For some items, you are correct. If you renovate an area and use the existing stairs where they are, even if not to code, you are ok. If you remove the stairs and install new ones, they must meet code. If you have a basement, then it does not have to meet code. If you renovate that basement and make bedrooms, then they must meet code, have fire egress windows, two means of exit, and smoke detection among other things
Help Stair Stringers please
Hi all, I’m new here and new to cutting stair stringers. Any help would be appreciated as I’m going up and down my basement by ladder and hearing earfuls from my wife.
I watched hours of YouTube diy and read countless number of articles on cutting out and building my own staircase.
This past weekend I demolished my basement staircase and cut out my first template.
The total rise is 95.75 – .25 for the floor so I used 95.5 and 8 as the rise per step given the space I have available. Each tread will be 9.5”. I cut the stringer out with treads at 9 and the risers at 8. There will be a .5” overhang on the treads.
After making the template I set it on the headboard and the stringer is tilting a bit forward so there’s about a 1/8 gap on the top of the stringer leading me to believe I may have cut the bottom riser 1/8 too much? But when I had my wife lift up the bottom of the stringer she had to bring it up several inches for the stringer to be flush with the head board. I’m using Simpson strong tie joint connectors, cutting a total of 4 stringers and attaching them to the headboard so a total of 10 treads and 11 risers on the stringer.
Is 1/8” gap acceptable at the top of the riser where it connects to the headboard?
or can I just compensate and cut 1/8” less material on the riser on the next stringer cut? Or better yet cut a second piece of plywood and nail it on the headboard which should reduce the space between the stringer and headboard?
Any advice would be extremely appreciate I would be very grateful. Have a wonderful thanksgiving.
-Aaron
I watched hours of YouTube diy and read countless number of articles on cutting out and building my own staircase.
This past weekend I demolished my basement staircase and cut out my first template.
The total rise is 95.75 – .25 for the floor so I used 95.5 and 8 as the rise per step given the space I have available. Each tread will be 9.5”. I cut the stringer out with treads at 9 and the risers at 8. There will be a .5” overhang on the treads.
After making the template I set it on the headboard and the stringer is tilting a bit forward so there’s about a 1/8 gap on the top of the stringer leading me to believe I may have cut the bottom riser 1/8 too much? But when I had my wife lift up the bottom of the stringer she had to bring it up several inches for the stringer to be flush with the head board. I’m using Simpson strong tie joint connectors, cutting a total of 4 stringers and attaching them to the headboard so a total of 10 treads and 11 risers on the stringer.
Is 1/8” gap acceptable at the top of the riser where it connects to the headboard?
or can I just compensate and cut 1/8” less material on the riser on the next stringer cut? Or better yet cut a second piece of plywood and nail it on the headboard which should reduce the space between the stringer and headboard?
Any advice would be extremely appreciate I would be very grateful. Have a wonderful thanksgiving.
-Aaron
41 - 55 of 55 Posts
The local building inspector passed my newly built non-conforming stairs when renovating my house last year due to conforming stairs not being deemed feasible as a result of the existing construction not allowing for conforming rise and headroom.
Prior to commencing I invited the building inspector over to take a look and discuss after my structural engineer/GC wanted to bang me $30K to modify the existing stairway opening to allow for conforming stairs.
Prior to commencing I invited the building inspector over to take a look and discuss after my structural engineer/GC wanted to bang me $30K to modify the existing stairway opening to allow for conforming stairs.
professional integrity? you'd tell someone to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars based on what? your feelings? i'm a civil engineer, i am required to follow rules and codes, i've signed documents to that fact. if i told a client that they had to modify their home to bring the stairs up to code and they sued me, i'd be on the hook to pay that bill. any contractor would be on the hook.Allow me to paraphrase my previous post for clarity:
In my area, replacements must be built to code as a matter of professional integrity.. I've not yet been able to locate a specific code requirement to satisfy your request.
