[BrandonD]

I'm getting slightly frustrated with myself. I'm starting my first project working with rough lumber (aromatic cedar) and my results from the jointer is mixed. It is this older 6" Boice-Crane 1400 that I inherited from my great grandfather and restored:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14418

It has adjustable height infeed and outfeed tables, three straight knives. It does not have cams to adjust the corners of the infeed table. I followed this video to make sure my tables were coplanar.

They weren't at first... in fact, they were drastically, visibly off. I could actually raise end of the infeed table with my hand... so I took it all apart and back together again and it's much closer. It's not perfect and only varies between front to back and by about 5-6 thousandths. Not sure how to get it better without any cams to adjust the corners, outside of maybe shimming it.

I then followed instructions to set my blades. I used the Rocker magnetic jig and set a ruler on top once the blade was set and the ruler only moved about 1/4" when manually turning the head (checked each blade, multiple points along each blade.)

The results? I'm getting tapered boards across the width of it. If I keep at it with numerous passes, a 4/4 board might end up with about 3/4" on one side and 7/8" thickness on the other. Additionally, I'm getting little "snipes" every 1/4" or so across the entire length of the board. Before yesterday's rebuild of the planer, I was getting a horrible gouge in the entire width of the last inch or so (I believe snipe), but that seems to have gone away.

It might be my technique as I actually jointed some 8/4 boards early on and thought they came out pretty well. But those were literally the first boards I ever jointed so I might not have known better. I'm taking really light passes and using two push pads. I'm pushing the board across with constant pressure and speed and adjust my pressure to be on the outfeed table once the board makes it over there. Brand new knives.

Any hints, tips?

 

[del schisler]

I'm getting slightly frustrated with myself. I'm starting my first project working with rough lumber (aromatic cedar) and my results from the jointer is mixed. It is this older 6" Boice-Crane 1400 that I inherited from my great grandfather and restored:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14418

It has adjustable height infeed and outfeed tables, three straight knives. It does not have cams to adjust the corners of the infeed table. I followed this video to make sure my tables were coplanar.
118 - Jointer Setup - YouTube

They weren't at first... in fact, they were drastically, visibly off. I could actually raise end of the infeed table with my hand... so I took it all apart and back together again and it's much closer. It's not perfect and only varies between front to back and by about 5-6 thousandths. Not sure how to get it better without any cams to adjust the corners, outside of maybe shimming it.

I then followed instructions to set my blades. I used the Rocker magnetic jig and set a ruler on top once the blade was set and the ruler only moved about 1/4" when manually turning the head (checked each blade, multiple points along each blade.)

The results? I'm getting tapered boards across the width of it. If I keep at it with numerous passes, a 4/4 board might end up with about 3/4" on one side and 7/8" thickness on the other. Additionally, I'm getting little "snipes" every 1/4" or so across the entire length of the board. Before yesterday's rebuild of the planer, I was getting a horrible gouge in the entire width of the last inch or so (I believe snipe), but that seems to have gone away.

It might be my technique as I actually jointed some 8/4 boards early on and thought they came out pretty well. But those were literally the first boards I ever jointed so I might not have known better. I'm taking really light passes and using two push pads. I'm pushing the board across with constant pressure and speed and adjust my pressure to be on the outfeed table once the board makes it over there. Brand new knives.

Any hints, tips?

the jointer will not make a board the same at each end unless it is , we will say 4" x 4" now run that board thro it will be joined and be the same at each end,, snipes come's from the end of the board passing from infeed to outfeed and not across the entire length of the board, could be 1 blade not just right ? check them again
i re-read the post again, if you are like planing the board flat and not the edge, now if you are holding lightley than the board is vibrating on and off very fast and making those what you have call snipes, hold down hard and they will go away,

 

[MrUnix]

Jointers will make your boards taper if you make multiple repeated passes in the same direction.. it's the nature of the beast and can be made worse with improper technique such as concentrating too much pressure on the in-feed table. Ideally, you want to make as few passes as possible to straighten up the edge and then make the other side parallel using your table saw. If you must make multiple passes, it's a good idea to run them through flipping the board end-over-end after each pass if possible. Again.. google is your friend, and there are a ton of videos and how-to's on proper use, technique and setup.

