[Verndog]

Do I need a Jointer?

I have a major project in my future doing a complete remodel of our kitchen. I will be doing raised panel doors and have a table saw, radial arm saw, router table, biscuit joiner, planer, Kreg jig etc. Do I really need a jointer if I purchase 4/4 stock that is supposedly flat on one side and one edge? I have heard of using the router table as a jointer for the panels etc. I ran into a gentleman at the woodworking show this weekend and he claimed that the jointer and the planer were the most important tools in the shop. It really got me thinking? Do I really need this monster? The jointer he recommended was a Delta DJ-20 and is around 6 Feet long and probably a couple feet wide. I feel that my shop is full now and I haven't even started to fill it with materials. There is obviously a lot of good advice on this forum and I definitely need some! Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Vern:smile:

 

[GeorgeC]

A planner is needed if you are going to start your work with rough cut wood. Or if you want to use a thickness of wood that is not available in stores.

If you are only going to use finished wood that is available in stores a planner is not necessary. I got by for 20 y ears without one.

Saw one on sale one day and bought it. It sat for over a year before I used it the first time. Now I do use it some but not a lot.

It can save you money if you do a lot of woodworking and want to purchase rough cut woods.

Now a jointer is something I could not live without.

George

 

[carlis stephens]

I dont know how one could do without one. A lot of raised panels are only 5/8" unless one would route a recees on the back side.

 

[Verndog]

Correction to my Question

Thanks guys for the advice!
After I looked closer at my post for replies I realized that I had written planer instead of jointer, as I stated I already have the planer. The wife was telling me to light the grill and start cooking and I guess I got in a hurry. So most of you out there think a jointer is a necessity for a kitchen project? So I have corrected my error! Hope the cabinets go better than my typing.
Thanks again!
Vern:laughing:

 

[edp]

Had a jointer,

sold it several years ago and haven't looked back yet and just to keep this on the up and up, I do build kitchens and stand alone pieces.

Ed

 

[Rich Aldrich]

I have a jointer and a planer. I use a lot of rough cut and find it easier to make square lumber using the jointer to flatten the first face and to joint the edges of boards.

You dont need one, but in my opinion, it does make life easier. There are many woodworkers who get by without one.

 

[scribbles]

I have a nice old 48"x6" cast iron jointer next to my table saw, I never use it. I have a piece of extruded aluminum u channel 2"x4"x10' long I clamp to my table saw fence. Faster and easer for me. I do millwork for a living as well. Other ppl use my jointer though, then I fix there work with my Table Saw, lol...

 

[knotscott]

There are many ways to accomplish most tasks and everyone approaches things differently. You don't need a jointer or a planer anymore than you need any tool, but they sure are do make wwing easier and more accurate. A jointer is the best tool for making the face of a board flat, straight, and square to an adjacent edge. The jointer is the first step in my dimensioning process for rough sawn lumber....flatten a face, square an adjacent edge to the face, then plane the opposite face parallel to the flat face. There are work-arounds but no tool is more efficient at it than a jointer IMO. Regardless of how you accomplish it, a flat face is the main point of reference for all other surfaces, and without it, your joinery won't be as accurate. If you skip the flattening step, your edges won't necessarily be a perfect 90° to the face.

You can build a sled for your planer and flatten the face of boards using the sled's surface as the primary reference, and then do your edge jointing with a router or TS. You can also flatten with a handplane but it's a lot of work and takes time. Or you can also pay a supplier extra to flatten a face for you.

My shop and budget limited me to a 6" jointer...I wish I had an 8" but I get by with the 6".

 

[Tony B]

I build furniture and I dont own a joiner. A good table saw and a good blade will be more than sufficient for a glue joint.

 

[timbertoes]

+1 on Knotscott's post.
I will add another, very important aspect:
boards that are bowed lengthwise.
Planer wont take that out.
A jointer will. Face joint to remove the bow, i.e. flatten the length of the face.
Then Plane for thickness.

