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Egg Spurt
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Discussion Starter #1
I kind of wanted the SS, but there's this little issue of money. As much as I'd really love to have more of it I don't so I've settled on one of the two. I also need to set up dust collection finally and it ain't cheap either.. I like the grizzly, but I'd have to rewire the shop for the 240V..Not that big of a deal in itself, but having the 20 amp circuit I already have is a huge plus and the PM1000 will run on the 20 amp circuit just fine. The 220 (or 240) wouldn't be that difficult since there's already a blank 240 line previously hooked up to an old pump that no longer works. I'd only have to pull the timer and install an outlet and/or a long extension or move the outlet closer to the saw. I'm well aware of the issues with chopping fingers off, but it's a risk I'll just have to take and keep my hands away from spinning blades AS IF I need to relearn that lesson again anyway..
So anyway it's down to the PM1000 1791001K 52" rip or the Grizzly G1023RLX also 52".. I'm strongly leaning toward the PM just because it's in stock now and I wouldn't have to pay the freight whereas the Grizzly is another $200+ After everything it comes down to a difference of less than $100 more for the PM..otherwise I'd be waiting another month or two for the grizzly..
 

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where's my table saw?
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In the case of a "draw" I would go for the best customer service. Assuming the PM is from a local store? Grizzly quality has come a long way in the past 10 ro 15 years, BUT the PM was always better in the past. I can't speak for todays products, however as my 12 Pm is about 25 years old and it's a beast. Great smooth operating controls and nicely ground table surfaces. I have owned a few newer Grizzly's, a 20" planer, a 19" bandsaw, two 3HP shapers, and an 8" jointer and I was pleased with all of them. My dreams of a dedicated milling room did not materialize, so off to Craig's List they went.
Grizzly's reputation for excellent customer service is legendary, so maybe a tough call. Flip a coin?
 

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Bah humbug
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I'd like to have an Altendorf, but I'll have to live with the unisaw. That technology came late in the game for mist of us.

You'll do okay. You have to buy what you can afford...
 

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where's my table saw?
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I'd like to have an Altendorf, but I'll have to live with the unisaw. That technology came late in the game for mist of us.

You'll do okay. You have to buy what you can afford...
That never stopped me. I bought a lot of stuff I shouldn't have, but it's always turned out OK. Power tooIs and macghines last almost forever so the cost can be "amortized" over many years. In his case they are within $100.00 the cost is the same, that's why I mentioned customer service and parts availability.
 

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Bah humbug
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I couldn't. Being on cabinet makers pay I was on $1600? On a unisaw in a heartbeat.

If i had to do it again, Id do the same thing. .

I was only fulltime for 2 years. Didn't make enough to start up grading or hiring on employees, but was close.

I wouldn't waste money if I didn't have too..

All my tools were tax deductions..

Most fulltime shops were sold off after the financial meltdown, I still have my tools...

My next purchase was going to be a Grizzly oscillating sander, but never happened..

Had the skill, just not the money...
 

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...I like the grizzly, but I'd have to rewire the shop for the 240V..Not that big of a deal in itself, but having the 20 amp circuit I already have is a huge plus and the PM1000 will run on the 20 amp circuit just fine...
I don't think you're going to be able to run the PM1000 on that 20 amp circuit successfully, especially when the saw is under a heavy load. Here are some of the specs on that saw:

Motor Power: 1-3/4HP
Motor Current (Amps) : 20/10
Motor Phase : 1
Motor Voltage (V.) : 115/230
Prewired Voltage (V.) : 115
Recommended Circuit Size (Amps.) : 30A (for 115V), 20A (for 230V)

The stated amp draw for 115v is 20 amps. Their recommended circuit size is 30 amps for 115v. I think if you try to run that saw on a 20 amp 115v circuit it will trip quite often. I had a 115v 2HP dust collector that was rated at 18 amps. That thing would constantly draw 22 amps or more at startup and would often trip old 20 amp breakers. I could get by with a brand new 20 amp breaker for a while but in the end I ended up running 10g wire and put a 25 amp breaker on it.

If that powermatic is stating that it draws 20 amps you really should follow their recommendation and install a 30 amp circuit.

I own a Grizzly G1023 cabinet saw and I have been very happy with it. Grizzly's support has been great on all my tools. Even when I was refurbishing a 15+ year old planer Grizzly support spent a lot of time on the phone with me helping with various issues. If it were me, with less than $100 difference in the two, I'd go with the Grizzly. That being said since the unit is out of stock currently it's hard to say whether you get that saw in a month or 2 or 3 months.

If you want to use that existing 20 amp circuit I'd look for a saw that doesn't pull quite the amperage as the PM1000. Grizzly's G0899 is a 2HP saw that only draws 16 amps so I think you'd be safe there. I'm sure Powermatic has a similarly sized units. The rip capacity on that saw isn't 52" but I have some longer grizzly rails I'm not using that you can have if you want to take a short trip to Milwaukee! :)

Good luck with your decision! I don't think you'll go wrong with either choice.
 

