learning woodworking at a school vs online and putting saved tuition money towards a shop?

572 Views 42 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Rebelwork, 2 d ago

cdnww

Discussion Starter · 6 d ago

If someone wanted to get in to woodworking, and already had a certain amount of financial freedom (husband has a good job and so not dependent on making money right out of the gate in order to pay mortgage or eat), what would be the merits of just building a shop starting to make stuff vs spending money/time in school?

My feeling is that when it comes to woodworking, it's probably best to just build the shop and start building stuff. It seems like one of those fields where credentials don't really matter, and that what's going to make you successful or not is your ability to build high quality pieces and then to successfully market and sell them. When it comes to wood products, quality speaks for itself imo. We live in an area with lots of well-off tourists in the summer and are relatively close (2hrs) from a major city and so there are tons of potential marketing/selling opportunities.

It's not that there probably aren't good instructors out there, but I think there are probably "good enough" online video courses on all the major subjects that are relatively affordable and once the basics are explained to you it becomes an matter of practicing. There are so many resources now that in the past didn't exist on everything from modelling, to joinery, to finishing etc...

I looked at a "local" school and it would cost 12k+2k transportation to attend a 12 week course.

With the money/time saved on tuition + transportation, we could build a pretty good shop and invest in a ton of cheap pine to practice joinery and other techniques, plus would be saving a ton of time commuting.

Thoughts? And does anyone have suggestions for high quality online courses that could cover a complete curriculum for building furniture?

Thanks!

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SonnyAgain

· #2 · 6 d ago

Pick up some discarded pieces on side of the road, repair and refinish them in your garage. See how you like woodworking in the first place. Let the pieces dictate what tools and supplies you need.

When we have problems with a piece, we come back here for help and guidance from all the gang. There are different levels of skill, here.

Reactions: 3

Domo

· #3 · 6 d ago

One of the key elements regarding your approach is how much skill you have with your hands and what tools you are truly competent with (having read and understood the entire manual for instance).

Or, does it take three weeks to assemble a three shelf IKEA bookcase?

A more formal approach should stress safety and HOW to use tools correctly - plus how to maintain them.

A night class at the local high school could be more rea$onable if you can find one, and may introduce new tools, definitions and methods quickly. Could be worth a phone call to the high school to see about night classes.

As @SonnyAgain suggested - you could start with roadside salvage and simple hand tools (goggles, bandaids, etc.). If it's fun - WELCOME ABOARD! And, we look forward to sharing your problems and your solutions when we get into jams with our own projects.

Steve Neul

· #4 · 6 d ago

cdnww said:
If someone wanted to get in to woodworking, and already had a certain amount of financial freedom (husband has a good job and so not dependent on making money right out of the gate in order to pay mortgage or eat), what would be the merits of just building a shop starting to make stuff vs spending money/time in school?

My feeling is that when it comes to woodworking, it's probably best to just build the shop and start building stuff. It seems like one of those fields where credentials don't really matter, and that what's going to make you successful or not is your ability to build high quality pieces and then to successfully market and sell them. When it comes to wood products, quality speaks for itself imo. We live in an area with lots of well-off tourists in the summer and are relatively close (2hrs) from a major city and so there are tons of potential marketing/selling opportunities.

It's not that there probably aren't good instructors out there, but I think there are probably "good enough" online video courses on all the major subjects that are relatively affordable and once the basics are explained to you it becomes an matter of practicing. There are so many resources now that in the past didn't exist on everything from modelling, to joinery, to finishing etc...

I looked at a "local" school and it would cost 12k+2k transportation to attend a 12 week course.

With the money/time saved on tuition + transportation, we could build a pretty good shop and invest in a ton of cheap pine to practice joinery and other techniques, plus would be saving a ton of time commuting.

Thoughts? And does anyone have suggestions for high quality online courses that could cover a complete curriculum for building furniture?

Thanks!

