[PBerube]

Good Morning,

Newbie here to both this group and to woodworking.

Does anyone have any tips on keeping the fence square on a cross cut sled while putting in the remaining screws once you've confirmed it square using the 5 cut method?

I built my first cross cut sled and squared the fence using the 5 cut method. I'll get it to .001 or even a few times at .000 and as soon as I install a few more screws to secure the fence to the bottom, I lose my accuracy. I do predrill the holes.

Needless to say, I'm extremely frustrated...though my husband's ecstatic that he hasn't had to split kindling for the woodstove lately. lol

I've watched countless videos on woodworkers building a cross cut sled and using the 5 cut method and at the end, when they've finished squaring, they just flip the sled over and finish screwing it down. I'm curious if they do a retest after to confirm it's still accurate like I do...and if so...what's their secret?

Thanks

Pam

 

[Miket]

Can you clamp the fence down tight once you have it perfect and before drilling and screwing to hold it from moving?

 

[PBerube]

Can you clamp the fence down tight once you have it perfect and before drilling and screwing to hold it from moving?

Yes, I'm clamping it down. I started with just a couple of Rockler quick clamps and then moved on to a couple of Bessey clamps and there's no moving it once I have two of those on the sled.

I also keep the block of wood, I use in conjunction with the feeler gauge, clamped to the sled while I'm securing the fence with more screws to see if the fence if forced out of position while screwing it down...and it always looks tight up against the block of wood.

Possibly it's the clamping that's skewing things. I chamfered the front bottom of the fence to help prevent/mitigate sawdust buildup and I wonder if it's an issue with the space of the chamfered edge and clamping. I feel that the screws are going in straight in.

 

[Tony B]

if you have an air nailer, use it. Then drill holes and use screws.

 

[PBerube]

The air nailer is a great suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't have one yet, but it is on my list of items needed...possibly I should move that item up higher on the list.

 

[Tony B]

I really think you should. When I say nailer, I am referring to 18 Ga. Brad Nailer
Stay away from the less expensive brands like Harbor Freight and Wen, they underperform. I know because I own both of them and had to replace both of them.
I use my brad nailers A LOT, especially when making 'throe away' jigs and also for temporary clamping.

 

[Rebelwork]

If it helps..

Multi sled

Figure it out as I go..

www.woodworkingtalk.com

 

[GoIrish]

If you get to 0.001” and have two screws in the fence the screws must be moving your fence. I did not clamp when added additional screws. I had a plywood fence and was worried a out splitting the plys so I drilled counter sunk holes for the screws.

+1 for the brad nailer. I use mine to tack lots of joints in place for glue joint or glue and screw joints. Even used it to put up some crown but I don’t recommend it.

 

[woodnthings]

Remove the fence and scrape off all the splinters around the screw holes on the bottom.
Your fence is not seating flat on the sled. Loosen all but one screw on the end and then square it.
Your other end screw hole needs to be slightly larger to allow for adjustment.
Once you have it 90 degrees to the blade, snug it down with a flat washer under the screw head.
You should pre drill all the through holes and only 1/8" in the sled to avoid expanding the wood.

Use a digital angle gauge to square the fence starting out:

Table Saw Sled Build

So many threads on sleds. So I had to make one. I used 1/2" hardboard, like Masonite, for the sled. Maple runners. Oak for the front rail. I haven't decided to cut though the rear portion yet. I don't see the need so far. The semi-circular 5/16" slots for the "T" bolts were routed on the...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

 

[Rebelwork]

I used my fence to square it up…

 

[woodnthings]

The thread title is:
Issue Keeping Cross Cut Fence Square After 5 Cut Method
The post above explains how to keep the fence in place once you squared it to the blade and what may be causing it to shift as it's screwed down to the base of the sled. The first pass makes a kerf in the base and that is the reference to which the fence must be squared to.
By placing the square next to the blade OR exactly on the kerf, the fence can be adjusted:

The sled's fence must be square to the blade, nothing else. The table saw fence just adds another variable.
You'll need a "known" square that's square. You'll need a straight flat board for the fence and then follow this video:

 

[Rebelwork]

A-B-C , etc need to be correct..

I would just start chasing YouTube videos and find one that fits your needs..

 

[woodnthings]

See post 11 just above, after I added the video, and edited it.

 

[DrRobert]

Pam,

First of all, .001 is irrelevant unless we know what the .001 is referring to. You may need to do nothing. If you’re trying to move a 30” long fence .001” you are already way past the accuracy you need. The 5 cut method is neat, but send some people down a rabbit hole.

Have you checked to make sure your fence is absolutely straight and all four sides are square? Lots of problems start there.

Are you using a precision square? If you can‘t see light under the blade over 12”, it is square, period.

When I hear people talking about thousandths of an inch in woodworking, relative to accuracy there is a point past which you gain nothing and just drive yourself batty. We need to realize wood has a mind of its own and a memory. A board won’t even maintain a dimension that much from morning to afternoon.

 

[allpurpose]

A-B-C , etc need to be correct..

I would just start chasing YouTube videos and find one that fits your needs..

You've obviously correctly identified the curse of YouTube. It's quite habit forming. Eventually there's bound to be YouTube self help groups and videos.
"Hi, I'm [insert name ] and I'm a YouTubeaholic!" Forty voices at once, "Hi [insert name].."
Maybe a YouTube self help community will be my claim to fame.. Have you made amends to all those you've harmed by watching YouTube? Have you taken a courageous soul searching inventory of your YouTube faults?

