[Tony B]

The reason the more expensive table saws offer more is because the table saw is usually the hub of your shop. If you get a small table saw with sheet metal top, it will probably not be able to handle large pieces of plywood. You can get around not having a good table saw by using other tools. You cant get around a cheap table saw though. Other than the dangers of a cheap saw, it is also often not repeatable. For example, the fence may move when bumped. The lesser motor will probably stall and in the end, you will probably quit using it. For me and lots of others out there, everything starts with the table saw.
My table saw is 5' in from my roll up door. I can slide a sheet of plywood onto the table saw from my van. My outfeed table is on wheels and if the ply is cut, it ends up on the outfeed table. If the ply is not to be cut, it still slides on top of the table saw and onto the out feed table. The outfeed table has 4 swivel wheels and can go anywhere.
Actually, if you are putting together your shop, just everything should be on swivel wheels.

 

[woodnthings]

Yes, but the track saw's depth-of-cut is pretty good but limited. I need the 3" depth of a 10" blade.

If you are running much hardwood stock that needs a 3" depth of cut, you'll probably want a 3 HP motor. Used cabinet saws may be the solution. Don't use the side extensions and the size will be just about right. The used saws may fit into the budget of $1500 but may be hard to find. Deltas, Generals, Grizzly will be some choice, BUT they may also be older "right tilt" models. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, but for some it may be?

There are larger tracks saw than 7". However, repeated ripping operations with a track saw would NOT be my choice, especially in hardwood.
Not a track saw, but a 1) circ saw:

Big Foot Tools SC-1025SU BF-UG 10-1/4-Inch Wormdrive Magnesium Circular Saw w/ Skil Motor - Big Foot Saw - Amazon.com

Big Foot Tools SC-1025SU BF-UG 10-1/4-Inch Wormdrive Magnesium Circular Saw w/ Skil Motor - Big Foot Saw - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

The sizes quoted for table size often included the side extension, so without them the basic table will be smaller.
For repeated ripping an outfeed extension is a must. I don't like roller stands they are not stable enough. I welded up my own heavy duty one with a 3" X 24" roller.

 

[Biotec]

@mrblint

if I understood what your request was you want a small utilization of space.

so you're down to a contractor or job site saws using a 2 Hp motor at 120 volts.

the above saws will be within your $800 price range or about $900 for a saw stop.

most of the market for new saws using 2 hp are at 120 volt. lower cost.
most saws sold today at 3 horsepower are 220 volt but now are cabinets saws.
there are some at 3 horsepower with a 10 inch blade also there are some at 5 horsepower with a 12 inch blade

most cabinet size require large floor space. now you're starting at approximately $1,600 or more for a 3 hp horsepower unit. And requires 220 volt service.

please note on some of the smaller 2 horsepower jobsite saws can be wire 220 they do not develop anymore horsepower at the higher voltage just lower amperage.

horsepower or also in KW will always remain the same regardless of voltage being used.

you also requested that you need to be able cut 3-inch boards. did not state whether you want to be able to cut them at angle.



A 10" blade has a maximum depth of cut of 3-1/4" at 90 degrees and a 2 1/4" possible depth of cut at a 45 degrees angle. This is an average table saw using a 10-inch 24 tooth blade.

I believe you'll be better off to have someone properly wire two 120 volt circuits give up the 220 circuit.

saw dust collection is a totally separate subject and cannot be avoided with any table saw.

initial part of the cut will always throw sawdust at you Till The Cutting part of the blade is at now at the top Center coming down and carries the dust downward.

I believe that your requirement of a small saw will create challenges for the right one to meet your needs. also what amount time are you going to be cutting 3in thick stock versus thinner materials.

 

[woodnthings]

If you are running much hardwood stock that needs a 3" depth of cut, you'll probably want a 3 HP motor. Used cabinet saws may be the solution. Don't use the side extensions and the size will be just about right.

The sizes quoted for table size often included the side extension, so without them the basic table will be smaller.
For repeated ripping an outfeed extension is a must. I don't like roller stands they are not stable enough. I welded up my own heavy duty one with a 3" X 24" roller.

This 3 HP cabinet saw table size (40" X 27") includes the side extension, which in the case of a used saw or new can always be removed to get the size smaller.

