[builtinbkyn2]

I think I see what you’re saying, but seems to me it would be better to have the hole centered exactly on a pegboard hole.

Thinking about it, the way to do it would be to install a 1/4” bit, turn the router upside down, drill a 1/4” hole in the accessory base, place on router base with the bit through a hole, and use double stick tape to attach to base. Drilling holes to match base would be a bit tricky. Then a piece of peg board and drill 4 dowel pin holes. This is basically what the Woodrave jig is. Unfortunately it’s no longer available. The advantage going you can create as big a template as you want, rather than be restricted like the Rockler, Domifix, etc.

What I don’t particularly like about the Rockler & Woodpecker is using a 1/2” bit + multiple passes & and having to run the collar around the circumference, as opposed to a single plunge cut with a 20mm or 3/4” bit.

When I do it, I think I’ll stick with the pegboard method and see how well it works.

Have you seen this Doc? Link Seems like a reasonable price for a true MFT top if you are going to use Festool dogs and components.

 

[DrRobert]

Have you seen this Doc? Link Seems like a reasonable price for a true MFT top if you are going to use Festool dogs and components.

I hadn't seen those, kinda pricey. I've looked at the Bora tops made for their Centipede stand, but they are 3/4" holes, which can be an issue. 3/4 vs 20mm (.787") Parf dogs are I believe 19.9 mm (.783) to fit 20mm holes, not gonna work with 3/4"

I believe Lee Valley and some others carry a 3/4" Parf dog, not sure about the ones made to attach a track.

Long story short, it seems to me if you're set up for it tool wise and want to go with a true MFT set up, you need to 20mm holes. There's just no easy way to do it: either a 20mm Forstner bit (cheapest) or 20mm router bit. That sends you down a bit of a rabbit hole looking for bits (Bosch and Festool are the only ones I've found) or a 20mm router bit, which only come in 10mm collet sizes, so you need a collet adapter. Either way its $50-70 depending on what you get.

So yeah, considering the cost of bits, template and time to make one, not to mention human error, I think a person might be better off buying a predrilled top?

For your home viewing entertainment:

 

[builtinbkyn2]

Not sure how exactly accurate these MFT tables must be to be of use, but his method does introduce error. His measuring from the edge instead of simply using another 4mm something or other inserted into the holes he drilled parallel, was silly. He has one awl of 4mm and couldn't find something else that's the same diameter? And suggesting you can just eyeball things by aligning the jig across half the hole, destroyed all the checking of accuracy he did prior to starting. I'm sure it will be sufficient, but as I asked, not sure how accurate these need to be. I've never used one.

 

[BigCountry79]

I hadn't seen those, kinda pricey. I've looked at the Bora tops made for their Centipede stand, but they are 3/4" holes, which can be an issue. 3/4 vs 20mm (.787") Parf dogs are I believe 19.9 mm (.783) to fit 20mm holes, not gonna work with 3/4"

I believe Lee Valley and some others carry a 3/4" Parf dog, not sure about the ones made to attach a track.

Long story short, it seems to me if you're set up for it tool wise and want to go with a true MFT set up, you need to 20mm holes. There's just no easy way to do it: either a 20mm Forstner bit (cheapest) or 20mm router bit. That sends you down a bit of a rabbit hole looking for bits (Bosch and Festool are the only ones I've found) or a 20mm router bit, which only come in 10mm collet sizes, so you need a collet adapter. Either way its $50-70 depending on what you get.

So yeah, considering the cost of bits, template and time to make one, not to mention human error, I think a person might be better off buying a predrilled top?

For your home viewing entertainment:

You have basically summed up why I refuse to buy anything festool.

"Let's make everything we sell custom to a standard we invent so users cannot use any other brand ever"

 

[DrRobert]

Not sure how exactly accurate these MFT tables must be to be of use, but his method does introduce error. His measuring from the edge instead of simply using another 4mm something or other inserted into the holes he drilled parallel, was silly. He has one awl of 4mm and couldn't find something else that's the same diameter? And suggesting you can just eyeball things by aligning the jig across half the hole, destroyed all the checking of accuracy he did prior to starting. I'm sure it will be sufficient, but as I asked, not sure how accurate these need to be. I've never used one.

