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where's my table saw?
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Here's one right off Ebay:
See how close to the threads the flange is. There should only be 1/8" of bare shaft exposed.

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another one. Cheap enough if you want to replace your or as a spare:
 

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That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.
I agree, different design. I'm pretty sure some of the Craftsman saws had an arbor where the flange was a part of the shaft (it was machined from a single piece of steel). That would be the older saws and I think what @woodnthings showed. The newer saws (talking 1950s as old, 1990s like yours new) had a pressed on flange.

A couple of questions:
1) was there a blade on it when you bought it and was it tight?
2) how did you get the bearings off of it? Did you have to use a puller or press to get them off? Is it possible you moved the flange while getting the bearings off?

Here is a picture from another thread on this forum. I think this is similar to your saw. You can see how close to the flange is to the threads. 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem It's from post #11 on this thread: 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem You can see a line around your arbor in about the place where the flange is in this picture and what looks like scratches or grooves going from that point to where your flange is.

I'm sure you could move the flange using a press or several other methods. My fear is that doing so makes it loose on the shaft. The flange might then spin on the shaft and your blade won't turn, especially when a lot of pressure is on the blade. Also, you need to keep the flange 90 degrees to the shaft or you will have runout and your blade will wobble. I don't have an idea for moving the flange that I am comfortable recommending.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Here's one right off Ebay:
See how close to the threads the washer is. There should only be 1/8" of bare shaft exposed.
That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.
I agree, different design. I'm pretty sure some of the Craftsman saws had an arbor where the flange was a part of the shaft (it was machined from a single piece of steel). That would be the older saws and I think what @woodnthings showed. The newer saws (talking 1950s as old, 1990s like yours new) had a pressed on flange.
Yup, mine doesn't have two keys at the end; only one key for the pulley. The arbor shown is for an 8" table saw. And it looks like my flange is not machined from the same piece of steel.

A couple of questions:
1) was there a blade on it when you bought it and was it tight?
2) how did you get the bearings off of it? Did you have to use a puller or press to get them off? Is it possible you moved the flange while getting the bearings off?
1. Yup, the blade was mounted, and it had a lot of thread sticking out from the end past the nut, as the nut was almost all the way down. It was tight though, as I had to really jam a piece of scrap wood into the blade to hold it and break the nut loose.
2. I did not use a gear puller, though that's one option. I used PB Blaster and a method of removal using a large wrench to hold it in place by the bearing, then tap the shaft down gently. For the one bearing that was right up against the flange, I used the thing wrench included with the table saw, then switched to a regular wrench later.

Here is a picture from another thread on this forum. I think this is similar to your saw. You can see how close to the flange is to the threads. 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem It's from post #11 on this thread: 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem You can see a line around your arbor in about the place where the flange is in this picture and what looks like scratches or grooves going from that point to where your flange is.

I'm sure you could move the flange using a press or several other methods. My fear is that doing so makes it loose on the shaft. The flange might then spin on the shaft and your blade won't turn, especially when a lot of pressure is on the blade. Also, you need to keep the flange 90 degrees to the shaft or you will have runout and your blade will wobble. I don't have an idea for moving the flange that I am comfortable recommending.
The flange was in this position before I removed everything, and blade was tight, so it should be fine. It does look long in the photo, so I'll add the blade, collar, and nut and double check while I still have it removed from the housing. I'll post a photo of it too. I noticed that it does show the flange closer to the threads on the arbor in my manual.

Thanks for all of the advice and bringing up possible concerns. Much appreciated, as it helps me think through things as well. :)
 

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where's my table saw?
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That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.
Yes, a different design for a different saw, BUT the conditions of mounting a thin saw blade on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!