10" 3 HP 240V Cabinet Table Saw at Grizzly.com

<h1>G1023RL 10" 3 HP 240V Cabinet Table Saw</h1> <h2>This is your everyday production workhorse.</h2> <p>The G1023RL 10" 240V Cabinet Table Saw has been improved, refined, and optimized into this finished product. <p>The powerful 3 HP motor rotates the arbor at 4200 RPM. This equates to the 10"...

www.grizzly.com

• Motor: 3 HP
• Tablesaw type: Cabinet
• Blade size: 10 in.
• Maximum cutting height @ 90deg: 3 in.
• Maximum cutting height @ 45deg: 2-1/8 in.
• Maximum ripping capacity - right: 32 in.
• Table type: Precision-Ground Cast Iron
• Overall table size: 40 in. x 27 in.
• Shipping weight: 508 lbs.

That will give you a 3 HP motor and a good basis for your shop requirements stated above. If you ever want a larger table bolt the extension back on.

 

[Biotec]

the table top size seems ok But
price on sale good $2,240 above @mrblint price of $800. much better saw than an $800 saw

all from their site manual
the front fence rail is 72" and rear is 84"

Circuit Requirements for G1023RLWX/RLX5

This machine is prewired to operate on a power supply
circuit that has a verified ground and meets the following requirements:

Nominal Voltage .........208V, 220V, 230V, 240V

Cycle..........................................................60 Hz

Phase............................................Single

Phase Circuit Rating...................................... 30 Amps

Plug/Receptacle ...........................NEMA L6-30

 

[woodnthings]

If you are running much hardwood stock that needs a 3" depth of cut, you'll probably want a 3 HP motor. Used cabinet saws may be the solution. Don't use the side extensions and the size will be just about right. The used saws may fit into the budget of $1500 but may be hard to find. Deltas, Generals, Grizzly will be some choice, BUT they may also be older "right tilt" models. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, but for some it may be?

The sizes quoted for table size often included the side extension, so without them the basic table will be smaller.
For repeated ripping an outfeed extension is a must. I don't like roller stands they are not stable enough. I welded up my own heavy duty one with a 3" X 24" roller.

I've only used a Dewalt benchtop and 8" Delta Homecraft table saw. Shopping now for a saw with a larger blade to be able to rip-cut thicker boards precisely and safely, one that doesn't throw the sawdust in my face. Since I don't need to rip plywood sheets and don't have a lot of space in my one-car garage, I am looking for a compact saw with good dust containment, one that is not imprecise and is not underpowered. I am willing to spend up to $800. A couple of the 10" jobsite saws I'm considering (Oliver, Grizzly) have 2HP DC motors with a knob that lets you set blade speed. (These saws can also do double-duty as disc sanders.) Is the ability to control blade speed in real time a feature that would contribute in a significant way to making safe, clean, and precise rip cuts in hardwood boards, all other factors being equal (HP, proper blade choice, non-deflecting fence, etc.)?

I would seriously consider Sawstop if they offered a saw as small as their new Compact model that's supposed to ship this fall, but with a T-slide fence on short rails, a 2HP 220V motor option, and priced around $1,500. Maybe Sawstop will offer a "Compact Pro" model

The Saw Stop is more expensive, but apparently worth it to the OP.
Why quote the price of a new saw $2300, when I am suggestion getting used saw?
That $2300 is 3 X the budget of the OP. The suggestion was to find a used cabinet saw, but remove the side extensions to fit the space requirements the OP stated in the first post. The advantage being having a 3 HP motor will run better than a 2 HP at full blade height.
I don't know how to make this any more clear.

 

[mrblint]

If you intend to do a lot of work in your shop, a Dado Blade Set-up is almost essential. Almost everything I make requires dados.

I'm using "essential" in a different way. Sorry for the confusion. What I mean by "essential" has to do with the tool's "essence" : this tool and only this tool is able to perform a particular operation. I would agree that dados are "essential" for what you want to accomplish, but dado blades and a table saw are not essential for that task. The dados could be achieved with a good handheld router and a jig.

My objection is to saw manufacturers offering only large wide tables with long rails if the customer wants a premium fence. That is forcing the customer to pay for non-essential features in the sense I am using the word. The price actually doubles, maybe even triples! It's much worse than having to buy leather seats or a fancy stereo in order to get fog-lights on a car.

 

[mrblint]

It's kind of like asking for a Smart Car that can pull a semi trailer. If you want a saw specialized for long rips you want a long fence, the way you want a long bed jointer for long boards. Compact and jobsite saws are designed to be frequently hauled around in pickups, the fences lock in place at both ends, are compact and light weight. A T-Glide is none of that, just the fence without the rail weighs about what a compact saw does. The rail feels like something you could use in a bridge structure.