For the tables being out of plane.. mine was similar after the restore. To start, make sure the table ways are clean and free of debris, and make sure the bolts (one per table) that hold the tables onto the base are tight enough. You want them loose enough as to not restrict table adjustment, but tight enough so the table doesn't move when lifted from the end. You can get to them with a socket wrench from underneath through the chip chute. If they are still out of plane, shims must be used. I needed one on my out-feed table and used a piece of an aluminum soda can which is about 0.004" in thickness. As for the 1/4" gouge.. that sounds like one of your knives is set a bit higher than the others.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[BrandonD]

the jointer will not make a board the same at each end unless it is , we will say 4" x 4" now run that board thro it will be joined and be the same at each end,, snipes come's from the end of the board passing from infeed to outfeed and not across the entire length of the board, could be 1 blade not just right ? check them again
i re-read the post again, if you are like planing the board flat and not the edge, now if you are holding lightley than the board is vibrating on and off very fast and making those what you have call snipes, hold down hard and they will go away,

Thanks, I'll re-check the blades and apply more pressure to see if that helps.

Jointers will make your boards taper if you make multiple repeated passes in the same direction.. it's the nature of the beast and can be made worse with improper technique such as concentrating too much pressure on the in-feed table. Ideally, you want to make as few passes as possible to straighten up the edge and then make the other side parallel using your table saw. If you must make multiple passes, it's a good idea to run them through flipping the board end-over-end after each pass if possible. Again.. google is your friend, and there are a ton of videos and how-to's on proper use, technique and setup.

Just to clarify, I'm getting tapering across the width of the board when face jointing, not the length. That is something caused by the nature of the jointer? I thought about flipping the board around each pass but read you should joint with the grain and not against it.

For the tables being out of plane.. mine was similar after the restore. To start, make sure the table ways are clean and free of debris, and make sure the bolts (one per table) that hold the tables onto the base are tight enough. You want them loose enough as to not restrict table adjustment, but tight enough so the table doesn't move when lifted from the end. You can get to them with a socket wrench from underneath through the chip chute. If they are still out of plane, shims must be used. I needed one on my out-feed table and used a piece of an aluminum soda can which is about 0.004" in thickness. As for the 1/4" gouge.. that sounds like one of your knives is set a bit higher than the others.

I cleaned debris and adjusted the bolts yesterday when I had it apart. They're certainly pretty tight and the table does not move when lifted from the end anymore. It sounds like you have a similar jointer. Did you place your shims between the table and the upper ways like a washer?

Thanks guys!

 

[MrUnix]

Just to clarify, I'm getting tapering across the width of the board when face jointing, not the length.

That can be caused by out of plane tables, improper technique, improperly set knives or in some cases, a fence out of adjustment (not at a right angle to tables). The taper will become more pronounced the more passes you make, which again is another reason to try to make as few passes as possible. I would first check that the tables are the same level with each other front to back and then that the knives are set dead level with the out-feed table. Using a dial indicator can make things easier and more accurate.. I have set knives using a straight edge to where I was sure they were within 0.001" only to find out that they were much more out of alignment once I threw the indicator on it.

As for shimming.. a lot of machines need to have the shims placed in the ways.. fortunately, the BC1400 has a separate table bracket between the base and the tables, so you can place them under the bolts holding the table to the bracket (see attached photo). You don't really need to, but I did make them sort of like washers, with a hole in the middle so the bolt could go through the middle and ensure they never moved. Probably overkill but I had a hole punch handy and figured it wouldn't hurt any.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[GeorgeC]

I'm getting slightly frustrated with myself. I'm starting my first project working with rough lumber (aromatic cedar) and my results from the jointer is mixed. It is this older 6" Boice-Crane 1400 that I inherited from my great grandfather and restored:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14418

It has adjustable height infeed and outfeed tables, three straight knives. It does not have cams to adjust the corners of the infeed table. I followed this video to make sure my tables were coplanar.
118 - Jointer Setup - YouTube

They weren't at first... in fact, they were drastically, visibly off. I could actually raise end of the infeed table with my hand... so I took it all apart and back together again and it's much closer. It's not perfect and only varies between front to back and by about 5-6 thousandths. Not sure how to get it better without any cams to adjust the corners, outside of maybe shimming it.

I then followed instructions to set my blades. I used the Rocker magnetic jig and set a ruler on top once the blade was set and the ruler only moved about 1/4" when manually turning the head (checked each blade, multiple points along each blade.)

