Woodworking Talk banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a number of industrial machines that I want to use in my home workshop. These all run off 3 phase motors and are predominantly belt drive with the exception of the radial arm saw.

What I want to do is have 1 motor with a VFD to drive the lot. My question is how?

I will be rebuilding my workshop from scratch and will have plenty of crawl space under the floor. What I had in mind was some kind of shaft with pulleys and belts that would come up from under the floor to each machine. Obviously I dont want to run all machines at once. Possibly 2 at a time at the most if there is someone else here with me but I would think probably just one at a time unless I try to run DC off the same motor then it would be 2 at a time most of the time.

I want to be able to engage and dis-engage machinery while the motor is running. As I could be using it for 8 hrs or more in a day I worry about pulleys rubbing on a 'slack' belt possibly wearing them out.

Would some kind of shaft drive with a clutch between each machine be a better option. The biggest machine is the thickness machine


image-67817196.jpg


The floor will be timber and I can beef up the specs for the load. Another question I have is would industrial conveyor belt be good to use between the machine and floor to dampen noise and vibration?

Looking forward to advice and input

regards

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
What I want to do is have 1 motor with a VFD to drive the lot. My question is how?

Dave
Well, my question is why?

Sounds like you're building a shop like when they had a steam engine driving everything with a drive shaft in the cieling and with flat drive belts down to the machines. Must have been some sort of clutch to engage the different machines.

So why not have a motor for each machine?
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I dont have 3 phase, I have 12 or more items on 3 phase, so it is either a lot of VFD to convert to 3 phase $$$$ or a lot of $$$$ to put 3 phase on.

Also if I have one motor set up to do everything then if it goes bad I just switch the motor which I could have a spare.

The workshop will be a bit of a museum for tourists to come and see and watch me work. I like the idea of it being something different as a further draw card for people to come and see

Yes very much like the steam idea only I dont wont belts from above
 

·
Tool Fanactic
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
I would make a RPC that would run all of them.

What you need to do what you want, are a bunch of tight loose pulleys and belt shifters.

TL pulleys are getting really hard to find and are quite expensive.

All that stuff is too fussy to have in a place that is hard to get to.
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would make a RPC that would run all of them.

What you need to do what you want, are a bunch of tight loose pulleys and belt shifters.

TL pulleys are getting really hard to find and are quite expensive.

All that stuff is too fussy to have in a place that is hard to get to.
I've only recently learnt what a VFD is, what is a RPC

thx

Dave
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
must have used the wrong search engine cause I turned up computer programs and hardware stores etc .... thx for the link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,955 Posts
As long as you don't run too many machines on the VFD at the same time you should be able to just wire all of them to the one VFD.

On the RPC, the thing about a three phase motor is if you had a way to get it turning to the running speed it would run on single phase 220. It wouldn't run very well but it would run. Then if you hooked it to a second 3 phase motor it would run almost like you had it wired to three phase. You would loose a little horse power but it would work. This is the concept around a rotary phase converter. It is a three phase motor that has capacitors to get it running but also has more capacitors to bump up the voltage on the third line so you would loose very little horse power. On mine it has 110V on L1 & L2 but 220V on L3. The only thing I don't like about them is they are more expensive than a VFD and I only have one machine with a three phase motor that isn't used very frequent so I keep having to turn it on and off. In your case you could turn one on and let it run all day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
DaveTTC said:
I dont have 3 phase, I have 12 or more items on 3 phase, so it is either a lot of VFD to convert to 3 phase $$$$ or a lot of $$$$ to put 3 phase on.
Thank God, where I live every thing runs on 220v and every house/building is already a three phase.

The bad thing, I dont have any machinery that requires a 3 phase. LOL
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
28,698 Posts
the power source is one issue ....

The drive mechanics are another...belts and pulleys, air like some Amish, hydraulic drive pump and motor, separate electric motors,...
If you don't want the danger factor of expose flat belt drives off an overhead line then you might have to reinvent the wheel so to speak.
The reason that was done back when was it was the easiest and most economical with a single power source, like a water wheel. Some Amish shops still power their machines that way but use a Diesel engine:

See post no. 3:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?56697-visit-to-an-Amish-mill

http://amishamerica.com/amish-furniture-washington/
QUOTE:
Contrary to belief, Amish woodworkers do in fact utilize a significant degree of technology in crafting furniture. Saws, sanders, planers, and drills are among the numerous power tools used in Amish shops. However the means of providing power varies. Some Amish rely on belt and pulley power provided via a drive shaft situated beneath the floor of the furniture shop. Other more progressive Amish rely on pneumatic or hydraulic power.

http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amish_tech.htm
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Look into "line shaft" designs - there is a lot to be learned from steam powered and donkey engine set-ups for what you are wanting to do.
I'll look into that

Thank you
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
woodnthings - I will check those links out also, just stopped for lunch down under but after dinner / tea I will come back to those links.
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
28,698 Posts
upon further reflection....

woodnthings - I will check those links out also, just stopped for lunch down under but after dinner / tea I will come back to those links.
Why not just above the floor line shaft, rather than from the ceiling or below the floor where it would be inaccessible? Maybe at a height of 3 to 5 ft from the floor. Safety guards would be a necessity for sure, but they could be made from expanded metal lath for visibilty. :blink:
 

·
Tool Fanactic
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
I turn my 15hp RPC on when I start shop work and let it run until I am done.

It feeds a 3 phase panel and I have breakers for each machine and the wiring is all run in emt.

It was not that epensive. A vfd to power a motor big enough to run a shaft for the whole shop will cost more then a rpc.

My rpc opens me up to all sorts of high quality industrial machinery for rock bottom prices.
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Frank - That looks interesting, there was only suggestion to use it with a comment that the guy had used it too. Have you seen any more information on it?

I may have to join that forum to find out if you don't happen to know yourself. I'm getting forum'ed out lol, I think I'm on about 7 now

Thanks

Dave
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Picking out highlights from the advice and links etc into one post so far
I would make a RPC that would run all of them.
Rotary Phase Converter. This site explains the methods to convert single phase to 3 phase power.

http://www.staticphaseconverter.org/rotaryphaseconverters.htm
Look into "line shaft" designs - there is a lot to be learned from steam powered and donkey engine set-ups for what you are wanting to do.
I turn my 15hp RPC on when I start shop work and let it run until I am done.

It feeds a 3 phase panel and I have breakers for each machine and the wiring is all run in emt.

It was not that epensive. A vfd to power a motor big enough to run a shaft for the whole shop will cost more then a rpc.

My rpc opens me up to all sorts of high quality industrial machinery for rock bottom prices.
I have heard of automotive A/C compressor clutches used with line shafts.
Found a link here:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69062
I still am at the early stages and dont know which way I will go

Thanks all so far, this is all interesting and helpful.
 

·
Turning Wood Into Art
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I do not know what either one of them is.

Sure would be nice if posters used the proper form of writing so that us with less knowledge could follow along with them.

George
both are to do with converting single phase to 3 phase

VFD - Variable Frequency Drive
RPC - Rotary Phase Converter
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top