You are going to need to compromise on something, whether on what the saw can do, or the space it takes up in storage, etc.

10" 2 HP Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw at Grizzly.com

<h1>W1837 10" 2 HP Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw</h1> <h2>The best features of the cabinet and contractor saws combined into a hybrid.</h2> <p>The Shop Fox W1837 10" Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw was named as one of the Best Hybrid Table Saws for Contractors or DIY Projects by <em>Tool Digest</em>...

www.grizzly.com

A classic contractor TS has the motor sticking out the rear, limits how close to a wall you can store the saw. Hybrid saws have the motor underneath and in the bulge on the left side for a smaller stored footprint.

Is a long fence really required for ripping long boards? Wouldn't good infeed and outfeed support suffice if the fence was 24" long, say, and rock-steady? There aren't any lateral forces on the board with good infeed and outfeed support. Compact was not always a synonym for portable like it is today. The compact tilting arbor saws made in the 1940s and 1950s, with their cast-iron tables and heavy motors, were really too heavy to be tossed in the back of a truck, even if some manufacturers tried to position them as "portable". But they were really just "non-stationary". I'd like a modern 10" version of one of those saws with premium (but short) rails and premium (but short) fence and HP/voltage options in the motor. What I'm willing to sacrifice is sheet goods.

 

[woodnthings]

I'm using "essential" in a different way. Sorry for the confusion. What I mean by "essential" has to do with the tool's "essence" : this tool and only this tool is able to perform a particular operation. I would agree that dados are "essential" for what you want to accomplish, but dado blades and a table saw are not essential for that task. The dados could be achieved with a good handheld router and a jig.

(A) My objection is to saw manufacturers offering only large wide tables with long rails if the customer wants a premium fence.
(B) That is forcing the customer to pay for non-essential features in the sense I am using the word. The price actually doubles, maybe even triples! It's much worse than having to buy leather seats or a fancy stereo in order to get fog-lights on a car.

I don't understand your analogy or your reasoning.
Statement (A) Your needs and application is unique in the woodworking shop. You only want to rip boards into narrow pieces, a specialized application.
There are "purpose built" rip saws that feed the work in a straight line and come out so fast it's hard to keep ahead of the rate to stack them. I've used one, I know.
Statement (B) Your needs are different than most woodworkers who will need the additional width capacity for breaking done sheet good for making cabinets as well as ripping narrow boards. You are the exception, not the rule as far as marketing the features most often needed on a table saw. Your application requirements are "essential" to you, but very few others. Buy the saw with the extra capacity and remove the stuff you don't need. save and replace when you need change.

Machines with rotating spindles or arbors don't care or know what the operator installs on them. They just spin at the determined RPMs.
Whether it's a saw blade or a stacked dado, it makes no difference to the saw. It does require a different approach from the operator because the amount of material being removed is much greater with a dado, so the feed rate must be adjusted down a bit. Most machines with spinning arbors can perform more than one function. A tablesaw can rip, crosscut or make dados. Even cove cuts by sliding the work across the blade at a skewed angle between two guides. The table saw is not called "the heart of the woodworking shop" for whimsical reasons. It's because it is so versatile.

I've used both a router and a guide and a table saw. Here's what I know:
On the table saw, you must hold the work down flat on the table or it will leave a bump up in your dado. It's accurate if you register the work continuously against the fence.

Using the hand held router, you must hold the router base firmly against the guide at all time or you'll have a "divot" in the dado which will be unsightly and your workpiece will NOT fit in the dado!

 

[woodnthings]

Is a long fence really required for ripping long boards? Wouldn't good infeed and outfeed support suffice if the fence was 24" long, say, and rock-steady? There aren't any lateral forces on the board with good infeed and outfeed support. Compact was not always a synonym for portable like it is today. The compact tilting arbor saws made in the 1940s and 1950s, with their cast-iron tables and heavy motors, were really too heavy to be tossed in the back of a truck, even if some manufacturers tried to position them as "portable". But they were really just "non-stationary". I'd like a modern 10" version of one of those saws with premium (but short) rails and premium (but short) fence and HP/voltage options in the motor. What I'm willing to sacrifice is sheet goods.

