Woodworking Talk banner
21 - 40 of 80 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,651 Posts
"no where as old as the guy that has got hold of them." I know what you mean, I am getting very white haired but, I look at it like this, I am one of the lucky ones to get this far.:thumbsup::yes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Billy De

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,388 Posts
I'm loving this post and am on board for the long haul. I like the chipping out the tail trick for the saw ledge too. I'll have to try that. I don't know why I never thought of that, I do that for other sawing. Once you get done we'll have to have others show their methods too. I'm guessing just about all of us can learn a tip or two or the whole darn process on this thread!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I'm loving this post and am on board for the long haul. I like the chipping out the tail trick for the saw ledge too. I'll have to try that. I don't know why I never thought of that, I do that for other sawing. Once you get done we'll have to have others show their methods too. I'm guessing just about all of us can learn a tip or two or the whole darn process on this thread!
ACP that's what I`m looking forward to also it always great to learn new things.

Sawdust that`s something to to look forward to I believe Rob Cosman wont let any one par their joints I think I would struggle there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ok a few more words to tools, even up to the point of when I bought my brass back I couldn't make my mind up whether I wanted a dove tail saw or a tenon saw so in the end I went for a compromise, with a blade from 12" its a bit to long for a dove tail but with 16TPI its cut like a dove tail saw so it like a dove tail saw on steroids.

What do I mean by TPI, well "teeth per inch" there is also another measurement PPI what's that, "points per inch".
the difference is TPI counts the whole teeth per inch and PPI only counts the points per inch so 16TPI could also be 17PPI.

Hows that worked out? with PPI you lose 1/2 a tooth at the start of the inch and at the end of the inch so this gives you 1 extra point.

Confusing yea but not worth worrying about just something to note.

Both dove tails and tenon saw are rip saws because they both cut on the long grain of the wood.

Sharpening, Brink posted an excellent link not so long ago maybe he`ll post it again? save me a lot of work.

Coping saw or fret saw? Neither one is wrong its what floats your boat,I use the coping saw but the fret saw has a lot thinner blade and is able to start the cut straight from get go.
The coping saw you place in the kerf and twist as you start to cut.
I`v posted a pic the coping saw is on top.

Chisels well there's no getting away from sharp chisels and there is a lot of information on how to get and keep them sharp on the forum already.
I think you would need a minimum of 1/4",3/8",1/2" and maybe 3/4" bevel edge firmer chisels but TJMO.you need to keep in mind what chisels you have when laying the dove tails out.

JMO but I think there are some good bargains on second hand and old chisel,named chisels are old chisels with the makers name stamped into the steel if the maker was proud enough to put his name on it I don't think you will go far wrong.
If you`v never fetteled a chisel maybe just pick one up and try it what do you have to lose?

I`v posted pic`s of two chisels that I didn't really want but I think the tool gods would have been evel with me if I left them, both beat up a1/2" sorby, one of England's finest old chisel makers, that was being used by a painter to open his paint cans.I gave him a big screw driver for it(he was more than happy) and a 1" W marpels. old school.

SKew chisel I`ll be using them later.
Parring chisels a real pleasure to use so thin that they are never struck with any thing a cutting edge of 25 degree`s and that's it I have 3 and while they are not struck I put Plum handles on them I love these chisels.

Fish tail chisel its really a carvers chisel but comes into its own when cutting half blind dove tails it looks like a thin chisel that's been flattend out on the end with a hammer super sharp the advantage over the skew is that you don't have to keep changing chisels but the one chisel will cut on both sides left and right.

Phew I think i need a rest.
 

Attachments

·
Drives his wife nuts...
Joined
·
202 Posts
Question...

First, Billy thanks for this. You've already answered a couple of questions I had.

But, how do you determine the width of the pins/tails? Based on the tool you use to set the angles, size of the board, personal preference/style?
 

·
Erik
Joined
·
134 Posts
JQMack said:
First, Billy thanks for this. You've already answered a couple of questions I had.

But, how do you determine the width of the pins/tails? Based on the tool you use to set the angles, size of the board, personal preference/style?
That's the same thing I've been asking myself, so far haven't found an answer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
A big thanks to Billy for initiating this discussion and for sharing so much of your time/experience.

JQMack and Viorato, I can only speak from my experience in cutting dovetails (making about 12 small boxes) and the width of the board is one thing that determines the width/number of dovetails I use.

The other thing is the appearance you want. Do you want many small dovetails, fewer large, even number of them or odd?? I'm only making small boxes, so visual appeal is what I'm concerned with, and I don't think there are any rules for this other than what looks good to you. Of course, if you are talking about the strength of the joint for drawers, I'm sure others will add their experiences.