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the conditions of mounting a thin saw blade on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!
Well, @cipher said the flange was in the position we see and a blade was tight on it when he got it. Seems strange to me, but without the saw in front of me, I could certainly be missing something. I'm sure he'll post some pictures and let us know how it goes when he puts everything back together. If the flange is moved over as much as it appears to me, the arbor might not be long enough on the other end to go through the bearing and mount the pulley (or is it a sheave? :oops:).
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
... on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!
Well, @cipher said the flange was in the position we see and a blade was tight on it when he got it. Seems strange to me, but without the saw in front of me, I could certainly be missing something. I'm sure he'll post some pictures and let us know how it goes when he puts everything back together. If the flange is moved over as much as it appears to me, the arbor might not be long enough on the other end to go through the bearing and mount the pulley (or is it a sheave? :oops:).
I just checked and the flange is over way too much from where it should be. It's on the other side of where the groves are for the retaining ring to keep one of the bearings in place. I'm not sure how that happened during my work. I tried tapping the shaft further through the flange in the correct direction (padding everything to be safe), but that flange isn't moving even a millimeter. Perhaps the vibrations from the process of grinding off the bulging side of the shaft where the pully goes caused the flange to move further down the shaft?

Either way I'll need to move that flange back over. Would a gear puller help with this?
 

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You can pound it over or press it over.
To press it over, you'll need a vertical 10 Ton press with a hole plate for the shaft to slide through.
OR a large bench vise with a pipe long enough to allow the shaft to press through to the final dimension.
Not many shop bench vises have that capacity, but a woodworker's side vise may work.
To pound in in, select a bench dog hole and a scrap of wood with a shaft size hole Then use a brass or copper hammer to pound with.
OR cover the end with a copper pipe cap and use an ball peen or stone mason's hammer.
Locate the lock ring groove and bump the flange over to a seated lock ring.
There needs to be something to keep it in the proper location..... see the manual for parts.
 
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
You can pound it over or press it over.
To press it over, you'll need a vertical 10 Ton press with a hole plate for the shaft to slide through.
OR a large bench vise with a pipe long enough to allow the shaft to press through to the final dimension.
Not many shop bench vises have that capacity, but a woodworker's side vise may work.
To pound in in, select a bench dog hole and a scrap of wood with a shaft size hole Then use a brass or copper hammer to pound with.
OR cover the end with a copper pipe cap and use an ball peen or stone mason's hammer.
Locate the lock ring groove and bump the flange over to a seated lock ring.
There needs to be something to keep it in the proper location..... see the manual for parts.
Thanks for all of the advice.

As for something to keep it in place, nothing does except for the bearing on that side. It's right up against the bearing (#43 in the manual).

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I might try the gear puller method first since that's easier and safer than pounding. If that doesn't work, I'd have to opt for pounding it since I don't own a press. I can always take it to a machinist too (and they can true it to thee shaft), but I'd rather true the flange on my own when it's mounted and spinning under its own power. Example:
 

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As for something to keep it in place, nothing does except for the bearing on that side. It's right up against the bearing (#43 in the manual).

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What is #44? Does it hold the bearing in place and that holds the flange? Or maybe snap ring #48 keeps the whole series of parts in place?

In your photo of where the flange is now there is a shallow groove between the flange and threads, looks placed to hold #44.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
What is #44? Does it hold the bearing in place and that holds the flange? Or maybe snap ring #48 keeps the whole series of parts in place?

In your photo of where the flange is now there is a shallow groove between the flange and threads, looks placed to hold #44.
#44 is the retaining ring for the bearing. Yup, that shallow groove looks like it should be where the retaining ring for the bearing should reside.
 

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EDIT - posted before seeing the last few posts.

Would a gear puller help with this?
Not sure what the back side (the side opposite of where the blade sits) looks like (tapered, etc.). If you can grab it with the jaws of a gear puller and not have them slide off, I think it would work. I'd use a 3-jaw puller (not a 2) to spread the force. Remember, you need to keep the flange perpendicular to the shaft so you don't get runout. You don't want to bend it or cock it on the shaft. Search for some threads - here or on a tool forum - that show how to check for runout if you aren't sure. Even though it doesn't want to move with what you have tried, I don't think it is going to take that much force. You seem to think you moved it, and you haven't done anything too forceful, right? Just take your time.