I don't think the school would be worth it. Woodworking you pretty much have to be your own engineer and figure out solutions for yourself. What you could get out of schools you could ask questions at places where you buy supplies and on forums. You just have to take the advice as someone's opinion and not carved in stone fact. With experience you can determine what is fact. When I got into woodworking it was long before the internet so I had no choice but to ask questions. What little schooling I got was in a high school wood shop and the teacher was just there to keep someone from hurting themself. He didn't teach anything. Most of the projects I made there I had to design and build without any help. If you have to come up with the answers yourself it will stick with you longer. Then after high school I worked in about a half dozen different shops. Each has their own methods but I managed to pick up on the best of those. Cheaper to have someone pay you to learn woodworking.

woodnthings

· #5 · 6 d ago (Edited)

My background is in Industrial Design, a MFA and BFA. I had a successful career in designing and modeling at a big 3 automotive Design Studio.
I did woodworking early on stating at age 6, I had a love for it and it became a necessity in designing and building my own home.
I got my first 10" table saw at age 18 with HS graduation gift money and I've never looked back.
I now have a fully equipped woodworking shop with every machine and tool I need to make cabinets and furniture as well as restore antiques. Those are the 3 major areas of the craft that you have to choose among or all 3 combined.
A sense of design proportions, a knowledge of wood and it's properties, a complete understanding of the major furniture joints and the skills to execute them, a means to draw in 2 D or model in a 3 D graphic program, and enough machines and tools to precisely execute them will be your goals in the journey to success.

Some folks really benefit from a well taught woodworking class, but there is typically an emphasis on hand tools and joinery.
The amount you quoted seems excessive to me. I would advise determining your area of interest before going down that road.

There's a very successful You Tuber, blacktail studios who found a niche market for epoxy river tables made from large slabs.
You Tube will show you all the various skills and who has the best approach to them for your needs.
Depending on where your interest lies, you can focus your efforts there, but don't be surprised it that changes a bit over time.

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cdnww

Discussion Starter · #6 · 6 d ago

Appreciate the replies so far. Yes, it's expensive. The local college/hs has carpentry classes that are focused on construction as opposed to actual woodworking so it would be a good distance to travel to get to a specialized woodworking school. The transportation includes hundreds of km of driving every day. It looks like most people agree that you kinda have to just figure things out on your own.

I've got to say we'd much prefer to put the money into upgrading our DeWalt table saw to a Sawstop PCS, a jointer/planer, buying a bunch of clamps, and putting good dust collection into the garage.

ducbsa

· #7 · 5 d ago

The local PBS station had New Yankee Workshop reruns every morning during one of my periods of unemployment and I watched every one and learned a lot. YouTube videos from good teachers would also be good, especially since you can rewind and re-watch.

Reactions: 1

Tony B

· #8 · 5 d ago

Youtube is the best and the worst place to learn anything. Way too much much misinformation not to mention the really unsafe practices. It is like going to Clown College. However if you look at the bright side, there are really good woodworkers on there and some are females. It is sorting them out that is the problem.

I would suggest you start a new thread and titled it "Woodworkers on Youtube - Best and most safety conscious" or something similar. That would narrow down the responses and keep them more focused on the names of those youtube woodworkers. One of my favorites is Izzy Swan but gets a little carried away at times. Marc Spagnuolo (probably spellihg it wrong) and many others.

Reactions: 1

JohnGi

· #9 · 5 d ago

"Woodworking" covers a lot of territory. If you want a job in the construction or cabinet building industry, you would probably need courses at a trade school just to get in the door and be hired. They would want assurance you won't injure yourself the first day on the job. You really learn the trade on the job, not in school.
What I've seen of craft woodworking schools looks to me like they are focused on hobby woodworkers. There is a very small market for "hand built" furniture., but a fair number of people who would like to build their own.
The people I've known who made a go of it with a small woodshop were all self taught. They took an interest and an idea and developed the shop and the product in tandem. The key to a profitable small wood business is finding a niche and tuning the shop to produce that particular product. You do need some basic instruction in safety. I assure you from personal experience, the cost of self-learning this can be high.
Finally, an old cabinetmakers joke: Q: What would you do if you inherited a million dollars? A: Build custom furniture until I went broke.