I put that in the post to illustrate you can't slop your way through it. He could never rely on that table to reliably jig up anything square.

You have basically summed up why I refuse to buy anything festool.
"Let's make everything we sell custom to a standard we invent so users cannot use any other brand ever"

So you're able to get into the mind of an engineer or a production team in Germany? 35mm hinge cups, 32mm cabinet system, 20mm dog holes -- European standards and make perfect sense for something made in Germany.

Once upon a time, I had your attitude about Festool, and that's your right, and I agree to some extent, for example I'd never buy their jigsaw or miter saw. But I can tell you you're missing out on some excellent sanders. On second thought, nevermind, didn't you say you don't sand anything?

 

[BigCountry79]

So you're able to get into the mind of an engineer or a production team in Germany?

YEP!

 

[builtinbkyn2]

I put that in the post to illustrate you can't slop your way through it. He could never rely on that table to reliably jig up anything square.


So you're able to get into the mind of an engineer or a production team in Germany? 35mm hinge cups, 32mm cabinet system, 20mm dog holes -- European standards and make perfect sense for something made in Germany.

Once upon a time, I had your attitude about Festool, and that's your right, and I agree to some extent, for example I'd never buy their jigsaw or miter saw. But I can tell you you're missing out on some excellent sanders. On second thought, nevermind, didn't you say you don't sand anything?

He did take himself seriously lol

Hand cutting mortises and tenons can be relaxing or frustrating lol, but I do love my Festool Dominos to make quick work of things. Worth the price of admission IMO.

 

[DrRobert]

He did take himself seriously lol

Hand cutting mortises and tenons can be relaxing or frustrating lol, but I do love my Festool Dominos to make quick work of things. Worth the price of admission IMO.

It’s funny how people can have totally different experiences with a machine or tool. I had a Domino and it turned out not to be the game changer I thought it would. But my biggest issue was try as I might, I could never consistently get the alignment everyone talks about, in fact I got better results with a biscuit joiner. I always felt it was related to the fence. I really tried to eliminate operator error.

I sold it back during COVID when Festool shut down and it ended up @ $1100 on EBay.

I have a floor mortiser (nice machine) but limited to square material. After doing the mortises by router in the deck chair build, I got kinda sold on that.

 

[builtinbkyn2]

I use all methods including router and hand cut. The right means and method for the job, as they say, and sometimes it's just fun to do things a different way. But never had an issue with alignment using Dominos. There's actually a setting to allow for overcutting by 5mm in the X axis to overcome any alignment issues on long glue-ups. Like any tool/machine/method, there are nuances that need to be learned/understood thru use. I had a bench top mortiser and sold it. There have been times I considered a PM floor mortiser but just couldn't justify giving up the landscape it requires in the shop. Biscuits are fine for alignment, but don't provide the structural component of Dominos. That's where it shines and makes them easily repeatable.

 

[OldDon]

Bora Centipede tops come in 3/4" or 20mm hole versions. Plus one with no holes.

 

[LilMtnDave]

...

"I considered dowels but after trying then a couple of times I found they were hard to get in the exact center. "

...

I recently purchased this dowling kit. While there are certainly more expensive options, for <$25, this system centers and works pretty well overall.

 

[JayArr]

At that price point I'll pick one up.

The Rockler template arrived today and I'm pretty impressed. It's nice thick plexiglass so I'm not afraid of it breaking, they included pins for the outside to align it on the first corner and then three special dogs to keep aligning it as you move along the board. Lastly they included the guide for the router.

I'll post up more once I've tried it.

 

[JayArr]

Here's the result, it's not perfect but it's close enough for my skill set.

 

[DrRobert]

Here's the result, it's not perfect but it's close enough for my skill set.
View attachment 446797

I’d be interested in your experience with the jig, and whether you’ve checked the grid for accuracy. 😉

 

[JayArr]

Within 1/16" measuring with my 24" square. Good enough for my skill level. It's as accurate as my saws.

 

[DrRobert]

Within 1/16" measuring with my 24" square. Good enough for my skill level. It's as accurate as my saws.

That would be ok for face frames.

 

[Rebelwork]

Looks good to me…