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Searched all over, but I can't find the answer to this... what the heck is a "hybrid" table saw? What makes it a "hybrid"?
Thanks...
Thanks...
Dumb question... what the heck is a "hybrid"?
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From what I have read in another post, a contractor saw with the motor inside. Or a light duty cabinet saw. Check out this link, it gives you more details.http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1492&articleID=501503
Not a dumb question! A hybrid TS is essentially a full size cast iron home-shop duty "contractor" saw with the motor moved inside the cabinet. They have roughly the same hp...under 2hp so it'll run on a standard 110v circuit, same size table surface (27"d x 40" with wings), standard miter slots so aftermarket accessories fit, etc. It's an evolution of the 60 year old contractor saw design...contractor saws are no longer used primarily as a portable on the jobsite which is what they were designed for...the portable jobsite saws have replaced them, so the "contractor" saw is used mainly as a homeshop saw, where there's no longer a need to have the motor mounted externally for easy removal. Bringing the motor inside the cabinet offers alot of advantages, and nearly no disadvantage unless you need to remove the motor often for portability.
Here's a Wikipedia explanation.
Here's an excerpt from a previous discussion here where I try to explain the advantages:
"Your description of the hybrid is an oversimplification that overlooks a few of the physics issues. I agree that hybrids are not and will not compete head to head with a full blown industrial grade 3hp cabinet saw....those saws are more robust all the way around and offer every design and construction advantage, but they do require 220v, and start at ~ $1k new vs $400 (used is obviously a variable). However, the hybrids offer many advantages over the traditional contractor saw design...bringing the motor inside the cabinet offers many advantages. For starters, it shortens the belt significantly, which reduces vibration and increases power transfer efficiency. Most of the hybrids utilize a poly-v serpentine style belt as opposed to the traditional v-belt, which again increases power transfer efficiency...in a nutshell they get a bit more umph at the blade from roughly the same size motor. You've already pointed to the safety advantage...the location of the belt on a contractor is outside the enclosure adds some additional risk even with guards in place, and alot more risk with them removed. Dust collection is obviously superior in an enclosure.
When a saw motor is tilted, it raises up in an arc that also increases it's vertical height. The outboard motor poses some risk of hitting or lifting anything in it's path....it's avoidable with caution, but it happens to many of us, and when it does, it often knocks the alignment of the saw out. The location of that outboard motor also creates a fair amount of leverage force because of how it cantilevers off the back. Saws with connecting rods are far more likely to rack or twist with the motor cantilevered off the back than they are when tucked inside, and even those with a one-piece carriage are still exposed to additional torque from the increased leverage. There's also a not-so-small issue of space. The hybrids simply have a smaller footprint which is desirable in many small shops. The Orion-made Steel City and Craftsman hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions that no contractor saw offers....they're significantly easier to align, and add significant mass. There's often some additional mass with the fuller enclosure too, and some increased stability.
Unless you need to remove the outboard motor often for transport or storage, just about every advantage I can think of goes to the hybrid design. The motors are virtually all TEFC now, so dust exposure is not an issue. Even the retail prices are evening up with a lot of overlap. As far as I can tell, every contractor saw with an outboard motor, would undergo some improvement if the motor were moved inside the cabinet. To back that statement, I'll point out that every major player except for Ridgid is currently offering at least one hybrid, and many have several. (Delta, Jet, Steel City, Shop Fox, Grizzly, Craftsman, Sunhill, Woodtek, General International, DeWalt, and Hitachi come to mind). It appears to me that the hybrid's time has come, and for good reason. Sentimental attachments to our existing saws aside, I'm open for rebuttals, discussion, and am even curious if I've missed any design virtues that a traditional contractor saw may offer over a hybrid. Thoughts anyone?"
Here's a Wikipedia explanation.
Here's an excerpt from a previous discussion here where I try to explain the advantages:
"Your description of the hybrid is an oversimplification that overlooks a few of the physics issues. I agree that hybrids are not and will not compete head to head with a full blown industrial grade 3hp cabinet saw....those saws are more robust all the way around and offer every design and construction advantage, but they do require 220v, and start at ~ $1k new vs $400 (used is obviously a variable). However, the hybrids offer many advantages over the traditional contractor saw design...bringing the motor inside the cabinet offers many advantages. For starters, it shortens the belt significantly, which reduces vibration and increases power transfer efficiency. Most of the hybrids utilize a poly-v serpentine style belt as opposed to the traditional v-belt, which again increases power transfer efficiency...in a nutshell they get a bit more umph at the blade from roughly the same size motor. You've already pointed to the safety advantage...the location of the belt on a contractor is outside the enclosure adds some additional risk even with guards in place, and alot more risk with them removed. Dust collection is obviously superior in an enclosure.