Simply put, I offered up nothing to the original conversation, and also never implicitly stated that the op was required to rebuild his stairs to code.
again, you are both offering up opinion and what you think is code. this is why simple electrical questions go off the rails in this forum. people offer up opinion as hard facts and then repeat that opinion as fact, when there are actual rules to follow.For some items, you are correct. If you renovate an area and use the existing stairs where they are, even if not to code, you are ok. If you remove the stairs and install new ones, they must meet code. If you have a basement, then it does not have to meet code. If you renovate that basement and make bedrooms, then they must meet code, have fire egress windows, two means of exit, and smoke detection among other things
as an electrical contractor i am required to know the code. ungrounded outlets are common in old houses, there is no code that requires you to upgrade the electrical to live in or sell a house. you are required to add gfic receptacles if you alter the wiring, like in a remodel, but no code requires me to tear into all the walls to upgrade to current code. believe it or not knob and tube wiring is still code. as are old stairs.
i agree that if you alter the design, like add bedrooms to a basement you need to meet updated egress and wiring requirements. but you have altered the design. just like a remodeled bathroom must meet new code. if you notice i've asked the op twice about the old stringer and received no reply.
there is also no code that requires anyone to gut their home and do structural changes when updating stairs. unless you can quote code, don't quote code. for me to rebuild my stairs to code would require deleting two bedrooms upstairs, losing 1/4 of my living room, adding a column in the center of living room and relocating the upstairs hall. i'd have to structurally rebuild my house, it would be less cost to tear it down and build new. tell me what code requires this.
The OP said:
Would making new ones force him into building them to the latest codes?
Can he build a different riser and run combination IF it would fit the existing parameters, especially the limited run?
Could he set the stars back into the upstairs floor, IF that would be acceptable to him without code violations or upgrading?
Seems like these questions needed to be raised and answered at the start rather than having all this conjecture along the way.
He didn't say why he demolished the stairs, but what if they had just deteriorated to the point they were unsafe?This past weekend I demolished my basement staircase and cut out my first template.
Would making new ones force him into building them to the latest codes?
Can he build a different riser and run combination IF it would fit the existing parameters, especially the limited run?
Could he set the stars back into the upstairs floor, IF that would be acceptable to him without code violations or upgrading?
Seems like these questions needed to be raised and answered at the start rather than having all this conjecture along the way.
I’m not certain if the following applies:professional integrity? you'd tell someone to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars based on what? your feelings? i'm a civil engineer, i am required to follow rules and codes, i've signed documents to that fact. if i told a client that they had to modify their home to bring the stairs up to code and they sued me, i'd be on the hook to pay that bill. any contractor would be on the hook.
again, you are both offering up opinion and what you think is code. this is why simple electrical questions go off the rails in this forum. people offer up opinion as hard facts and then repeat that opinion as fact, when there are actual rules to follow.
as an electrical contractor i am required to know the code. ungrounded outlets are common in old houses, there is no code that requires you to upgrade the electrical to live in or sell a house. you are required to add gfic receptacles if you alter the wiring, like in a remodel, but no code requires me to tear into all the walls to upgrade to current code. believe it or not knob and tube wiring is still code. as are old stairs.
i agree that if you alter the design, like add bedrooms to a basement you need to meet updated egress and wiring requirements. but you have altered the design. just like a remodeled bathroom must meet new code. if you notice i've asked the op twice about the old stringer and received no reply.
there is also no code that requires anyone to gut their home and do structural changes when updating stairs. unless you can quote code, don't quote code. for me to rebuild my stairs to code would require deleting two bedrooms upstairs, losing 1/4 of my living room, adding a column in the center of living room and relocating the upstairs hall. i'd have to structurally rebuild my house, it would be less cost to tear it down and build new. tell me what code requires this.
IBC 1104.10.1 Dimensions for replacement stairways:
The replacement of an existing stairway in a structure shall not be required to comply with the new stairway requirements of Section 1009 where the existing space and construction will not allow a reduction in pitch or slope.
Ogre, I've referred to code as it applies to building a compliant set of stairs.
I've not once stated to the op that they are required to adhere to that.
Not once.
In regards to professional integrity... All that means is that if I'm invited in to a prospective customer's home to assess a scope of work, I'm going to look at it from a compliance perspective first, then offer up my proposal.
If there is a difference in what they expect me to do, and what I propose to.... Then we can simply end the relationship there.
I'm not in any position to force a homeowner to alter their home.
That's it, that's all it comes down to.
I would like to see stairs built to fall within all the prescriptive requirements, but I also know that not every job will allow for that.
I am still looking for a code reference to satisfy your request.