One last thought. If you think it might be a little loose after you get it in it's final, your are sure correct spot, some Loctite thread locker might be worth considering. While it is normally applied before fasteners are assembled, they have one that can be used after assembly. While is it made to keep bolts and nuts from coming loose, it can be used for other things. You need to be careful with this stuff though. If you think it's hard to move the flange now, you can probably forget about it after you use it. I'd call the company and talk to them first. Products
 

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@cipher

I have worked on several of these Craftsman 10 inch table saws for others and had done the same thing over tightening the blade and breaking loose or breaking clip ring completely.

I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong. then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side.

I used an old large bolt but just slid over the shaft little larger one than that one and then pulled on it.

do not pull all the actual flange as it will break.

this was the method I used because I did not have a proper press.

retighten with washers space it out till I came back in contact with retaining clip.

there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.

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since you taken the whole thing apart. as others have said paint the underside of the cast iron table a light color like white or light primer Gray.

The areas where other metal pieces like for the trunnion need the absolutely smooth. tape them and paint. after I would use the Johnson paste wax or boshield to prevent rust.

do the same with all the other metal parts that are bear now and need to be painted to last a long time. protect all the gliding surfaces and all the other places.


check the motor and to see what kind of bearings it has it may say sleeve or roller bearing. If it is sleeve bearings it should have two yellow caps at one each the end of the motor.

it is recommended to use 20 weight non detergent oil like three in one oil meant for Motors.
this is covered in the owner's manual.

this would be good time to clean the motor out without total dismantling it.

sawdust fills up inside these motors. it will starter problems. it uses a centrifugal switch to engage the start windings.

good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
I have worked on several of these Craftsman 10 inch table saws for others and had done the same thing over tightening the blade and breaking loose or breaking clip ring completely.

I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong.
Sounds good, as I'll give the gear puller a shot.

then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side. I used an old large bolt but just slid over the shaft little larger one than that one and then pulled on it.
I don't quite follow what you mean? And is the shoulder a reference to the side of the flange that presses against the blade?

do not pull all the actual flange as it will break.
EDIT: What do you mean by that? I checked and the flange only hold the gear puller at the largest part of the flange. Should I use a giant washer or piece of metal that rests up against the bottom, smaller radius of the flange to try to pull it up?

retighten with washers space it out till I came back in contact with retaining clip.

there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.
Your advice is really valuable to me, especially since you've had experience with this already. I appreciate it! I assume you're talking about the clip on the other side of the bearing in which the flange rests? There is no retaining clip between the flange and the bearing.

since you taken the whole thing apart. as others have said paint the underside of the cast iron table a light color like white or light primer Gray.

The areas where other metal pieces like for the trunnion need the absolutely smooth. tape them and paint. after I would use the Johnson paste wax or boshield to prevent rust.

do the same with all the other metal parts that are bear now and need to be painted to last a long time. protect all the gliding surfaces and all the other places.
Sounds like a good plan for the table. As for the other parts, I've already applied mineral oil. Do you recommend removing that oil and painting them (except for the smooth contact surfaces)? Also, should I avoid painting the rack gear teeth for raise/lower and tilt?

check the motor and to see what kind of bearings it has it may say sleeve or roller bearing. If it is sleeve bearings it should have two yellow caps at one each the end of the motor.

it is recommended to use 20 weight non detergent oil like three in one oil meant for Motors.
this is covered in the owner's manual.
Yup, I noticed one yellow oil plug on the motor, but not two? I'll have to check again. However I couldn't find anywhere in the manual where it talked about adding oil to the motor. In the troubleshooting steps it hinted at it and reference the maintenance and lubrication sections, but those sections don't mention adding oil to the motor at all. I have 3-in-1 set aside for that purpose. Question: how many drops should I give it? Can you overfill it?

this would be good time to clean the motor out without total dismantling it.

sawdust fills up inside these motors. it will starter problems. it uses a centrifugal switch to engage the start windings.
I already blew it out with my air compressor (I hope 120PSI didn't hurt it, since that's what I used). Plenty of sawdust blew out, so I doubt the previous owner ever cleaned it. But that owner did mentioned he only used it a few times.

