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Freud offers a number of different (Italian made) blades in several series, both in my area and via internet shopping. They have the Diablo series (at Home Depot in my area) the non-red coated Avanti series (at Lowe's in my area), the "Industrial" series, and some new series (the name of which escapes me for the moment) available from numerous on-line sources.

How do the Diablo and Avanti versions stack up against the Industrial and other versions? Are the Diablo series blades, for instance, just relabeled Industrial models for sale at Home Depot? Are the Avanti blades just some kind of budget line that Freud offers? (They cost as much as the Diablos, however.) Since I can go right down to Home Depot or Lowe's and pick up a blade easily, it would be nice to know if it would be better to shop on line for one of the other series models.

Incidentally, at Home Depot Ridgid also offers blades, and like the Freud versions they are made in Italy. I wonder if they come out of the same factory, with only minor differences.

Howard Ferstler
 

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Freud Blades

Hi Howard,

I am also researching saw blades at this time. Ran across a Sawmillcreek.org article in which an individual provided an update to his earlier saw blade evaluations. In his article he mentioned that the Ridgid R1060C is made by Freud in Italy "to similar standards as the as the Freud Diablo and Avanti line."

This article does not give any indication what the difference is between the Avanti and Diablo line other than the obvious red coating on the Diablo.

Here is the link to that saw blade evaluation: http:/sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61724&highlight=blade+turns

The article title is: As the saw blade turns...(chart update)

I hope the link works. You should be able to google the title.

Good luck on your blade purchase.

DaleC
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi, Dale,

I'll check it out. I have read a number of reviews dealing with Freud blades and the concensus seems to be that the industrial versions are superior to both the Diablo and Avanti versions.

I plan on getting three different blades:

1. The LU91R012 (72 tooth) for my Ridgid 12-inch sliding miter saw.
2. The LU87R010 (24 tooth) for my small Ryobi BTS20 jobsite table saw.
3. The D0724X (24 tooth) for my Skill Mag77 circular saw.

All three have received exemplary reviews on the Amazon sales web site. On the other hand, reviews I have read of the Diablo and Avanti versions are not all that positive. Some have been downright critical, so I can assume that they are not rebadged (for sale at Home Depot and Lowe's) versions of the industrial line.

While the Forrest blade line seems to be the top contender for quality blades, they are overkill (and overpriced) for my needs. The Freud industrial blades are considerably cheaper and have quality that is quite good.

Howard Ferstler
 

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The Diablo's are probable the best all around blade for my side winders. They cut like butter and hold an edge longer than the Dewalt and Irwin I used to use. Lets face it though these blades are definately throwaways as it is just as cheap to replace rather than sharpen.

I'm actually considering switching the table saw and Miter saw blades to something in the freud line when its time so let me know what you think.
 

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I have a Blac and Decker 160mm circular saw. Supplied with 8 toothed tct blade that cut well but left rough edge. I bought a Bosch 36 tct tooth blade which cuts leaving a polish. Most of my cuts are cross cuts.
johnep
 

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I plan on getting three different blades:

1. The LU91R012 (72 tooth) for my Ridgid 12-inch sliding miter saw.
2. The LU87R010 (24 tooth) for my small Ryobi BTS20 jobsite table saw.
3. The D0724X (24 tooth) for my Skill Mag77 circular saw.

Howard Ferstler

Looking at your select of blades IMO you are picking a coarse cut for the tool you described. If you research what you will be using the blade to cut, and pick the correct tooth count, either positive or negative hook, and tooth design, will be more effective when looking at just brands. It's more of a complete assessment in making a decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree that features are more important than brands - to a point. From what I gather, features notwithstanding, some brands are definitely better than others. The trick for me is to get a brand that delivers maximum bang for the buck.

Howard Ferstler
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The Diablo's are probable the best all around blade for my side winders. They cut like butter and hold an edge longer than the Dewalt and Irwin I used to use. Lets face it though these blades are definately throwaways as it is just as cheap to replace rather than sharpen.

I'm actually considering switching the table saw and Miter saw blades to something in the freud line when its time so let me know what you think.
I assume you saw the items I was considering, and those would be my recommendation, given what I know at this time. The 7.25-inch blade I listed was a Diablo, but the other two were the industrial models. Those cost about the same on Amazon as the Diablo versions do at Home Depot.

All three of the products I listed received good customer reviews on the Amazon site. If your miter saw is not a 12 incher like mine, you would possibly opt for the 10-inch version of the blade I chose. That particular blade has a negative hook, which supposedly makes it more stable for use on a miter saw than a blade with a positive hook.

I have a Skill sidewinder in addition to my worm-drive Skil Mag77. My biggest problem with most sidewinders is the right-side blade location. I really prefer the left side, which the Mag77 employs.

Howard Ferstler
 

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...How do the Diablo and Avanti versions stack up against the Industrial and other versions?
The Diablo and Avanti lines are made to similar standards, but are typically not sold at the some retail outlets and are aimed at different markets. The Diablo is aimed more at the construction market and the Avanti at the DIYers. The Industrial line is a step up the ladder...tighter tolerances, finer edge, larger teeth, and far larger selection for specific tasks...they tend to market them to the more demanding woodworking and professional market. The Industrial line tends to have a higher retail price, but they go on sale often at places like Amazon for around the same price as the Diablo or Avanti, which typically makes the Industrial line a better value IMO, if you can wait for a sale to buy. Freud also has an elite "Premier" line that currently includes only the new P410 Fusion AFAIK.

Freud makes the Ridgid Titanium line. They don't give up their trade secrets readily, but based on tooth size, selection, design, and pricing, it appears to me that they're made comparably to the Diablo and Avanti lines. They don't go on sale often, so the Industrial line still holds the value advantage over this line as well IMO.