When a saw motor is tilted, it raises up in an arc that also increases it's vertical height. The outboard motor poses some risk of hitting or lifting anything in it's path....it's avoidable with caution, but it happens to many of us, and when it does, it often knocks the alignment of the saw out. The location of that outboard motor also creates a fair amount of leverage force because of how it cantilevers off the back. Saws with connecting rods are far more likely to rack or twist with the motor cantilevered off the back than they are when tucked inside, and even those with a one-piece carriage are still exposed to additional torque from the increased leverage. There's also a not-so-small issue of space. The hybrids simply have a smaller footprint which is desirable in many small shops. The Orion-made Steel City and Craftsman hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions that no contractor saw offers....they're significantly easier to align, and add significant mass. There's often some additional mass with the fuller enclosure too, and some increased stability.
Unless you need to remove the outboard motor often for transport or storage, just about every advantage I can think of goes to the hybrid design. The motors are virtually all TEFC now, so dust exposure is not an issue. Even the retail prices are evening up with a lot of overlap. As far as I can tell, every contractor saw with an outboard motor, would undergo some improvement if the motor were moved inside the cabinet. To back that statement, I'll point out that every major player except for Ridgid is currently offering at least one hybrid, and many have several. (Delta, Jet, Steel City, Shop Fox, Grizzly, Craftsman, Sunhill, Woodtek, General International, DeWalt, and Hitachi come to mind). It appears to me that the hybrid's time has come, and for good reason. Sentimental attachments to our existing saws aside, I'm open for rebuttals, discussion, and am even curious if I've missed any design virtues that a traditional contractor saw may offer over a hybrid. Thoughts anyone?"
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Wow, excellent... thanks for the replies, that's why I dig this forum... question answered. (I think.... :laughing
My best guess prior to posting would've been that it's a TS that sits somewhere between a portable contractor-grade and a heavy shop-dedicated cabinet, seems like I'm on the right track.
Let's whittle it down... that Jet TS that's on $399 closeout right now... would that be considered a hybrid?
It's got a stand instead of a cabinet, but the thing is so freakin' heavy, I can't imagine someone hauling the thing around to jobsites.
I don't mean to beat a perfectly good dead horse, just looking for some clarification.
Thankya! :thumbsup:
My best guess prior to posting would've been that it's a TS that sits somewhere between a portable contractor-grade and a heavy shop-dedicated cabinet, seems like I'm on the right track.
Let's whittle it down... that Jet TS that's on $399 closeout right now... would that be considered a hybrid?
It's got a stand instead of a cabinet, but the thing is so freakin' heavy, I can't imagine someone hauling the thing around to jobsites.
I don't mean to beat a perfectly good dead horse, just looking for some clarification.
Thankya! :thumbsup:
The Jet from Rockler that's being closed out for $399 is a conventional contractor saw with an outboard motor. There is a newer 708100 "hybrid" that sells in the $400-$500 range....it still has an open leg stand in this case, and the actually call it a "contractor" saw, but the motor is enclosed, and therefore enjoys the advantages associated with it.Wow, excellent... thanks for the replies, that's why I dig this forum... question answered. (I think.... :laughing
My best guess prior to posting would've been that it's a TS that sits somewhere between a portable contractor-grade and a heavy shop-dedicated cabinet, seems like I'm on the right track.
Let's whittle it down... that Jet TS that's on $399 closeout right now... would that be considered a hybrid?
It's got a stand instead of a cabinet, but the thing is so freakin' heavy, I can't imagine someone hauling the thing around to jobsites.
I don't mean to beat a perfectly good dead horse, just looking for some clarification.
Thankya! :thumbsup:
In this case, the $399 Rockler deal is for a contractor saw with cast iron wings, which is a really nice to have feature, even if it doesn't benefit from indoor plumbing...
The 708100 WorkShop saw "hybrid" has steel wings. Both good saws with different pros/cons....your pick.
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OK, here we go... I'm snowed in right now so I've got nuthin' better to do except ask questions and sip an adult beverage or six. :laughing:
What do you mean by "outboard"? I've got an outboard on my pontoon, so I'm not totally clueless, but my recollection is that the Jet's motor is tucked up inside and underneath.
Are we taking about belt-drive vs. direct drive?
What do you mean by "outboard"? I've got an outboard on my pontoon, so I'm not totally clueless, but my recollection is that the Jet's motor is tucked up inside and underneath.
Are we taking about belt-drive vs. direct drive?
Hey beertender...nuther round for my frenz. :huh:
Both have belt drive induction motors, but as far as I know, the Rockler contractor saw for $399 has the motor hanging out the back. The 708100 that I mentioned has the motor tucked inside the cabinet, which by my definitions, makes it a hybrid.
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148 Posts
Comprendo, and bartender, get this man what he wants to drink, immediately please.... :blink:
I have to say that I didn't look behind that TS when I checked it out. I'll be going back to look again in the next couple days.
It's the damndest thing...I could use it, you can see my comments about the Craftsman POS TS that I bought a few months ago, but at the same time, there's about 20 things I could drop $400 on or throw $400 toward.
I guess it's nice to have these issues.
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas, folks... might be a little hell to pay in 2008, but we always land on our feet.
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