good luck.
Thanks! I'll tag you here if there's something I can't figure out in the future. :)
 

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Good that you are hearing from someone who experienced your problem and how he fixed it. So I'd wait for a response from @Biotec, but here is what I got from his comments.
I don't quite follow what you mean? And is the shoulder a reference to the side of the flange that presses against the blade?
EDIT: What do you mean by that? I checked and the flange only hold the gear puller at the largest part of the flange. Should I use a giant washer or piece of metal that rests up against the bottom, smaller radius of the flange to try to pull it up?
I think he's saying don't pull on the outer diameter of the flange, you want to pull close to the shaft. I think he meant he slid a nut over the shaft (but said bolt) and pulled on that. It's what you are saying about using a washer.

I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong. then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side.

Your advice is really valuable to me, especially since you've had experience with this already. I appreciate it! I assume you're talking about the clip on the other side of the bearing in which the flange rests? There is no retaining clip between the flange and the bearing.
I'm not following him here either. It sounds like the one he worked on had the clip at the backside of the flange, where as yours is at the backside of the bearing. I'm interested in his explanation of this. I will be redoing a saw like yours, but from the mid 70s I think, later this year. I'm gathering ideas to improve it and make if more accurate and durable.

@cipher
there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.
I think it might be worth searching out these articles and maybe look for YouTube videos. Good to have as much info as possible to avoid messing up.
 

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where's my table saw?
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This is an example of a Craftsman table saw arbor showing the location of the flange on the threaded side of the arbor. It may not be the same as the saw in question?

It would make sense to have a snap ring behind the flange to keep it from moving if you tighten the arbor nut too far.
Then I would expect to find the outer bearing that sits in the trunnion.

I just checked and the flange is over way too much from where it should be. It's on the other side of where the groves are for the retaining ring to keep one of the bearings in place. I'm not sure how that happened during my work. I tried tapping the shaft further through the flange in the correct direction (padding everything to be safe), but that flange isn't moving even a millimeter. Perhaps the vibrations from the process of grinding off the bulging side of the shaft where the pully goes caused the flange to move further down the shaft?

Either way I'll need to move that flange back over. Would a gear puller help with this?
How do you think the flange got moved in the first place?
There are several ways to get it back in place as I said above., the simplest being a hole in a bench top and a dead blow hammer or a copper pipe cap on the end of the arbor.
A bench vise with the jaws opened enough to allow the shaft to slide through vertically when pounded down will also work.
Bearing pullers require 3 or 4 hands to get the jaws all oriented and a 2 jaw would work in this case and should require "gobs" of torque on the nut end.
A larger back up washer or a block of wood was suggested, a good idea.
E replacement parts parts diagram sows a e-ring. a bearing and a snap ring.
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
How do you think the flange got moved in the first place?
As I mentioned earlier, I think it might have moved on its own due to vibrations of grinding down a bulge at the end of the shaft near the key insert for the pulley. In the photo you provided from the Amazon item, that shaft looks good with it completely straight all the way to the end. I have a feeling someone pounded the pulley onto the shaft at some point (possibly when manufactured?) and bulged the metal end just enough to make removing the bearings a royal PITA.

There are several ways to get it back in place as I said above., the simplest being a hole in a bench top and a dead blow hammer or a pipe cat on the end of the arbor.
A bench vise with the jaws opened enough to allow the shaft to slide through vertically when pounded down will also work.
Bearing pullers require 3 or 4 hands to get the jaws all oriented and a 2 jaw would work in this case and should require "gobs" of torque on the nut end.
A larger back up washer or a block of wood was suggested, a good idea.
E replacement parts parts diagram sows a e-ring. a bearing and a snap ring.
View attachment 440844
All good suggestions. I'm going to try the gear puller method to bring the flange back into its correct position. I'll use a scrap piece of metal, or big washer or nut to allow the puller to clamp on to something that's putting pressure on the smaller end of the flange.