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DrRobert

· #10 · 5 d ago

As someone self taught I wont say you can’t do it, but the learning curve is steep and you need to have an attitude that can accept failure and move on. IOW if you’re a perfectionist you better love the craft - I know, b/c that’s me. Start with simple projects and focus on joinery and finishing.

I could write a book about how I started and the mistakes I made, but my ww’ing took off when I focused less on machines and more on hand tools - so called “hybrid woodworking”. I believe that’s the best way to start. I’m not saying saw every board by hand, but learn hand cut joinery first. That also involves learning to fit joints, but also using good tools, learning to sharpen, & learning how to layout.

I‘m not sure what the school is, but check to make sure it isn’t industrial related with a lot of machines. I have learned a lot from watching videos, all but a few are good. I would particularly recommend Fine Woodworking. They have a lot of basic ww’ing but also you can watch masters build a project step by step, the methods, the tools, the way they use the tools, the way they fix mistakes - that’s some invaluable stuff. Two of the most memorable are Phil Lowe’s lowboy and the Bennett Street toolbox.

So if you’re doing this for a hobby, my recommendation is save the money to buy tools. That said, if you are very serious, have the funds, ans are looking at a school akin to North Bennett Street, I‘d probably go for it. You’ll get 5 years experience doing things wrong in 6 months.

If you go self taught the first person I recommend is Paul Sellers. There are many others such as Wood Whisperer, Renaissance Woodworker. Most require subscriptions, but they are worth it. You could also look for some short courses within your travel distance.

Take a look at the tools on Woodcraft and Lee Valley and you’ll get an idea of quality brands and costs. Good luck and hope this helps 😁

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Tony B

· #11 · 5 d ago

Woodworking is not a difficult trade to learn. There are some basic principles, not many. Not all that long ago there were fine craftsmen who couldn't read or use a ruler or add and subtract.
I am a believer in just jumping in and doing it. The only real studying required is involving the safe usage of tools.
A table is a very easy project. If the legs and top are square, all you pretty much need to get started would be a drill press and table saw and some sanders. If all you had was a table saw, hand drill and sander, you could male simple designed shelf units.
I learned from old books that are no longer available in most libraries. I have taught woodworking and woodturning classes, usually 1 week for woodworking and 2 days for woodturning. The students actually built things and not much talking.

woodnthings

· #12 · 5 d ago

cdnww said:
Appreciate the replies so far. Yes, it's expensive. The local college/hs has carpentry classes that are focused on construction as opposed to actual woodworking so it would be a good distance to travel to get to a specialized woodworking school. The transportation includes hundreds of km of driving every day. It looks like most people agree that you kinda have to just figure things out on your own.

I've got to say we'd much prefer to put the money into upgrading our DeWalt table saw to a Sawstop PCS, a jointer/planer, buying a bunch of clamps, and putting good dust collection into the garage.

DrRobert said:
As someone self taught I wont say you can’t do it, but the learning curve is steep and you need to have an attitude that can accept failure and move on. IOW if you’re a perfectionist you better love the craft - I know, b/c that’s me.

A really and much safer table saw will make all your projects so much better in the end.

And I think you've come to a proper conclusion. Carpentry aka construction involves woodworking to a degree, but is not considered "fine woodworking".
While I did have a few woodworking classes back in high school, and I had already started my own collection of tools by then. I did get a whole lot of experience doing carpentry on my self designed house and the 4 remodeling and expansion projects over the years. That also included and entire set of kitchen cabinets made in 1/2" Melamine, a difficult material to work with. Glue won't adhere to the slick surface because it can't penetrate. And the razor sharp edges will cut your hands like barbed wire. I hated it, but it was cheap and didn't require any further surface finishes. That experience didn't mean I gave up on more "fine woodworking" projects, it was just a momentary shift.