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Bah humbug
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I run a 3hp Unisaw on a 20 amp...
 

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Egg Spurt
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I don't think you're going to be able to run the PM1000 on that 20 amp circuit successfully, especially when the saw is under a heavy load. Here are some of the specs on that saw:

Motor Power: 1-3/4HP
Motor Current (Amps) : 20/10
Motor Phase : 1
Motor Voltage (V.) : 115/230
Prewired Voltage (V.) : 115
Recommended Circuit Size (Amps.) : 30A (for 115V), 20A (for 230V)

The stated amp draw for 115v is 20 amps. Their recommended circuit size is 30 amps for 115v. I think if you try to run that saw on a 20 amp 115v circuit it will trip quite often. I had a 115v 2HP dust collector that was rated at 18 amps. That thing would constantly draw 22 amps or more at startup and would often trip old 20 amp breakers. I could get by with a brand new 20 amp breaker for a while but in the end I ended up running 10g wire and put a 25 amp breaker on it.

If that powermatic is stating that it draws 20 amps you really should follow their recommendation and install a 30 amp circuit.

I own a Grizzly G1023 cabinet saw and I have been very happy with it. Grizzly's support has been great on all my tools. Even when I was refurbishing a 15+ year old planer Grizzly support spent a lot of time on the phone with me helping with various issues. If it were me, with less than $100 difference in the two, I'd go with the Grizzly. That being said since the unit is out of stock currently it's hard to say whether you get that saw in a month or 2 or 3 months.

If you want to use that existing 20 amp circuit I'd look for a saw that doesn't pull quite the amperage as the PM1000. Grizzly's G0899 is a 2HP saw that only draws 16 amps so I think you'd be safe there. I'm sure Powermatic has a similarly sized units. The rip capacity on that saw isn't 52" but I have some longer grizzly rails I'm not using that you can have if you want to take a short trip to Milwaukee! :)

Good luck with your decision! I don't think you'll go wrong with either choice.
I have an old 30 amp circuit (115) I used for an RV we no longer have. I just need to stretch the line over to the other side of the shop. about 35' of wire should do the trick no problem.. I'm so happy the old woman isn't deciding for me. It would require to have at LEAST one blue light on it somewhere. She has been said to probably purchase a turd if it had a blue light on it..It's one of those fanatical things with her.. Go figure, eh? Actually the 30 makes sense since I do occasionally trip circuits doing two things at once like me using the saw when the air compressor kicks on..Stuff of that nature...
 
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Egg Spurt
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Discussion Starter #9
I need to get rid of the old crapman saw.. I listened to the old woman and listed it at $300 originally then dropped to 150.. I'm thinking I'll basically give it away before it's all said and done. Anyone in SC want it? Make me just about any offer, but I ain't shipping it to Africa for an African cashiers check..but will ship to Africa for about $50000 in real American cash! Upfront..
 

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Egg Spurt
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Discussion Starter #10
OK..another backup here.. You guys talked me into it..rather the old woman did.. I'm going with the Sawstop saw..I'd like a heavy duty model, but I'm going with the 1 3/4 hp model mainly because it's less expensive, but also I'm not going to be cutting a lot of heavy duty thick hardwoods any time soon and I ain't getting any younger so heavy wood is no longer up my alley anyway..I bought a dust collection system (used) and it was quite heavy enough getting it off the truck so I'm no longer a big fan of heavy lifting..Also sold off the old craftsman so for the time being I am table sawless..I feel naked!
 

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Cool, I'd like to get a Sawstop Contractor this summer, which options are you going for? I think I'll get the middle fence and the vacuum guard. Where will you buy it?

Or do you mean you are getting the 1 3/4hp cabinet model?
 

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Here is a very useful link to help you choose between SawStop contractor and cabinet models, along with the various options for fences, mobile bases, and other accessories:
https://www.trentdavis.net/wp/2019/01/18/choosing-a-sawstop-contractor-vs-profes

I have the cabinet saw because of its smaller footprint compared with the contractor saw. For me, it was all about storage footprint when not in use. I bought a PCS-175 because I have only 110v power now. I plan to pull 220 someday (soon?), and will try the simple 220v conversion first. Another consideration is that you can upgrade it to a 3 horsepower motor (220v only) at a later time.