 

[Jim Tank]

Sold my joiner 12 years ago

I found a good ripfence and a great carbide finish blade will give me straight boards with no tearout on nasty grained lumber much faster than a joiner. The joints are so good I use this method to join table tops and all other glue up projects. First rip with crown edge to blade and it's already straighter than several passes on joiner. Flip and rip with straighter edge to fence. It's the same principal as using a joiner from here, straightest edge goes to fence to cut straighter edge on blade. If you're straightening alot of lumber, use a rougher cut blade for first few cuts on all pieces first, then finer blade for finish cuts. Happy joining!!

 

[Dean Miller]

I can't imagine doing a panel glueup without my jointer. I have done TS joints that are good, but not as good as the jointer. I like that almost invisible joint only a jointer can do consistently. Dean

 

[woodnthings]

maybe so Jim, but

I found a good ripfence and a great carbide finish blade will give me straight boards with no tearout on nasty grained lumber much faster than a joiner. The joints are so good I use this method to join table tops and all other glue up projects. First rip with crown edge to blade and it's already straighter than several passes on joiner. Flip and rip with straighter edge to fence. It's the same principal as using a joiner from here, straightest edge goes to fence to cut straighter edge on blade. If you're straightening alot of lumber, use a rougher cut blade for first few cuts on all pieces first, then finer blade for finish cuts. Happy joining!!

How to you flatten the width of a board with cup or twist on a tablesaw? Maybe I should just ditch the 12" jointer and the 2 - 6" jointers I have, cause I must have missed something in the instruction book. Also Grizzly has about 10 pages of jointers in their '09 catalogue, including a massive 16" at $5695.00. You might want to contact them and tell them about your method. :yes: bill

 

[Jim Tank]

The few boards that are cupped beyond what the planer fixes, I use for mouldings or thinner strips. The success lies in the remarkable blades that are availiable these days. I sold my joiner 12 years ago, because I hadn't used it in two or three. I have built many table tops of cherry or other woods that require perfect joints, with great results. If your joiners make your job easier and you get great results, I think you should keep them & be happy. If some Saturday you have nothing to do, you might try the method. If it works for you, you could sell your joiners and buy a great sliding table saw to put in all that space the joiners took up. Oakland county is a great place, my wife and I got our marriage license in Pontiac in '73. Hope all is well there and your enjoying your craft.

 

[GeorgeC]

"you could sell your joiners and buy a great sliding table saw to put in all that space "

What is a sliding table saw?

G

 

[knotscott]

The few boards that are cupped beyond what the planer fixes, I use for mouldings or thinner strips.....

So it sounds to me like you're still doing some face flattening, but solely with the planer, which I think is the point that Bill was getting at....

 

[woodnthings]

George You must get a Grizzly catalogue!

You will drool over the tools in there and increase your knowledge immensely of the just about everything woodworking. Go to www.grizzly.com and have them send you one or do a search on their site. A sliding table, tablesaw has a moveable table on the right hand side that slides parallel with the blade on ball bearing tracks. It is used to crosscut large panels safely and accurately, smaller ones as well but the idea is that it supports the larger pieces while sawing. Prices start about $2000.:thumbsup: bill

 

[Jim Tank]

So Verndog, what kind of joiner did you buy?? Let us know how your project goes and how much you had to buy in new tools.

 

[Verndog]

Jim,
I have decided to try and use a good glue joint blade for my panels and see if I find the results acceptable. In the past I have only used my Amana 60 tooth, I have never tried a glue joint blade. I'm leaning towards the Freud coated. I have done several projects over the years and found the results acceptable for the most part. The room a joiner would take up bothers me more than the cost especially if it's something I can get by without. I would probably never use rough cut lumber so maybe I can get by. Thanks to all for the great advice and I will let you all know how if goes. If it doesn't work out I will have a good excuse to buy a joiner.
Thanks again!
Vern:smile: