Difficulty with square

962 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Rebelwork, 2 mo ago

yankleber

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

After a while away from woodworking I finally have a good shed, am buying my tools back and starting some projects.

The square issue is not new for me but I just realized that only 10% is my incompetence while the other 90% comes from the fact that my squares suck. I have four metal squares: two casted in a single piece - a big carpentry one and one of those small triangles; an "L" two piece one and a combination square. All of them seems not be reliable enough for a perfect square. I notice it clearly when I cut a piece of wood using any of the squares and check the square after the cut. It seems as they were all off something like a half or a full degree, IDK, since all of them looks bad I don't have a reference to be completely sure.

My question is how do you guys deal with this and if there is a way of doing square check without using an actual square?

Or the quest for the perfect square is just useless?

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Dave McCann

· #2 · 3 mo ago

yankleber said:
My question is how do you guys deal with this and if there is a way of doing square check without using an actual square?

There are a few slightly differing methods, this video illustrates one.

Reactions: 4

FrankC

· #3 · 3 mo ago

This is an easy way to check a square;

www.familyhandyman.com

Check if a Square is Square

All you need to check if a square is square is a piece of plywood with a factory edge, a pencil and of course a square. You may be surprised by the results.

www.familyhandyman.com

John Smith_inFL

· #4 · 3 mo ago

I have several "squares" of different vintage and designs. I took one 18x24" framing square to my local machine shop to have it calibrated with their precision instruments and I don't use it - I keep it resting between two filing cabinets and I use it to check the other squares. It is for calibration only - not for every day use. Once you find "one" that is perfect and dead on, you should do the same with that one.

Reactions: 3

Steve Neul

· #5 · 3 mo ago

yankleber said:
After a while away from woodworking I finally have a good shed, am buying my tools back and starting some projects.

The square issue is not new for me but I just realized that only 10% is my incompetence while the other 90% comes from the fact that my squares suck. I have four metal squares: two casted in a single piece - a big carpentry one and one of those small triangles; an "L" two piece one and a combination square. All of them seems not be reliable enough for a perfect square. I notice it clearly when I cut a piece of wood using any of the squares and check the square after the cut. It seems as they were all off something like a half or a full degree, IDK, since all of them looks bad I don't have a reference to be completely sure.

My question is how do you guys deal with this and if there is a way of doing square check without using an actual square?

Or the quest for the perfect square is just useless?

I don't know if I've had a small square that has gotten out of square. I have had a couple of framing squares which have gotten out of square. They went into my scrap metal box and replaced.

FrankC

· #6 · 3 mo ago

"I notice it clearly when I cut a piece of wood using any of the squares and check the square after the cut."

Still trying to figure this out, could it be the saw cutting off square?

yankleber

Discussion Starter · #7 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Dave McCann said:
There are a few slightly differing methods, this video illustrates one.

This video totally did the trick! I checked my squares and this was the result:

1) The speed square was correct - no need to take any measure
2) The two-part "L" square was correct - no need to take any measure
3) The frame square was wrong - the punch technique corrected it (I used a Philips screwdriver and a hammer)
4) The combination square was wrong - the scrape technique corrected it

Thanks all for the help!

FrankC said:
"I notice it clearly when I cut a piece of wood using any of the squares and check the square after the cut."
Still trying to figure this out, could it be the saw cutting off square?

I use a Stanley site table saw which fence seems to be OK the last time I checked it (I measured the distance from the blade to the fence either at the input side as well at the output side and it matched). However I usually notice the problem more often when I check square after to I clean up the edges of the panels using my Makita SP6000 saw track (long cuts). And in fact, I was using my frame square - because it's big size - for this and it indeed was out.

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Half Fast Eddie

· #8 · 3 mo ago

yankleber said:
4) The combination square was wrong - the scrapping technique corrected it

Get it back, it has uses. You can use it to draw a consistent depth, like marking a rabbet. It’s probably good enough for rough cuts. And if someone wants to borrow a square, let them use that one.

Like this …

Wood Finger Ruler Office ruler Tool

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Reactions: 1

yankleber

Discussion Starter · #9 · 3 mo ago

Half Fast Eddie said:
Get it back, it has uses. You can use it to draw a consistent depth, like marking a rabbet. It’s probably good enough for rough cuts. And if someone wants to borrow a square, let them use that one.

What do you mean with "get it back"? I didn't dump it. 😅 I just used the scrapping technique and fixed it. Watch the video and you will understand. 😄

DrRobert

· #10 · 3 mo ago

Buy yourself a 12” combo Starrett. It will serve as a reference square for anything else.

Reactions: 2

Half Fast Eddie

· #11 · 3 mo ago

I thought you scrapped it … into the dumpster. You meant scrape?

yankleber

Discussion Starter · #12 · 3 mo ago

Half Fast Eddie said:
I thought you scrapped it … into the dumpster. You meant scrape?

Yeah, I meant scrape. Stupid language mistakes from a non native English speaker. Foreigner here. Sorry!

ps. I fixed my post by the way!

Reactions: 2

jdonhowe

· #13 · 2 mo ago

FWIW, for me a more accurate method than that in the posted video is to place the test square back to back vertically with a known accurate square, with the bases on a flat even surface (e.g. table saw). With backlighting it's easy to see any small gap between the vertical matching edges, which might b missed in the width of a scribing line. A plastic drafting square makes an inexpensive reference perfect square; in a pinch, CD jewel cases are also quite square.

derekcohen

· #14 · 2 mo ago

My favourite square, from Chris Wong ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Reactions: 1

TomCT2

· #15 · 2 mo ago

I have a 18x24 framing square - aluminum.
with a mm tape measure and calculator, I went through several squares 'on the rack' before I found one where:

a squared
plus
b squared
=
c squared.

geometry - no machine shop required - can be rechecked at will.
absolutely dead on accurate.

it sits in its own dedicated holder - it's sole use is to check 'other' tools.

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Rebelwork

· #16 · 2 mo ago

I’ve squared so many framing squares, it ain’t funny. craftsman was square day one, the rest needed persuading..

Reactions: 2

Tree Hugger

· #17 · 2 mo ago

DrRobert said:
Buy yourself a 12” combo Starrett. It will serve as a reference square for anything else.

Being made for the metalworking industry they are very accurate out of the box

Tolerances in wood are far more forgiving yet it's reasonable to expect some degree of accuracy.
Problem is many woodworking tools are built to a price point and accuracy is not brought up as to two cannot coexist.

Here's some very accurate squares that are cnc machined, not stamped out of some questionable metal from some 3rd world nation.

www.woodpeck.com

Woodpeckers 26” and 18” Precision Woodworking Squares

Woodpeckers 2616 and 1812 combine the size of a carpenter's framing square with the precise construction of a furniture maker's try square. The reinforced beam lets the squares stand on their own and provides an accurate edge reference you'll never get with a framing square. They're the ideal...

www.woodpeck.com

Rebelwork

· #18 · 2 mo ago

If I needed $400 to be square, I’ll start drawing circles..

Reactions: 2

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