These were the must have options for me at purchase time:
  • T-Glide fence (36 inch) - This is a Biesemeyer equivalent, and far superior to the lesser fence options. Very much worth the extra cost - no regrets.
  • Industrial mobile base for cabinet saw - This has a pedal-operated hydraulic lift with four swivels. No other mobile base compares for ease of use, manueverability, and load capacity. Super smooth operation and rolling. This is amazing.
  • Dado brake - You must use a different brake with a dado stack (8 inch only). I also bought a SawStop zero clearance insert for dados, but now I use the one from Infinity Tools with inexpensive replaceable inserts. I posted a detailed review of it recently: (https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/thr...ceable-inserts-for-sawstop-table-saws.225337/)
I also bought the folding outfeed table option. I like it okay. It works well in use. It took four hours to assemble with all the square pipes and screws. It does not fold flat against the back of the saw, which affects storage. Because it hangs at an angle, the bottom of it tends to bump into things when I wheel out the saw. Someday I will modify it slightly with a hacksaw and a drill that so it folds flat against the back.

I also bought a spare standard brake. The saw comes with a standard brake, but I ordered a spare, so I could keep working in case I accidentally trigger the saw. I am very careful, and so far, it has never happened. I have seen it happen with others. The one that comes to mind is when a friend triggered one when the blade contacted a misconfigured metal Incra miter fence. No real harm done, and the saw was up and running again in a couple minutes. If you ever trigger the brake, you will need a replacement blade, too.

I have used the dust collecting blade guard on other SawStop saws. I do not have the dust collecting blade guard for my own saw. I see very little sawdust on the table surface when I do normal through cuts. I see a lot of sawdust on the surface when I do those "edge trims" where the cut is less than the blade kerf. I work outside and just brush or vacuum the sawdust off the table. Yes, I wear a dust mask. A dust collecting blade guard might be nice to have if I were working inside and using the saw with a real dust collector instead of a shop vac, but it was not nearly as essential for me as the fence, mobile base, and dado brake mentioned above.

SawStop pricing is fixed - the same everywhere. Buy local, from someone who will give you good support. When SawStop authorizes one of its "sales" which happen to all sellers at the same time, then they offer a choice of an accessory add-on. In the past the add-on choice has been either the cheap dust collecting blade guard or the cheap mobile base. You can pay the difference to upgrade to the better versions of those products. Honestly, it isn't much incentive, but better than nothing.
 

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Thanks @Tool Agnostic for your experience and info, that Trent Davis link is great. The biggest difference in our TS needs/set up is that you roll yours outside to use it. Even if I had a flat paved instead of gravel drive I shudder at the thought of being out in the weather with the saw each time I needed it. Once I have the saw in place with an out feed table about 4 x 6 feet big I'll only move the saw if I need to access the rear of it for maintenance etc.

The cabinet SawStops are more $ than I can justify, even with a Contractor after including options, 220, a blade and dado, etc I'll be up around $3k. :eek: I will probably replace the original Contractor stand with a DIY base, sort of a doorless cabinet with nearly the horizontal dimensions of the saw top with the 36" fence. The right side will be a place to store a sled etc. On caster swivels with leveler feet that unload the wheels, a setup I've used before, not convenient enough for everyday use but fine for once in awhile.

About where to buy, yes I noticed SS keeps their dealers at the same price, I was wondering more about what other considerations there might be. I live out in the sticks, for multiple reasons I'd rather pick the saw up instead of having it delivered. About 90 minutes one way from me on the north side of Indianapolis there's both a Rockler and a Woodcraft, even if I have to make 2 trips with my Subaru Crosstrek I'd rather do that.
 

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Hi @Bob Bengal - I read your post above and it sounds like you understand the differences between our situations and are making all the right choices. Trent Davis' website has other useful links and information related to SawStop. It is worth your time to peruse later.

There is a SawStop users group, but they are on Facebook. I am not on Facebook, and never have been. I have no idea what information is there or what they do. It might interest you or others ... or not.

Hopefully you have seen this recent thread:
Woodworking Talk
Just something to pay attention to.
 

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Cool, I haven't looked at the other Davis pages yet. I don't get nostalgic for high school (or junior high lol), am allergic to Facebook, kind of p.o. me when info is only there. I understand people using it for groups etc since so many do have FB already, but Grr. Would be nice if Sawstop had a forum like this one.

Yes I saw that thread about the bad brake cartridges, sounded like SS was getting bad components from their suppliers, anyone heard if that is fixed now?
 

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Egg Spurt
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Discussion Starter #16
Finally! Some good news on the finding a saw available.. I've been online looking to buy a new saw for awhile now AND one I can get delivered because I just don't have the oomph to pick up a cabinet saw on my own or even with help anymore. If you've never noticed old age will do things to your physical strength you couldn't imagine as a young man.. In the past few weeks I've been looking at a 3-4 month waiting period for saws to arrive from the Taiwan factories plus a few hundred for delivery fees. The local SS dealer has them IN STOCK now and will deliver for quite a bit less than anyone else. The only thing holding me back right now is my money manager is out of town till Friday at the latest so it looks like by sometime next week I'll be getting a brand spanking new SS delivered.. I guess I'll need to make a paddle for my spanking..
 
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