I've not once stated to the op that they are required to adhere to that.
Not once.
In regards to professional integrity... All that means is that if I'm invited in to a prospective customer's home to assess a scope of work, I'm going to look at it from a compliance perspective first, then offer up my proposal.
If there is a difference in what they expect me to do, and what I propose to.... Then we can simply end the relationship there.
I'm not in any position to force a homeowner to alter their home.
That's it, that's all it comes down to.
I would like to see stairs built to fall within all the prescriptive requirements, but I also know that not every job will allow for that.
I am still looking for a code reference to satisfy your request.
You may need to check with your insurance company to see if they would pay off on an injury caused by an out of code stairs, existing or otherwise.
awe come on jim! scare tactics? you'll be sued for everything you own? that's like saying you should check with your insurance company before taking your evening stroll.
the op stairs are built to code, my stairs are built to code, knob and tube wiring is built to code: just not current code. and no code requires you to update to current code.
the op stairs are built to code, my stairs are built to code, knob and tube wiring is built to code: just not current code. and no code requires you to update to current code.
I didn’t read all three pages for this post, did read the first however. You’re wondering about your small discrepancy on your stringers not fitting. Where did you measure for the height of your stairs? If you measured from the stair opening where the top of the stringer is going to sit, the floor may be off some. Always measure where the bottom of the stringer is going to sit. If you did that, than rule that out. Your rounding up on each rise is more than likely your discrepancy.
Mike Hawkins
Mike Hawkins
I would never assume that your insurance company is going to cover you if they can find an excuse to get out lf it. My present house has some Poly B plumbing, it was to code when the house was built, today I pay a premium for water damage until I can get it changed out. One of my previous houses had a 60 amp service that slipped through the cracks for 10 years until one year when I was renewing it, when the agent read the contract to me I corrected the 100 amp that was listed. He said I was lucky, they only cover 60 amp services if there is an electrical inspection every five years to make sure it is not overloaded, had there been an electrical fire I would have been out of luck.
never heard of poly-b, but have now. wow, what a disaster! no use in the states that i could see. i view pex with the same caution until it's proven another 20 years. i still plumb everything in tried and true copper. if the client demands pex, i'll run pex exposed in a basement, but never hidden in the walls.
some products are so bad that insurance won't cover them or resort to added premiums. i've never seen an inspector require replacement of a product or method that was code at the time. take aluminum wire, it's still code and in use today. most houses have aluminum wire in them, mostly in big circuits and from the meter base to panel. the 60 amp panel, if wired correctly, poses no hazard or safety issues, that is strictly a stupid insurance thing.
some products are so bad that insurance won't cover them or resort to added premiums. i've never seen an inspector require replacement of a product or method that was code at the time. take aluminum wire, it's still code and in use today. most houses have aluminum wire in them, mostly in big circuits and from the meter base to panel. the 60 amp panel, if wired correctly, poses no hazard or safety issues, that is strictly a stupid insurance thing.
" the 60 amp panel, if wired correctly, poses no hazard or safety issues, that is strictly a stupid insurance thing."
As far as I am concerned it is a scam, I paid $350 for an electrician to inspect it and give me a certificate after doing another $300 work, replacing several breakers and installing some ground fault outlets.
Five tears later I paid another company $500 for inspection and over $1000 material and labor for updating once again. I thought it was high but was told that was the only way I would get the certificate.
Sold the house two months later, new owners approached my insurance company, they would not accept my certificate, he had to pay for another inspection to get his own certificate.
As far as I am concerned it is a scam, I paid $350 for an electrician to inspect it and give me a certificate after doing another $300 work, replacing several breakers and installing some ground fault outlets.
Five tears later I paid another company $500 for inspection and over $1000 material and labor for updating once again. I thought it was high but was told that was the only way I would get the certificate.