The results? I'm getting tapered boards across the width of it. If I keep at it with numerous passes, a 4/4 board might end up with about 3/4" on one side and 7/8" thickness on the other. Additionally, I'm getting little "snipes" every 1/4" or so across the entire length of the board. Before yesterday's rebuild of the planer, I was getting a horrible gouge in the entire width of the last inch or so (I believe snipe), but that seems to have gone away.

It might be my technique as I actually jointed some 8/4 boards early on and thought they came out pretty well. But those were literally the first boards I ever jointed so I might not have known better. I'm taking really light passes and using two push pads. I'm pushing the board across with constant pressure and speed and adjust my pressure to be on the outfeed table once the board makes it over there. Brand new knives.

Any hints, tips?

" I'm pushing the board across with constant pressure and speed and adjust my pressure to be on the outfeed table once the board makes it over there."

Your pressure should be more centered than over out feed table.

G

 

[woodnthings]

let's start over

Get a quality aluminum level 48" long with machined edges.... it's a good straight edge for checking the tables to see if they are co-planer. This is a must. Grab the infeed table from the bottom and see if you can lift it up or wiggle it in any way IF it's locked. Do the same for the out feed. If there is an issue , fix that first.

Then clamp the level to the outfeed table and raise or lower the infeed so that the level sits flat across both tables by sighting underneath with a bright light....no gaps or light showing. Adjust as required. Use a feeler guage if that suits you.

Set the blades so they just touch the bottom of the level right to left in the cutter head. Now everything is zeroed out on the jointer.
Lower the infeed to take a 1/32" deep pass and you are ready to start joining.

Proper technique, at least the way I do it is to first sight down the board for cup twist and warp. I place the the concave side down and make a pass to see where the wood is being removed. You must flip the board end for end in a severe case of warp removing small amounts from the ends. The jointer is NOT a one pass, good to go, machine operation. It requires sighting down the board to check the progress, and multiple passes.

As far as pressure, I use just firm pressure on the outfeed, once the board shows and even color of material being removed.

I think the issue in your case is that the knives are not parallel to the cutter head and level across with the tables.... JMO.

 

[BrandonD]

Thanks to you guys, I think I have my jointer setup good. I think my issues were due to a combination of poor setup and technique. I face and edge jointed four boards yesterday and checked them using a square and they're damn near perfect. To get any better I think I'll have to buy a dial indicator for the knives, something I want to and might do anyway.

Question though... I watched a video and the guy stated that you do not have to get the face entirely flat on the jointer, only get the four corners or most of the center flat and then run it through the planer. Does this ring true for you guys? I tried it out last night. One of my boards had somewhat of a bad cupping to it and I knocked down the four corners with a few passes which left rough surface in the middle. I then went to the planer and planed with the jointed side down until the top was entirely flat, flipped and planed the jointed side until it was entirely flat. Both faces were square to the jointed edge...

 

[woodnthings]

flat is relative

The procedure you describe will work as long as the board can't shift or tilt under the pressure of the feed rollers. It doesn't have to be cleaned down to an even color from the jointer to the bed of the planer.
I'm sure you are aware of "planer sleds" which will hold a twisted board securely and keep it from shifting in the planer, taking off the top surface until it's flat enough to flip over.
Here's one I made from 2 rails and some threaded rod:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/planer-sled-rails-14940/

 

[TomC]

Thanks to you guys, I think I have my jointer setup good. I think my issues were due to a combination of poor setup and technique. I face and edge jointed four boards yesterday and checked them using a square and they're damn near perfect. To get any better I think I'll have to buy a dial indicator for the knives, something I want to and might do anyway.

Question though... I watched a video and the guy stated that you do not have to get the face entirely flat on the jointer, only get the four corners or most of the center flat and then run it through the planer. Does this ring true for you guys? I tried it out last night. One of my boards had somewhat of a bad cupping to it and I knocked down the four corners with a few passes which left rough surface in the middle. I then went to the planer and planed with the jointed side down until the top was entirely flat, flipped and planed the jointed side until it was entirely flat. Both faces were square to the jointed edge...

Four corners by ifs self is not going to do it. You need enough of the board flat so it rides flat all the way through the planer. I have done this and it works.
Tom

 

[BrandonD]

Thanks guys. I face and edge jointed probably 40-50ft of board yesterday and they all came out great according to my square.