 

[PBerube]

Pam,

First of all, .001 is irrelevant unless we know what the .001 is referring to. You may need to do nothing. If you’re trying to move a 30” long fence .001” you are already way past the accuracy you need. The 5 cut method is neat, but send some people down a rabbit hole.

Have you checked to make sure your fence is absolutely straight and all four sides are square? Lots of problems start there.

Are you using a precision square? If you can‘t see light under the blade over 12”, it is square, period.

When I hear people talking about thousandths of an inch in woodworking, relative to accuracy there is a point past which you gain nothing and just drive yourself batty. We need to realize wood has a mind of its own and a memory. A board won’t even maintain a dimension that much from morning to afternoon.

So, the distance from my pivot point is 28". I use a precision square (and I confirmed it's square) to start squaring the fence. Once I have the fence in line with the blade, I clamp the fence to the base and use a single screw to anchor that side of the fence down...then I proceed with the 5 cut method. Once I get it to, at least 0.001, I clamp again and install more screws. I'm sure it's those additional screws that's...well, 'screwing' with my accuracy.

As suggested by 'woodnthings,' I'll try removing the fence, cleaning up the splinters from the holes and begin again. And, I'm also buying a brad nailer now rather than waiting any longer. I was looking at the 18 gauge Metabo HPT NT50A5 - the 'pro' series as that has an aluminum magazine whereas the NT50AE2 has a 'composite' magazine.

So, the question of if the fence, itself, is square and straight...it was when I first built it. If it was out of square, would I have been able to get it as close as I have been able to (before anchoring with more screws)? I don't know if being able to get so close to, and a few times right on, square, is an indication of my fence being square or there's no actual relationship.

And, yep, I am down a rabbit hole...a place I'm extremely familiar with!

I appreciate everyone's input.

Thx

Pam

 

[PBerube]

Remove the fence and scrape off all the splinters around the screw holes on the bottom.
Your fence is not seating flat on the sled. Loosen all but one screw on the end and then square it.
Your other end screw hole needs to be slightly larger to allow for adjustment.
Once you have it 90 degrees to the blade, snug it down with a flat washer under the screw head.
You should pre drill all the through holes and only 1/8" in the sled to avoid expanding the wood.

Use a digital angle gauge to square the fence starting out:
View attachment 449704

Table Saw Sled Build

So many threads on sleds. So I had to make one. I used 1/2" hardboard, like Masonite, for the sled. Maple runners. Oak for the front rail. I haven't decided to cut though the rear portion yet. I don't see the need so far. The semi-circular 5/16" slots for the "T" bolts were routed on the...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

Is that an iGaging digital square?

Remove the fence and scrape off all the splinters around the screw holes on the bottom.
Your fence is not seating flat on the sled. Loosen all but one screw on the end and then square it.
Your other end screw hole needs to be slightly larger to allow for adjustment.
Once you have it 90 degrees to the blade, snug it down with a flat washer under the screw head.
You should pre drill all the through holes and only 1/8" in the sled to avoid expanding the wood.

Use a digital angle gauge to square the fence starting out:
View attachment 449704

Table Saw Sled Build

So many threads on sleds. So I had to make one. I used 1/2" hardboard, like Masonite, for the sled. Maple runners. Oak for the front rail. I haven't decided to cut though the rear portion yet. I don't see the need so far. The semi-circular 5/16" slots for the "T" bolts were routed on the...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

I like the use of the digital square. That looks like an iGaging protractor. I'm on their website checking them out.

 

[woodnthings]

Is that an iGaging digital square?
I like the use of the digital square. That looks like an iGaging protractor. I'm on their website checking them out.

It's an older Wixey probably made by IGaging?
I tried to find out why it wouldn't stay on and called TS but they said to bend the battery connectors up a little which worked.
I discovered the battery issue by pressing down hard on the battery cover and it then fired up.
Because I didn't want to be without one, I ordered an 7" I Gaging from Amazon:

Amazon.com

 

[DrRobert]

So, the distance from my pivot point is 28". I use a precision square (and I confirmed it's square) to start squaring the fence. Once I have the fence in line with the blade, I clamp the fence to the base and use a single screw to anchor that side of the fence down...then I proceed with the 5 cut method. Once I get it to, at least 0.001, I clamp again and install more screws. I'm sure it's those additional screws that's...well, 'screwing' with my accuracy.

As suggested by 'woodnthings,' I'll try removing the fence, cleaning up the splinters from the holes and begin again. And, I'm also buying a brad nailer now rather than waiting any longer. I was looking at the 18 gauge Metabo HPT NT50A5 - the 'pro' series as that has an aluminum magazine whereas the NT50AE2 has a 'composite' magazine.

So, the question of if the fence, itself, is square and straight...it was when I first built it. If it was out of square, would I have been able to get it as close as I have been able to (before anchoring with more screws)? I don't know if being able to get so close to, and a few times right on, square, is an indication of my fence being square or there's no actual relationship.

And, yep, I am down a rabbit hole...a place I'm extremely familiar with!

I appreciate everyone's input.

Thx

Pam

You're more than close enough. 3 cut method is all you need. The real test is how far off are you over 12"? Can't see light = good!!

I would never ever say disregard what WNT says

 

[Half Fast Eddie]

The real test is how far off are you over 12"?

Agree. Unless i missed it, i have not seen how far off it is after the last screws are tightened.