You don't seem to understand how the fence actually works, so I'll try to explain.
Imagine a straight edged board guided along the fence. They run parallel all the way as it's pushed along.
Imagine a board with a curve registered against a straight fence. There will be a concave portion where the board only contacts the ends on the fence.
As you push the curved board along, the contact point at the rear follows the curve, creating a cured cut in the board's kerf. A short fence will exacerbate the curve.
A longer fence may reduce the amount of curve, but it will still not be straight.

This is why one of the "rules" of using a rip fence on the table saw is to start with a straight edge board off the jointer first.
There are jigs, that are "essential" to making straight edge cuts on the table saw. I've made several of them and posted them here:

Straight Line Rip Jig

I've recently aquired several BF of white oak, that has been face planed, but not straight lined. I found this link for a simple jig, http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4283497 Just wondering if anyone has any advice on a better one, or if anyone has used something similar and had...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

You can't just run any old board along the fence and expect a straight edge to be cut from the blade. Physics won't allow that.
You never should run the convex edge of a board against the fence as it will rotate and kickback at you.

 

[Tony B]

I think what you need is a jobsite saw and then cut the fence and rails to suit your needs. Keep in mind that some of the jobsite table saws are cheaply made and so dont depend on stability, accuracy and repeatability. Or, find a good used cabinet saw and cut the rails, fence and possibly the top also to fit your needs.
BTW, what are you actually intending this saw to be used for/as?. There may be other alternatives.

 

[Tony B]

Here is a thought....call a saw manufacturer or dealer and see if they will sell you a saw with no fence and no rails. You can fabricate your own to suit your needs. I cant think of the name of the place but I know others on here will know what I am talking about - There is a place in Texas that custom makes Table saw fences with aluminum extrusions. Just about any size and length.

 

[Bob Bengal]

Imagine a straight edged board guided along the fence.

I agree with all of your post, and will add:

Say you are ripping an 8' board and have a perfect edge to run along the fence. With a longer fence it is easier to see if you are keeping the board in contact with the fence. Especially the length of the fence before the wood reaches the blade.

 

[woodnthings]

I agree with all of your post, and will add:

Say you are ripping an 8' board and have a perfect edge to run along the fence. With a longer fence it is easier to see if you are keeping the board in contact with the fence. Especially the length of the fence before the wood reaches the blade.

A long straight edge can be used against the fence to extend it like this:

Notice the concave gap between the rail and the fence, touching at either end of the plank.

 

[B Coll]

I do not want to cut large sheet goods on the table saw and don't have the space for a saw with long rails, but that pretty much eliminates 99% of what is available with the other features I would like to have:

Compact (26-30 inches wide max, with same size rails, 10" blade)
2HP, 220V motor (my garage has only one 110V circuit which my shop vac is plugged into, but it has two 220V circuits since I was hoping to get a 220V dust collector)
flat cast iron table and cast-iron trunnions
blade shroud that captures the dust below the table with a vacuum hose port
blade guard with vacuum hose port above the table
non-deflecting accurate and true fence


I would seriously consider Sawstop if they offered a saw as small as their new Compact model that's supposed to ship this fall, but with a T-slide fence on short rails, a 2HP 220V motor option, and priced around $1,500. Maybe Sawstop will offer a "Compact Pro" model

Not everyone works with sheet goods or wants to cut sheet goods on a table saw, and not everyone needs to do cross cuts on the table saw. I have a good miter saw with an INCRA track for cross-cuts, and if I ever need to work with sheets of plywood, I'll get a track saw. The table saw manufacturers are as bad as the car makers that force you to upgrade to the top trim level if you happen to want fog lights yet don't want the fancy stereo or the moon roof or the leather seats.

Have you considered looking for a Delta Unisaw or Powermatic 66 and simply taking the wings off of them? I would seriously consider a used quality saw over much of the poor quality stuff on the market today. For now you leave the wings off and have a compact size saw. Perhaps when you have more space you can put them on and have the saw for a lifetime.

 

[woodnthings]

If you are running much hardwood stock that needs a 3" depth of cut, you'll probably want a 3 HP motor. Used cabinet saws may be the solution. Don't use the side extensions and the size will be just about right. The used saws may fit into the budget of $1500 but may be hard to find. Deltas, Generals, Grizzly will be some choice, BUT they may also be older "right tilt" models. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, but for some it may be?
The sizes quoted for table size often included the side extension, so without them the basic table will be smaller.
For repeated ripping an outfeed extension is a must. I don't like roller stands they are not stable enough. I welded up my own heavy duty one with a 3" X 24" roller.

