Woodworking Talk banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,644 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For many years, I have stained my projects and then applied Deft Clear Wood Finish (sprayed).

These days, I have to set up in the yard to do my spraying.
What I like about Deft is it dries fast. I usually set my timer for 45 -60 minutes and spray another light coat.

Fast forward to this coming year. We are planning to replace our kitchen cabinets. Since I am working in a tight place (one car garage), I plan to build face frames, then build the boxes and assemble. I plan to use the prefinished plywood for the boxes and hard maple for the doors, face frames and drawers.

For you kitchen cabinet guys, what do you use for the finish? I don't want to spray with the cabinets installed so I will be doing my spraying outside (weather permitting).

I have never used the polyurethane but when I read the label on the can in the store, it says it is fast drying. Really? How fast is fast?

Your thoughts and advice appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Some disclaimers: I'm not a cabinet guy, just a hobbyist. I also a dyed in the wool oil based finish guy. That said, I'm contemplating building cabinets for our kitchen, and if I do I'll be using a waterborne finish. Even fast drying oil finishes are a little slow.....the ones I would pick (non poly varnish) even more so. The waterbornes still aren't quite as durable as the oil based (according to Flexner) they have come a long way. The convenience they offer outweigh the slight negative. A downside to consider is the temp must be warmer for them to dry, and mostly they are water-clear, so you don't get the warming effect you might from an oil based. Just plan accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,644 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks For the help.

@Cabinetman - I like the drying time you quoted. I usually have pretty good weather to do the finishing outside. Typically, I will spray several coats, then lightly sand the piece with 400-600 grit sandpaper. Then apply one or two more coats. Projects turn out nice, I also have a pop up canopy that I put up to work under.

@Fred - I am going to use some of the methods described in the videos produced by Kris Reynolds.
I have the tools and some of the skill required. :)

What brand should I consider? MinWax is readily available at the local big box stores. I also have a Sherwin Williams store nearby.

I will do some test pieces and see how they turn out.

Thanks
Mike
 

·
Old School
Joined
·
24,017 Posts
What brand should I consider? MinWax is readily available at the local big box stores. I also have a Sherwin Williams store nearby.

I will do some test pieces and see how they turn out.

Thanks
Mike
You can use Parks Pro Finisher waterbase polyurethane. It's sold at HD, and is tough enough for flooring. Much better than MinWax.






.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
I avoid any Minwax products. I'd probably go with Target Coating EM6000, or maybe the General Finishes HP. I've never used it, but have so much good about it I'd like to try it. Or try that stuff C'man suggested, I've not used it either but would bow to his experience with it. Any of the waterbornes can be tinted with Transtint dye f you want to give them some color.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,644 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You can use Parks Pro Finisher waterbase polyurethane. It's sold at HD, and is tough enough for flooring. Much better than MinWax.






.
The time is drawing near. I bought some of this stuff and plan to try it out on a few samples.

Mike, can it be sprayed with a HVLP gun?

The wood we are using is knotty alder stained with General Finishes Colonial Maple gel stain and accented with Van **** glaze.

Thanks.
Mike
 

·
Old School
Joined
·
24,017 Posts
The time is drawing near. I bought some of this stuff and plan to try it out on a few samples.

Mike, can it be sprayed with a HVLP gun?


Thanks.
Mike
It can be sprayed with an HVLP gun. I've done it but prefer to use a siphon gun. With HVLP you don't see the output and it's difficult to judge how much material is being sprayed.






.
 

·
Renaissance dude
Joined
·
19 Posts
You can use Parks Pro Finisher waterbase polyurethane. It's sold at HD, and is tough enough for flooring. Much better than MinWax.