Sold the house two months later, new owners approached my insurance company, they would not accept my certificate, he had to pay for another inspection to get his own certificate.
breakers protect wire. if wired correctly you can't overload the wire.
my shop has a 30 amp 12 breaker panel with one 240v 20a, four 120v 15a and four 120v 20a breakers, added up is 160 amps, but the 30a main breaker won't allow any more than 30 amp load on the wire. i'm always aware of the load i use out there and have never tripped a breaker, plus i still have room for 2 more breakers. 60 amp wire is probably good for double the amps if you figure in the safety factor. the problem comes in when people actually double the breaker size and are surprised when the insulation melt and starts a fire.
i have a 5200 watt, 21.67 amp, generator that runs my whole 200 amp, 48,000 watt, panel (no ac) if the power goes out. this includes a gas furnace, 3/4hp well pump, fridge and freezer. again, i can't overload any part of the circuit to the house. running my whole house 200 amp panel on a 21 amp generator sorta indicates how over wired and safe wiring in general can be.
my shop has a 30 amp 12 breaker panel with one 240v 20a, four 120v 15a and four 120v 20a breakers, added up is 160 amps, but the 30a main breaker won't allow any more than 30 amp load on the wire. i'm always aware of the load i use out there and have never tripped a breaker, plus i still have room for 2 more breakers. 60 amp wire is probably good for double the amps if you figure in the safety factor. the problem comes in when people actually double the breaker size and are surprised when the insulation melt and starts a fire.
i have a 5200 watt, 21.67 amp, generator that runs my whole 200 amp, 48,000 watt, panel (no ac) if the power goes out. this includes a gas furnace, 3/4hp well pump, fridge and freezer. again, i can't overload any part of the circuit to the house. running my whole house 200 amp panel on a 21 amp generator sorta indicates how over wired and safe wiring in general can be.
So, if I understand you, that 21 AMP generator can power any appliances needed to "run" your house up to it's maximum output of 21 AMPs, possibly with a brief overload. The 30 AMP breaker will probably never trip running on the generator because the load will stall out the generator first?
The 30 AMP shop panel has the "capacity" of 200 AMPs but the "load" can't exceed 30 AMPs or it will trip the breaker. This doesn't happen because you never run all the machines at the same time. My 100 AMP shop sub panel is much the same. There's is a whole lot more "capacity" in breakers, than there ever will be in "load" at any given time. Even with a 22 AMP space heater and a 3 HP planer running with the all the lights on, it doesn't even come close to a 100 AMP load.
The 30 AMP shop panel has the "capacity" of 200 AMPs but the "load" can't exceed 30 AMPs or it will trip the breaker. This doesn't happen because you never run all the machines at the same time. My 100 AMP shop sub panel is much the same. There's is a whole lot more "capacity" in breakers, than there ever will be in "load" at any given time. Even with a 22 AMP space heater and a 3 HP planer running with the all the lights on, it doesn't even come close to a 100 AMP load.
total derail of the original thread, but the op has not been back.
30A is the shop subpanel, the generator has a 20A twistlock plug and i assume a 20A overload/breaker. so the house panel can run on a 20A generator. probably a slight overload if the 3/4hp well pump comes on when the furnace and a couple lights are on, but i trust the breakers to protect everything. the generator won't stall, it'll kick out the internal breaker if it gets overloaded. i do run the generator out in the barn, backfeeding my main panel from the shop subpanel. i don't switch on lights willy nilly all over the house, nor use the oven. i'm just happy to have heat and water if the power goes out.
30A shop panel kept me from installing a dc for years. i'm careful not to have the compressor on with the dc and i'll wait for the furnace to turn off before starting the dc. i did have to move the table saw power over to the other leg of the panel. i'm definitely maxed out with the dc on. led lighting helped a lot for loading a panel, it's a small draw compared to the old T12 fluorescents.
30A is the shop subpanel, the generator has a 20A twistlock plug and i assume a 20A overload/breaker. so the house panel can run on a 20A generator. probably a slight overload if the 3/4hp well pump comes on when the furnace and a couple lights are on, but i trust the breakers to protect everything. the generator won't stall, it'll kick out the internal breaker if it gets overloaded. i do run the generator out in the barn, backfeeding my main panel from the shop subpanel. i don't switch on lights willy nilly all over the house, nor use the oven. i'm just happy to have heat and water if the power goes out.
30A shop panel kept me from installing a dc for years. i'm careful not to have the compressor on with the dc and i'll wait for the furnace to turn off before starting the dc. i did have to move the table saw power over to the other leg of the panel. i'm definitely maxed out with the dc on. led lighting helped a lot for loading a panel, it's a small draw compared to the old T12 fluorescents.
41 - 55 of 55 Posts
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