after kickback (I've seen it only on pictures), you'll see that the teeth created kind of a quarter circle marks...that means that the workpiece was lifted on top of the blade and than turned counter-clockwise, while the pivot is the fence, and thrown back while continuing to turn.
The only thing that can prevent this initial pinching is the riving knife that sits very close (1/8") to the blade.
Please have a look at this video to see it in fast and slow motion
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584/table_saw_kickback_demonstration/
I did not mention the "help" of the long fence to the kickback because, it's relevant only in case of problematic wood with internal stresses...but you never know if the wood is "normal" or "problematic" until the UFO's are flying...:smile:
Regards
niki
Just thought I'd mention that I live in sweden, although the table saw I bought was imported from England and it is left tilt. So the comment that europe uses right tilt is incorrect. One thing that is different within the EU is that dado blades on table saws are illegal. which in theory means that the riving knife never needs to be removed. From a personal point of view, I would never cut a miter with a right tilt blade (just looks to scary)
Joined
·
112 Posts
sorry to disagree gurnett but on our saw its right tilt which is made by scm which is italian( ithink) so europe does use right tilt,not forgetting also that the british laws are different to other european countries. im not sure about the laws specifically to left and right tilt but heres the basic laws of a table saw.
also when you crosscut apice on a 45 degree angle with a left tilt saw that means the blades pointing towoards the hand plus if you slipped on the floor while using theres more chance of injury so that seems more scary to me , i guess its everywheres got its own ways of doing things.
also when you crosscut apice on a 45 degree angle with a left tilt saw that means the blades pointing towoards the hand plus if you slipped on the floor while using theres more chance of injury so that seems more scary to me , i guess its everywheres got its own ways of doing things.
Hi Gurnet
I apologize, I was sure that all the table saws are right tilt because those that I know are all right tilt and because of the HSE Woodworking sheet No 16 (Vinnyb76 link) and because of the training sheet at this website...
http://www.woodwise.co.uk/training/102-circular-sawing-machine/safe-setting-and-guarding.aspx
Anyway, it does not change the fact that right tilt blade is safe to use.
About the dado blade being illegal...I'm not so sure about that, as I know, as long as the blade guard is installed, it is ok to use dado blade...it was up to 15.5mm and as I understand it's going to be (or it's already) 3/4" as you can read it here
http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=170
That's the only reference that I have (HSE regulation and/or the EU safety regulations booklets are not free as the American ones).
Regards
niki
I apologize, I was sure that all the table saws are right tilt because those that I know are all right tilt and because of the HSE Woodworking sheet No 16 (Vinnyb76 link) and because of the training sheet at this website...
http://www.woodwise.co.uk/training/102-circular-sawing-machine/safe-setting-and-guarding.aspx
Anyway, it does not change the fact that right tilt blade is safe to use.
About the dado blade being illegal...I'm not so sure about that, as I know, as long as the blade guard is installed, it is ok to use dado blade...it was up to 15.5mm and as I understand it's going to be (or it's already) 3/4" as you can read it here
http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=170
That's the only reference that I have (HSE regulation and/or the EU safety regulations booklets are not free as the American ones).
Regards
niki
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!