.
That's good to know. The Minwax is better than nothing for many things but clearly it's not top of the line, and definitely not hard enough for floors. Benjamin Moore has a nice water based poly rated for floors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Actually, I did a restaurant bus cabinet 18 years ago which gets a lot of hard use. It had 3 coats of Minwax polyurethane. The only place the finish has any problems is where people have dragged the bus tubs across the shelf edge and it wore through the finish. That's it, after 18 years it still looks good. So I don't know what these guys are talking about with regards to Minwax poly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
Most of the bigger name Kitchen cabinet makers use Conversion Varnish which is an industrial precat lacquer. It can take a lot of abuse. Very easy to apply, you spray it just like any other lacquer, and you can use an HVLP gun with no problems.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20 Posts
Most of the bigger name Kitchen cabinet makers use Conversion Varnish which is an industrial precat lacquer. It can take a lot of abuse. Very easy to apply, you spray it just like any other lacquer, and you can use an HVLP gun with no problems.
What is conversion varnish? I've never seen any in the stores. How is it different than regular varnish?
 

·
Old School
Joined
·
24,017 Posts
Most of the bigger name Kitchen cabinet makers use Conversion Varnish which is an industrial precat lacquer. It can take a lot of abuse. Very easy to apply, you spray it just like any other lacquer, and you can use an HVLP gun with no problems.
There's a reason why it's used primarily by professional finishers. It's difficult to use properly, especially by a DIY'er in his garage, with minimal equipment and experience. There are much easier finishes that can be used.







.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
What is conversion varnish? I've never seen any in the stores. How is it different than regular varnish?
Water White Conversion Varnish is a catalyzed wood finishing system providing water white color and good resistance to yellowing. It is recommended for use over white “pickled” and
light color stains where good resistance to yellowing is required, but is regularing recommened due to its adhesion and wear and tear properties. This is great to use on any kitchen cabinets. I use SW's Conversion Varnish and it works great. Easy to apply.


Mix ratio:
1 part Conversion Varnish (V84F83 dull rub is what I use quite often)
3% Catalyst (V66V21 is what is used in the CV in my example)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
There's a reason why it's used primarily by professional finishers. It's difficult to use properly, especially by a DIY'er in his garage, with minimal equipment and experience. There are much easier finishes that can be used.











.
If he has an HVLP gun, it shouldnt be a problem for him, even in a garage. I use it all the time. Simple to use. Here is what I do:

Finishing System:
1. Sealer—Catalyze and reduce Varnish as a sealer with thinner if you want, OR you can spray full strenght. Spray a full wet coat. Air dry 30 minutes.
2. Sand with 220-280 grit paper, remove sanding dust.
3. Topcoat— Catalyze with Water White Conversion Varnish as a topcoat. For more depth apply a second coat.
4. Allow overnight dry before packing or stacking. Force drying may be used.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,543 Posts
I agree with RandyReed. The conversion varnish is very easy to use and extremely durable. I've sprayed with both a HVLP and Airless sprayer.

Only hard part is adding the catalyst and if you purchase a cheap digital kitchen scale even that becomes easy. It allows you to mix whatever amount you need with little to no waste.

His instructions to application technique are spot on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
I agree with RandyReed. The conversion varnish is very easy to use and extremely durable. I've sprayed with both a HVLP and Airless sprayer.

Only hard part is adding the catalyst and if you purchase a cheap digital kitchen scale even that becomes easy. It allows you to mix whatever amount you need with little to no waste.

His instructions to application technique are spot on.
I use a 800ml graduate. For example, I would measure out 600ml of CV, then I have a 10ml syringe that I use and I measure out 18ML of catalyst. Stir it for about 1 minute, pour it in my gun and go to town. Sometimes I even add 5% of Butyl Acetate to improve the flow. Like I said, pretty simple to use.

Combine that with an HVLP gravity feed gun and your in you will think you won the lottery. :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,543 Posts
I use a 800ml graduate. For example, I would measure out 600ml of CV, then I have a 10ml syringe that I use and I measure out 18ML of catalyst. Stir it for about 1 minute, pour it in my gun and go to town. Sometimes I even add 5% of Butyl Acetate to improve the flow. Like I said, pretty simple to use.

Combine that with an HVLP gravity feed gun and your in you will think you won the lottery. :laughing:
I thought about going that route but the kitchen scale seemed to be easier. I use disposable liners for my HVLP so I can just set it on the scale, zero it out, pour in my CV then the amount of catalyst I need.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top