- Tim
 

·
Erik
Joined
·
134 Posts
trc65 said:
A big thanks to Billy for initiating this discussion and for sharing so much of your time/experience.

JQMack and Viorato, I can only speak from my experience in cutting dovetails (making about 12 small boxes) and the width of the board is one thing that determines the width/number of dovetails I use.

The other thing is the appearance you want. Do you want many small dovetails, fewer large, even number of them or odd?? I'm only making small boxes, so visual appeal is what I'm concerned with, and I don't think there are any rules for this other than what looks good to you. Of course, if you are talking about the strength of the joint for drawers, I'm sure others will add their experiences.

- Tim
Thanks Tim for your response and thanks Billy for starting this thead and sharing with us your method of hand cutting dovetails . Let's say that I have a 5" board and I want small dovetails how would you find the width of each tail/pin ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
So back to the job the tails are marked out and now it`s time to start cutting, first we have to address the piece .What do i mean by that? Well we all do it but we've been doing so long we don't even think about it but a new guy would.
Put the saw where you want to cut,set your feet a little apart but steady, place your shoulder directly behind the saw,your elbow in line with the saw and your shoulder ,grip the saw with three fingers and your thumb your index finger against the handle but pointing straight out.


What`s that with the finger?If you hold the handle with all four fingers and thumb you get no feed back if the saw wants to tip one way or another.
Extend the index finger and it becomes an extension of the arm and you can immediately feel if the saw is tipping and the wrist automatically corrects this,IMHO Disston understood this and that is why he cut away the saw and moved the handle further into the saw to give even more control over the saw.

Its only when you try to replace something that you know just how and why it works.the horns on the handle are not there for decoration the top horn fits between the thumb and index finger to allow you to push when needed, the bottom horn fits just under the fleshy part of the thumb and allows you to control the weight of the saw. (see pic)


The method of cutting that is now describe is an an adaption of how to cut the cheeks of a tenon.
Start by moving the saw forward not backwards but forward watching the knife lines on the top and side.You`ll have to blow the saw dust away as your doing it or you wont see the lines.
You finish with a cut line 45degrees in the piece.(see pic)

Later when confidence and skill increase you can then bring the saw back level and continue the cut strait down but for now stop there.
I`v cut all three cuts on the face side turned the piece around and cut the three cuts on the back turn it back again so what you have now is all cuts complete but with a solid piece of wood right in the hart of the cut in this manner you use the kerf twice to guide the saw and use the path of least resistance.

I hope this makes sense so far if, not say so.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Sorry guys you posted all that when I was typing.Brink thinking isn`t the word for it BTW some guys where asking about sharpening saws have you still got that link if not I`ll come back to Sharpening later.I have never had any one explain to me a rule of laying out dove tails if there is one and some one knows it lets hear it and we can all learn. If you use one rule I think you will have to explain how it works say in a London dove tail and there is such a thing its more tail than pin.

The only rule I know is it must look right then it is right, because it is hand cut.I`v never had any client complain that one tail was thinner than another but I think you would hear them complain if there was gaps in it. In some cases if you are to continue with the job you must cut a tal thinner or through half the job away.To me that's the way of hand cut dove tails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
So more pics than words because it`s to long for Dominick.
Cut out waste with coping saw.
The piece clamped to the bench because I don't want it bouncing around all over the place.
A tip for guys that are not quite sure on holding the chisel square fasten a bloc on the bass line and creep up on it when you chop the waste out.

Chop half way and then turn it over but leave a small piece in the middle because if you try to chop half and the half you will burst a piece out of the middle of the joint

Clean up with a paring chisel or a sharp bevel edged chisel.Try to make sure the tails are really clean where they meat the bass line.

Set the chisel in the knife marks and par into the middle of the tail from both sides, don't try to do it from one side because you could burst the wood on the out side.

so all cleaned up and ready for the pins.
 

Attachments

·
Log dog
Joined
·
7,933 Posts
You asked for critiques, so I gave them to you. Be careful what you ask for. I even said your fine thanks. Lol.
Would you mind if I post a short video?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
So this is where a tail could end up smaller than the others its time to check the tails for square.

Why is this so impotent? When you use the tails for the template to cut out the pins you use the bottom of the tails to mark out the top of the pins if its not square at this stage you will have problems either gaps or too tight, to fit on.
So now is the time to do something about it if it means re cutting a tail then just do it, you can`t leave it if is not square.

Because I use a knife to mark out I don`t want any danger of either piece moving I use 2 mitre clamps to fasten every thing down before I mark the tails.Line the bass line up to the piece and mark with a knife.

Freshen the marks up then square the lines down.
 

Attachments

21 - 40 of 80 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top