Note that the retaining clips completely surround the bearing on the right side in that photo, but there's only one retaining clip for the left side bearing, which is to the right of that bearing. The design seems to rely upon the flange to hold the shaft and left-side bearing in place.
 

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@cipher

Good afternoon all.

I humbly apologize for confusion I caused.

Of the shafts that I have worked on the flange is lightly pressed on.

the flange that start slipping when nut is tight on the shaft but the blade is still slightly loose. the clip has broken loose. this will cause galling of the flange to the shaft. do not attempt to fix that problem. use it to your advantage so it doesn't slip so easily in the future.

remember it is left hand thread and it's always trying to tighten itself. so when the blade is dull or being overworked it will turn the nut very tiny amount Each time.

When working with a shaft the key is left and thread site is right.

whether you using a puller or a press you're going to move the flange toward the threaded end past the slot about 1/8 of an inch.

if you have a lathe or access to one the next step is easier. does not matter whether it's a wood turning lathe metal lathe as long as it's got three jaw Chuck to hold the shaft. turn slowly you're going to want to square up the left edge of the slot. a fine metal saw cutting blade can be used or with patience a Dremel tool be used or a rat tail file. for any tool that can give you a nice Square Edge. if you have never done this before get old used bolt 5/8 in diameter to practice on. cutting the slot into the shoulder of the bolt.

Please try not to widen the slot width much.

retaining clip needs a square Edge to lock against. leftside key.

once you have the retaining clip back in place then walk flange it back till just snug. it is okay if the clip moves a tiny amount. turns not loose left to right. after the first couple uses of tightening the blade and loading it will Snug up tighter to the retaining clip.

note

the shaft is made of a semi soft metal and if you try hammer the flange into place it will either ruin threads at one end or the other end you'll never get to pulley on.

the bearings should be somewhat tight on the shaft.





good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
@cipher
Good afternoon all.

I humbly apologize for confusion I caused.
No problem, it all gets worked out eventually. :)

Of the shafts that I have worked on the flange is lightly pressed on.

the flange that start slipping when nut is tight on the shaft but the blade is still slightly loose. the clip has broken loose. this will cause galling of the flange to the shaft. do not attempt to fix that problem. use it to your advantage so it doesn't slip so easily in the future.

remember it is left hand thread and it's always trying to tighten itself. so when the blade is dull or being overworked it will turn the nut very tiny amount Each time.

When working with a shaft the key is left and thread site is right.
Good to know, thanks!

whether you using a puller or a press you're going to move the flange toward the threaded end past the slot about 1/8 of an inch.

if you have a lathe or access to one the next step is easier. does not matter whether it's a wood turning lathe metal lathe as long as it's got three jaw Chuck to hold the shaft. turn slowly you're going to want to square up the left edge of the slot. a fine metal saw cutting blade can be used or with patience a Dremel tool be used or a rat tail file. for any tool that can give you a nice Square Edge. if you have never done this before get old used bolt 5/8 in diameter to practice on. cutting the slot into the shoulder of the bolt.

Please try not to widen the slot width much.

retaining clip needs a square Edge to lock against. leftside key.

once you have the retaining clip back in place then walk flange it back till just snug. it is okay if the clip moves a tiny amount. turns not loose left to right. after the first couple uses of tightening the blade and loading it will Snug up tighter to the retaining clip.
I don't have a working lathe right now, but I have a friend & neighbor who's getting one. However, It does have a groove already for the retaining clip. Are you saying that moving the flange will ruin that groove?

note

the shaft is made of a semi soft metal and if you try hammer the flange into place it will either ruin threads at one end or the other end you'll never get to pulley on.

the bearings should be somewhat tight on the shaft.
Yup, the bearings are very tight. Noted on the softer metal shaft. I think that's why mine was bulging at the pulley side as someone might have pounded it. It was bulging a little before I ever tried to get the bearings off, so I had to shave it down just a little. At least the pulley still has plenty of smooth contact with the rest of the shaft to be very snug with no wobble or anything.

good luck
Thanks, I'll need it!
 
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