Woodworking Talk banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi WWT, I'm Matt. I am a computer super geek... I do a bit of small electronics soldering, and I super cool processors with liquid nitrogen, for fun and benchmark competition (think essentially pointless but pretty cool, like drag racing). I manage the Overclockers computer site.

I am also an absolute novice with woodworking. In the past month tho, I've built two basement shelves, a bathroom shelf, and a TV cabinet for our bedroom... Using a circular saw for the first time ever. So I'm coming along, reading a lot, and learning by just building stuff. I have a lot to build as I moved into my first home two months ago. A 9 foot dinner table and a deck are in my future, but I'm building experience first while scraping together what tools I can on a budget.

Now to the guts... I have my eye on a craigslist delta 10" table saw. it has two problems. Bad switch, which I've already read about fixing on these here forums (thanks). The other problem, which I don't know the name of the part, is the missing piece in the surface of the table that goes around the opening for the saw. What is it called, and where should I look to find a suitable replacement? I don't know what the popular retailers are with this crowd, who may carry salvage/replacement parts like this.

I believe this is a 10" unit, but the CL posting is vague, and I'm calling tomorrow for more info. Its listed for $75, as it doesn't actually run due to the switch, but the motor has been tested good. This is right up my alley - I've had luck in the past buying "dead" graphics cards, which really just needed a fan replaced or some solder reflowed. Some were duds, but with risk there can be reward.

Also, what questions should I ask? Here's what I have in mind:

- model number of saw (hopefully a 3000rpm+, not an older one half that speed)
- age of saw
- I won't be asking this, but when i go to look it over, I'll be looking at things like the pulleys or drive belts which could be worn, and also for missing screws or bent items that could represent further repair costs

Thanks for any advice or insight you can offer.
 

·
Dumbest Smart Person
Joined
·
434 Posts
Welcome! I'm definitely a fan of overclocking. I've gotten my 2600K to 4.8GHz stable on air. Would love to see what it could with nitrogen!

piece in the surface of the table that goes around the opening for the saw. What is it called
You can make a blade throat plate, but you can buy one for about $25.


3650rpm is the speed most table saws operate at, at least that I've seen .

Age really doesn't matter, since the design of saws hasn't changed too much in the last 50 years. Newer saws are starting to come with splitters or riving knives, but I doubt a $75 saw with a broken switch will have either.

Glad you mentioned belts and pulleys. You definitely want a belt drive. If the belt is warn or really old, it may introduce vibration which can affect the accuracy of the cuts and wear out the bearings. Some people opt to replace the belt with something like this. When belts get old, they start to take the shape of the pulleys and when those areas go around the pulleys at high speed, you get vibration. The PowerTwist belts eliminate that.

Feel free to post a pic of the saw and we'll evaluate it for you.

Here's a quick list I've made as a sort of copy pasta reply to table saw questions. Some of these things you already know you want, but here it is anyway. I fear that a $75 saw may not have all of these what I consider to be CORE features:

You want a full-size saw top. Full-depth and flat cast iron top. Full depth saws are 27" deep. Check the top with a straight edge before you buy it. Yes, cast iron can warp. No, you do not want a warped top.

You need a quality rip-fence. Tough to find on less expensive saws, but they can be had. Typically your older craftsman saws with angle iron for fence rails have a very bad fence. The newer saws with thick aluminum rails often have very accurate and adjustable fences. Spend a little more to get a saw with a good fence because a decent aftermarket fence is about $200+.

Standard miter slots. They are 3/4" wide and 3/8" deep. Anything smaller is bull**** and will severely limit your ability to use jigs. I can't say I've seen smaller slots on a cast iron top, however.

Removable blade throat plate or insert. You want to be able to make or use what are called zero clearance inserts. This is important so you don't chip your wood. Makes cuts look like they're laser cut.

Belt-driven motor. Saves your ears since belt drives are MUCH quieter than smaller, direct drive saws. Belt driven saws are more repairable since replacement motors are easy to obtain and install.

If you're cramped on space, a mobile base with casters is nice since moving a several-hundred-pound saw without a base is a royal pain in the ass.

Try to budget at least $175 - $300 for a used saw. The problems you'll run into with cheaper saws missing core features quickly negate any money saved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,767 Posts
RD gave a fine reply to your post, I.M.O.G., and welcome to the forum! It sounds like you are off to a good start.

I'll add a couple things: Delta made a lot of excellent stuff but also made some stinkers. Research before you buy. If you can come up with a model number of the saw you are looking at, post it here to get opinions. Also, proprietary Delta parts can be impossible to get. The company was bought by a Chinese firm a couple years ago and the transition has been amazingly bad as far as replacement parts are concerned.

Regarding motor speed: it generally doesn't matter. Thought there are some older saws out there with 1750 RPM motors, if they are belt driven, the pulley ratios get the blade speed back where it belongs. Also, the belt driven saws will generally have induction motors which, if nothing else, are a heck of a lot quieter.

Next, if you haven't already, read Knotscott's four stickies at the top of the Power Tools page. Scott is really knowledgeable and is our resident blade genius. I've bought blades recommended by him on several occasions and have always been pleased. BTW, put a fresh blade or two on your wish list for your new saw.