Have you considered looking for a (used) Delta Unisaw or Powermatic 66 and simply taking the wings off of them? I would seriously consider a used quality saw over much of the poor quality stuff on the market today. For now you leave the wings off and have a compact size saw. Perhaps when you have more space you can put them on and have the saw for a lifetime.

Exactly the same suggestion I made! This is a great solution to save space and have increased HP.

 

[mrblint]

It's kind of like asking for a Smart Car that can pull a semi trailer. If you want a saw specialized for long rips you want a long fence, the way you want a long bed jointer for long boards. Compact and jobsite saws are designed to be frequently hauled around in pickups, the fences lock in place at both ends, are compact and light weight. A T-Glide is none of that, just the fence without the rail weighs about what a compact saw does. The rail feels like something you could use in a bridge structure.

You are going to need to compromise on something, whether on what the saw can do, or the space it takes up in storage, etc.

10" 2 HP Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw at Grizzly.com

<h1>W1837 10" 2 HP Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw</h1> <h2>The best features of the cabinet and contractor saws combined into a hybrid.</h2> <p>The Shop Fox W1837 10" Open Stand Hybrid Table Saw was named as one of the Best Hybrid Table Saws for Contractors or DIY Projects by <em>Tool Digest</em>...

www.grizzly.com

A classic contractor TS has the motor sticking out the rear, limits how close to a wall you can store the saw. Hybrid saws have the motor underneath and in the bulge on the left side for a smaller stored footprint.

A hybrid saw with the motor below/behind the saw is the closest thing to what I'm looking for. But those affordably priced Grizzly and Shop Fox and similar saws are much wider than what I want and I'd have to get rid of the rails and find new ones. I want to install the saw at the end of a custom bench that serves as a long outfeed table behind the saw. I'd want the saw to be as compact as the old Craftsman cast iron saws. The modern remake would have a high quality fence, a 10" blade, a choice of motors, modern dust-collection, and modern safety features, ideally also a blade-stop mechanism. I would want the manufacturer's engineering team to make it as rock solid and accurate as possible within the constraints of a narrow table package, while giving the buyer the ability to add cast-iron wings, wider fence rails, and a more powerful motor, should they need those features. The engineers should erase from the set of design goals anything and everything that has to do with "portability" .

 

[mrblint]

Have you considered looking for a Delta Unisaw or Powermatic 66 and simply taking the wings off of them? I would seriously consider a used quality saw over much of the poor quality stuff on the market today. For now you leave the wings off and have a compact size saw. Perhaps when you have more space you can put them on and have the saw for a lifetime.

I really want to install the saw in a bench I'm going to make that will serve as the outfeed table. It's like a kitchen island with a saw on the end.

 

[woodnthings]

I really want to install the saw in a bench I'm going to make that will serve as the outfeed table. It's like a kitchen island with a saw on the end.

Based on the latest info above, the ideal solution is a Skil worm drive portable table saw.
It can be built into a table surround and has plenty of power for ripping thicker stock:

SKILSAW 10 in. Heavy-Duty Worm Drive Table Saw 15 Amp Corded Electric with Stand and Diablo Blade SPT99-12

The 10 in. Heavy-Duty Worm Drive Table Saw is the latest addition to SKILSAW table-saw lineup. SKILSAW legendary Worm Drive power train delivers superior torque, an aggressive 3 in. D of cut and 30 in.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Bob Bengal]

I really want to install the saw in a bench I'm going to make that will serve as the outfeed table.

One car garage right? I forget, will you be parking a car in the garage often or will it be a dedicated shop + lawn mower parking etc?

I mounted a DeWalt 10" jobsite saw in the end of a 7'x4' table, it works well. For your needs you might narrow the table to 30"ish and have it on casters to push against a wall.

There is a lot of "fudge" in HP ratings, amps are more reliable, for 120v 15amp is the general limit, and that's around 1.75hp, not 2hp. If you absolutely need more than that then go with 220v and then why stop at 2hp, get a 3hp.

Instead of adapting an existing new model maybe buy used and adapt. A contractor TS is basically a box with legs bolted below, motor out the back, a table on top, wings and fence rail bolted to the table. Buy a used contractor with a blown motor, junk fence, good table and blade mechanism.

Take the legs off and mount the saw in your table, this way you can match the saw top and out feed table height without it changing every time you move things. Get the 220 motor of your choice, new, plus wiring, switch etc it is expensive. Most fences of the type you want will have wider rails than you want, cut the rail, or make your own rail, or make your own fence + rail, it is possible make a good one DIY.