Any Freud blades that I've tried have given good results, but I lean heavily toward the Industrial series whenever possible for the reasons stated above. I'd expect the best long term performance from the Industrial or Premier series.

Here's an example of pricing on some 60T blades from Freud:
  • Ridgid R1060C - $49.97 only at HD (free s/h over $49)
  • Diablo D1060X - $39.97 at Amazon (free s/h over $25)
  • Avanti TK406 - $34.99 at Amazon (free s/h over $25)
  • Industrial LU88R010 - $44.99 at Amazon (free s/h over $25)
The LU88 is a pretty good buy at $45 shipped, but it'll go on sale in the $36-$39 range occasionally, making it not only the better performer of this group, but also best buy IMHO.

Regarding brands: Some are better than others for sure, but many of the bigger names make multiple lines with varying quality levels, so it gets really tricky to categorize quality by brand name alone. Freud tends to be pretty strong across the board, though some lines offer a higher level. Forrest, Infinity, and Ridge Carbide make only top shelf blades. Brands like Skil, Ryobi, and B&D tend to be cheaper entry level products. Others like Oldham (no longer viable), Irwin, DeWalt, and Delta have quality levels that are all over the map....the Irwin Sprint and Marathon are what I'd consider average Asian made blades with lower grade tiny carbide teeth and stamped bodies, whereas their former Woodworking series was German made, high quality, laser cut, high precision blades made by Leitz...good stuff! DeWalt and Delta are now under the same umbrella and are in a state of flux....DW formerly offered a construction line (Series 20) that's also unimpressive, but their Series 40 and Series 60 blades were high precision British made blades that were quite good. The DW line is changing....the Series 40 appears to be changing into the new "Precision Trim" or "PT" line with the bright yellow coating. The Series 60 is either being phased out, or will parallel the new Delta Industrial line (formerly made by Leitz)....Delta now has many of their top blades using the prefix "35" followed by the former DW Series 60 4-digit suffix - ie: Delta 35-7657 is the same as the former DW7657 (40T high end general purpose blade aimed at the Forrest WWII).

If you're not sure of the quality level of a given blade, a gross rule of thumb might be to check the size of the carbide and how the body is made. Large carbide doesn't insure high quality, but it's an indicator of a willingness to spend a bit more which usually signals an attempt at high quality. As is a laser cut body ...most easily spotted by the fine cuts in the anti-noise/anti-vibration slots. Thick slots tend to signify a cheaper process of stamping the body. If the manufacture states "C3" or "C4" carbide, that's also an indicator of an attempt at quality...C2 carbide is a cheaper less desirable grade for blades and often not mentioned. Another possible indicator is the number of specialized choices available....Skil and B&D don't cater to the industrial world and have a much more limited selection than Freud, Systimatic, or Tenryu. You can often check the country origin for hints...any country in the world is capable of making a high precision blade, but manufacturers are willing to pay extra for the quality from the US, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan, Israel, or England, etc. Some Chinese blades are quite good, but the move to China is usually based on a economics first, and quality second.

Check out the contrast in these two blades from the same manufacturer:
irwinyuck.jpg web5333big.jpg

My 2 cents (plus inflation ;))

Here's a live link to "As the saw blade turns"
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The Diablo and Avanti lines are made to similar standards, but are typically not sold at the some retail outlets and are aimed at different markets. The Diablo is aimed more at the construction market and the Avanti at the DIYers. The Industrial line is a step up the ladder...tighter tolerances, finer edge, larger teeth, and far larger selection for specific tasks...they tend to market them to the more demanding woodworking and professional market. The Industrial line tends to have a higher retail price, but they go on sale often at places like Amazon for around the same price as the Diablo or Avanti, which typically makes the Industrial line a better value IMO, if you can wait for a sale to buy. Freud also has an elite "Premier" line that currently includes only the new P410 Fusion AFAIK.

Freud makes the Ridgid Titanium line. They don't give up their trade secrets readily, but based on tooth size, selection, design, and pricing, it appears to me that they're made comparably to the Diablo and Avanti lines. They don't go on sale often, so the Industrial line still holds the value advantage over this line as well IMO.

Any Freud blades that I've tried have given good results, but I lean heavily toward the Industrial series whenever possible for the reasons stated above. I'd expect the best long term performance from the Industrial or Premier series.....

(snips to save space

My 2 cents (plus inflation ;))

Here's a live link to "As the saw blade turns"
Many, many thanks for the happily detailed information about blades, including the reference to that interesting comparison site. I had already seen it before, but it was educational to look at it again.

I have received the 12-inch miter blade I mentioned earlier in this thread, as well as the 10 incher for my table saw. (The 7.25-inch circular saw blade is in route.) I have not done any "work" with them, but I did do a few test cuts. The miter blade was particularly impressive, with its workable -5 degree tooth-hook angle.

One interesting thing is that the Industrial blades had technical data printed on them (kerf width, bevel angle, tooth-hook angle), whereas there is no information of that kind printed on the Diablo versions.

All of the blades were ordered from Amazon, and so I got good prices.

Howard Ferstler
 

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You're very welcome Howard. If you didn't notice when you ordered, Amazon has new promotion code..."BLDPROMO"should get you 20% off many blades. If you didn't use it earlier, you may be able to call and have it applied, or reorder and cancel the original.

Good luck!
 

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"Some Chinese blades are quite good, but the move to China is usually based on a economics first, and quality second."


I 'spose they are...just dont eat 'em!!!:laughing:
 

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"Some Chinese blades are quite good, but the move to China is usually based on a economics first, and quality second."


I 'spose they are...just dont eat 'em!!!:laughing:
That's some wise advice! And to think....all this time I've been trying to keep them from eating me! :eek: :laughing:
 
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