Easiest way to make a mortise

2054 Views 62 Replies 20 Participants Last post by LilMtnDave, 2 mo ago

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Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

I’m trying to advance my woodworking skills and watching lots of Norm Abram and others on YouTube. I want to start making mortises. Would it be easier for me to buy a drill press attachment or learn to do them with a plunge router. Seems like it would be a hassle to have to take the drill press jig off every time I want a regular drill press. And I already own a plunge router. Seems like a no brained but I figured I,d get some opinions

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Jar944_2

· #41 · 2 mo ago

LilMtnDave said:
As with the Sawstop, I will be waiting for the Festool Domino's patent to run its course...

They will be cheaper, but like track saws that are as good as the original festool they won't be that much cheaper. There is a lot of tight tolerances needed with the domino for it to work as expected and any slop in them will end up with lots of unsatisfied off brand owners. I'd likely buy a makita domino but I'd expect it would cost 75% of a festool.

B Coll

· #42 · 2 mo ago

Domino's look pretty cool for small projects, or even light production of smaller projects. I used to make a lot of entry and passage doors and the stock size tenon I liked to make was 3-1/2" x 5" x 1/2". Bottom rail gets 2, mid rail 1-2, top rail 1, and mid stile 1. Would not consider using tenons smaller than that for a door.

Rebelwork

· #43 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Making entry doors is a whole different animal.

It does heavy production. I used it on 700 bar stools for a major restaurant branch. . Court house benches , etc..

Making templates, my helper made 10 barstools a day… If we charged $85 a bar stool and payed a non skill woodworker $15 an hour, the Domino is a great productive tool..So if one non skilled assembled and another non skilled ran the shapers at $30 for 2 guys times one day $240. Bars stool sold for $850.. This would be if he drug it out..

LilMtnDave

· #44 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Rebelwork said:
Sawstop has been out since 2000. you gonna wait awhile..

Most people looking for a Domino are wanting an easy out on woodworking Like a pocket hole..

That means at least some of their patents expired in 2021...I have heard that some extensions may push it to 2026....but god knows Bosch is probably champing at the bit. I bet we see someone come out with a similar braking system within a couple years or Bosch will re-introduce. The price will be halved. by 2026. Yeah, me, all my fingers, and my 20yo Craftsman can wait.

LilMtnDave

· #45 · 2 mo ago

Jar944_2 said:
They will be cheaper, but like track saws that are as good as the original festool they won't be that much cheaper. There is a lot of tight tolerances needed with the domino for it to work as expected and any slop in them will end up with lots of unsatisfied off brand owners. I'd likely buy a makita domino but I'd expect it would cost 75% of a festool.

Yeah...who knows. The video points out that the first oscillating multi-tool cost like $600...now you can pick one up for <$30 and would be hardpressed to pay more that $150. I do not begrudge Festool or Sawstop from making the most out of their products...they are just not going to make it from me. (and they do not expect to...I build for myself...if I was in some sort of production environment my purchasing decisions may change)

Rebelwork

· #46 · 2 mo ago

I don’t think with prices increasing since Covid everybody will be jumping on a Bosch deal. The prices will be comparable, but I doubt there will be any major decreases on price..

Personally I don’t think the price of Sawstop is that bad,.

Reactions: 1

BigCountry79

· #47 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

I was about to say the same thing... the sawstop is fairly close tp the correct price point even with the safety features. Harvey and Laguna have cheaper offerings but they are lower quality. The 3hp grizzly is on par, and about 25% cheaper.

Checked...
3hp 52" PCS $3675
3hp 52" G0651 $2870

Derek Cohen

· #48 · 2 mo ago

Rebelwork said:
You can plunge a Domino as much as you want. Move it where you want. You can mortise after the fact with a Domino..

Now I prefer M&T, but don’t count a Domino out. As long as Dominos are $1000+, you won’t see many

Yes to all. My preference is M&T, but I may still use the Domino to create the mortice. Mostly use either a hand saw or the bandsaw for tenons. An integrated tenon is always going to be stronger than a loose tenon.

Regards from Perth

Derek

DrRobert

· #49 · 2 mo ago

Derek Cohen said:
An integrated tenon is always going to be stronger than a loose tenon.

Derek, would you explain why?

B Coll

· #50 · 2 mo ago

DrRobert said:
Everyone should try a mortise by hand. It’s not as difficult as you may think, and doesn’t take that long. If you only have a couple to do, it’s quicker than setting up a router. Maybe not a mortiser, but you may not have one.

You don’t need a pig sticker (mortise chisel) to do them, either. As Paul Sellers demonstrated, any old chisel, even an old beater will work.

Interesting that the mortise chisel took about 5 minutes, bevel edge chisel only about 3 minutes. He also brings up an good point that the long bevel of a mortise chisel actually presents some issues in a shallower mortise.

Anyway, @B Coll reminded me dont forget hand work! I thought it was worth bringing up the video for those interested.

Good video DrRobert, thanks for posting it. The same goes for dovetails. I was taught, and had to learn how to lay out and cut dovetails by hand. Today, more often than not, I use an Omnijig. If I only have one or two drawers or a small box to do I will still do it by hand as it can be just as quick as setting up the jig and routers. But moreso to keep the skills sharp and pure enjoyment and satifaction.