The table saw was the primary machine in making those cabinets and my prior experience with it paid off well. It was back then I had the "brilliant" idea of joining two 12" tablesaws together to create a wide support surface and have two different blades always available. I still use that setup but with a third tablesaw added on.

A bit of creativity combined with a practical mindset has served me well both in my career and in the wood and metal working shops at home.
As Dr. Robert explained, a bit of OCD or detail mindedness/perfectionist will also help with furniture making when attention to detail and precision is critical.
You will need to be a bit self analytical and determine what your strengths are to see what aspect of woodworking suits you best.
Are you creative, shoot from the hip, or more in touch with the feel and the touch of the wood and the processes, maybe both/?
In my case, I enjoy making tools and jigs that make woodworking easier and faster and much as making the end result.

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Rebelwork

· #13 · 5 d ago (Edited)

Go to work for a local cabinet shop? Best schooling your going to get..

Without proper training you’ll ignore complicated pieces and you learning process will be so so slow.

woodnthings

· #14 · 5 d ago (Edited)

Starting out in a cabinet shop will not help you learn about making fine furniture, since most the work there involves cutting large panels.
Making some profiling on door panels maybe? making and attaching face frames. and assembling them
An alternative might be a furniture restoration shop? This lady is a very talented woodworker and finisher and is a Canadian!

I have spoken with her on the phone, she is a very nice lady.

Taking apart furniture is a big part of restoration and repair:

Rebelwork

· #15 · 5 d ago

You’re not going to get to fine furniture till you learn the basics. You need to learn procedure, multitasking, etc. Lot more to woodworking than watching Youtube. Furniture making is A-Z, not S-Z.

You can sit around and discuss it or get to it.

Reactions: 2

GoIrish

· #16 · 5 d ago

Taking a class will help you know how and what can be done and give you all the skills. After that any problem is likely your tools, wood movement, finish etc.
If you do go it alone find an experience woodworker to help. Maybe there is a maker space or club nearby. There are so many small details that can get in the way. I spent too long thinking I lacked skill only to discover the trunnion on my saw moved slowly when running so my mitre slot and fence did not stay parallel to the blade. Made a negligible difference for some projects. Made a huge difference with mitered cabinet sides. I learned of the problem from an experienced friend when I was about to give up. Cheap solution to the problem was available and worked great. Problems like that are fine for a weekend warrior…not fine if you want to have a business.
Learning what splitting a line means takes 1 minute in person. Might watch a couple of videos before you are comfortable that you saw enough opinions that you internalize what it means and why it is important.

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Rebelwork

· #17 · 5 d ago

GoIrish said:
Taking a class will help you know how and what can be done and give you all the skills. After that any problem is likely your tools, wood movement, finish etc.
If you do go it alone find an experience woodworker to help. Maybe there is a maker space or club nearby. There are so many small details that can get in the way. I spent too long thinking I lacked skill only to discover the trunnion on my saw moved slowly when running so my mitre slot and fence did not stay parallel to the blade. Made a negligible difference for some projects. Made a huge difference with mitered cabinet sides. I learned of the problem from an experienced friend when I was about to give up. Cheap solution to the problem was available and worked great. Problems like that are fine for a weekend warrior…not fine if you want to have a business.
Learning what splitting a line means takes 1 minute in person. Might watch a couple of videos before you are comfortable that you saw enough opinions that you internalize what it means and why it is important.

I took wood shop 3 years. They’re meant to be fun, not really to make money. There really is no substitute for on the job training.

Reactions: 2

Domo

· #18 · 5 d ago

Rebelwork said:
I took wood shop 3 years. They’re meant to be fun, not really to make money. There really is no substitute for on the job training.

Well said Rebel.

BigCountry79

· #19 · 5 d ago

Safety videos don't sell and don't get YouTube views. In person instruction values safety because instructors deal with unsafe students in every class.

I think you get more lessons in safety from professional in person instruction.

woodnthings

· #20 · 5 d ago

Here is one of the best anti-kickback videos I've seen and I've watched many:

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