DrRobert

· #51 · 2 mo ago

There are some nifty tricks like using a dado bit to level to depth, bearing rides on pins.

Or tails on a table saw using a rip blade custom ground to 7°.

If you practice they don’t take that long, agree for one or two it’s often quicker bynhand than setting up a machine and doing test cuts. The issue for a lot of people is they are 100% machines and either averse to or have never developed any hand tool skills. Unfortunately they are missing out on a very satisfying part of this craft. 😁

Derek Cohen

· #52 · 2 mo ago

2

Joinery is something I take seriously. Dovetails are different from mortice and tenons by virtue of dovetails being visible (and a design statement) and M&T being invisible. Therefor dovetails are only hand cut, while M&T may be made in the most expedient manner (hand cut or machine), but always with an eye to strength.

Dr R, I think that you were referring to my comment about integrated vs loose tenons. It has to do with what is required for the length of the base a loose tenon. My understanding is that this needs to be 1 1/2 time longer than a tenon cheek. That is not easy to rout out. In practice, I make the base the same length as the cheek. I cannot say that it is weaker, but then I tend to work with hard hardwoods.

I built my kitchen out of curly hard maple several years ago, and purchased a Domino specifically for this. I regretted using it almost immediately. It worked out okay, not great. The frames were strengthened by the panels, but alone it was possible to create some twist in the joints. The dominos were simply narrower than if I had made tenons. Some years went by before I began using the Domino again, and now it is used to excavate mortices as if it were a router (see my earlier post).

Part of the kitchen ...

With dovetails, you cannot do this (curved apothecary chest) with a machine ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Rebelwork

· #53 · 2 mo ago

personally I see no gain to using a Domino on kitchen cabinets.

Derek Cohen

· #54 · 2 mo ago

Well, kitchens come and go. Unlike quality furniture, they are replaceable. Fashion statements if you allow the wife to dictate priorities

(sorry about that!). I was looking for a quicker way of construction. Also an excuse to buy another tool

Regards from Perth

Derek

Rebelwork

· #55 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Kitchen cabinets and furniture are similiar. A lot of people want a change with the times.

Domino has its place,M&T is better router is in there some where..

Dominos replaced M&T with speed, but not for every application..

My cabinets are M&T, but this shop has probably went to pocket holes since 1999 to keep prices down. This shop does offer 13” uppers and 5/4 doors on the non-builder sets. I had actually considered talking to Brandon about a part time job this summer..

LilMtnDave

· #56 · 2 mo ago

BigCountry79 said:
I was about to say the same thing... the sawstop is fairly close tp the correct price point even with the safety features. Harvey and Laguna have cheaper offerings but they are lower quality. The 3hp grizzly is on par, and about 25% cheaper.

Checked...
3hp 52" PCS $3675
3hp 52" G0651 $2870

I watched Rob Cosmans review months ago of the Sawstop and he sold me on its abilities. (6 year old video) He was impressed with the safety technology but not infatuated with it. That said, he was sold on them while seeing them demo it with a completely blind operator. He did have some negatives...but off the top of my head I cannot remember them. Oh wait, one was that the throat plate was too bouncy. In the end he thought it the BEST. I have watched a number of other videos also and have yet to see one where a Sawstop owner did not think they were worth the price. What were the odds? To be honest, all of the safety, guilt trip attempts to validate their purchase really turned me off. I think Sawstop has already started to succumb to pricing heat by their introduction of their $1000 compact saw although I read somewhere that they have a price increase happening in May. Oh and Rob Cosman probably does not really have to worry about cost.

Marketing and competition can be a fickle thing. 25% is actually kind of a huge difference. I am looking to retire in 2-4 years and at that point I will make a decision on where I go with woodworking. Right now it is a hobby and a way to save some money as I build things for my own use. As a hobbyist, I am hardpressed to spend $3700 on a table saw when my current one has done everything I have asked of it for 20+ years and originally about $400.(without accident).

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DrRobert

· #57 · 2 mo ago

Derek Cohen said:
Dr R, I think that you were referring to my comment about integrated vs loose tenons. It has to do with what is required for the length of the base a loose tenon. My understanding is that this needs to be 1 1/2 time longer than a tenon cheek. That is not easy to rout out. In practice, I make the base the same length as the cheek. I cannot say that it is weaker, but then I tend to work with hard hardwoods.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Still not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you referring to limited depth of a router bit?

Rebelwork

· #58 · 2 mo ago

The Sawstop is a good saw.. I feel the DC is lacking and the over blade DC is useless.. Keep it cleaned out and it should be fine.

Derek Cohen

· #59 · 2 mo ago

Still not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you referring to limited depth of a router bit?

Yes, how safe is a router bit of 1" depth and greater?

Regards from Perth

Derek

woodnthings

· #60 · 2 mo ago

Derek Cohen said:
Yes, how safe is a router bit of 1" depth and greater?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Router bits will break when excessive feeding force is used. A 1" depth of cut is perfectly reasonable. Either a 1/4" shank or 1/2" shank will be fine.
Longer bits will require 1/2" diameter shanks to help prevent breakage.
Keep on mind that the small diameter bits are spinning at 20,000 RPMs to equal the cutting surface feet per minute as 10" table saws spinning at 4,000 RPM.

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