Since you like electronics, you could always challenge yourself by buying a three phase saw and researching phase conversion. The VFD's are pretty cool.

While doing your research, don't skimp on the safety instruction. Table saws are great tools but can bite bad if you don't know all the safety aspects, especially kickback avoidance, proper use of guards, splitters, etc .

Good Luck,
Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
Replacing a switch should be pretty easy, and finding a new throat insert should be very easy. Getting the right type of saw is more important than the brand IMO.....as stated, Delta has some fine saws, but also has some that are less desirable. A full size cast iron saw with a belt drive induction motor will generally provide the best service and most upgrade potential down the road. Dropping us the link, a pic, and/or the model number would give us a much better idea of what you're looking at.

I've got just enough PC knowledge to be dangerous....I know which buttons to push to make it go faster, and am ignorant enough to not be afraid! :huh: :laughing: I wonder if you've ever advised me on one of the PC forums, as I've posted a few questions before. I've overclocked my AMD FX4100 up to 4.8GHZ for a short while, but backed down to a comfy 4.4 where's it's been very stable for 7 months now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys. I will add more info as I have it available, i appreciate the input. Couple chores here, some QT with the wife, and then I can get what detail I can on the phone and setup a viewing if its still worthwhile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
OK, so dude doesn't really know what he's got. He's got the saw at work, so he's going to let me know tomorrow morning on the model number... Regardless I'm probably going to swing by at the end of day tomorrow and look it over. He's mentioned a couple times now price is negotiable, so it might just be a heap and he wants to unload it. Even if that's the case, sounds like the power switch and throat insert is easy to source and resolve, so this saw might get me by for $50 until I find something more long term. We'll see once I get a look at it.

Surprised to find two overclocking guys in this thread right off the bat. :) The 2600k, and all Sandy bridge chips cold bug at lower than -50C, so they don't gain much from cold. A lot would run around 5.4Ghz, the better ones 5.7Ghz or more. Luck of the draw. A little subzero did help keep them from giving up the magic smoke too quickly. The fx-4100s, like all bulldozer and piledriver chips love the cold all the way down to -196C... I had an fx-8120 at 8.2GHz for a screenshot. It could run benchmarks at up to 7.7GHz but wasn't exactly "stable". :-D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
A "full size" Delta will have a standard 27" deep table (front to back), with a variety of extension wings available. The 27" depth is the best way to know if it's a full size saw. They also made a "compact saw" that looks a lot like a full size contractor saw but is only 22" deep, and has a direct drive universal motor (aka screamer)....much less desirable, but still capable of cutting wood. Delta also had some small cheapie benchtop models that are pretty tough to work with...light, loud, small, sloppy :thumbdown:.

Here's an old Delta/Rockwell type saw.....very good basic bones, though the original jetlock style fence wasn't much to write home about. It'd have a belt drive induction motor hanging off the back:


Here's a newer Delta 36-650 that was pretty common ~ 15 years ago. It'd also have a belt drive induction motor hanging off the back:


Here's the compact type Delta that's 22" deep...note how much it resembles a full size saw. It's smaller and has much different construction under the hood:


Here's a humble Delta benchtop saw:
 

·
Dumbest Smart Person
Joined
·
434 Posts
Yeah, I almost fell for a 22" deep delta. I got impatient, but I thought better of it and found a larger saw for less. I ended up spending more time than was necessary restoring an old craftsman, then found a killer deal on a Ridgid in great shape that needed no major restoration. I paid $200 for the Ridgid(the current version sells for about $500 new and isn't even as good). Since then, I've seen a few more in similar condition around that price, so it's pretty common, I guess. I even saw one with the famous granite top for $250! I didn't see the ad until 2 hours after it was posted, so it was already gone. :-(

I'll admit, I actually don't overclock unless I'm doing a large project that would take advantage of the speed(noise reduction on thousands of low-light photos). For just day-to-day photo editing, video games, surfing, OCing isn't necessary. My computer generates so much heat when it's OC'd, and draws probably a couple hundred more watts. I let it chill most of the time. The crappy central AC here runs at 100% capacity when the outside temps are over 95, so I'd rather leave the window unit off than have an extra GHz. I like knowing the power is there when I need it, especially since this is the first processor I've ever been able to OC noticeably faster. My first 5 or so builds were AMD boxes that I used the least expensive OEM CPUs I could find on Pricewatch. Not OC friendly, since I later found out that some unscrupulous vendors would test what chips would OC the most, then sell the ones that wouldn't go very far on Pricewatch as "Tested - OEM." My second to last build was with a retail boxed CPU from Fry's, but that chip(7750 "black Edition") didn't OC at all. So, when I got this to 4.8 I was really excited!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
This is funny, but Scott nailed it... This was the saw:


Exactly. I passed, and will keep looking as I read a bit around here. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
This is funny, but Scott nailed it... This was the saw: Exactly. I passed, and will keep looking as I read a bit around here. :)
Ouch....prolly not worth the effort. What general geographic area are you in? These guys are pretty good at spotting deals, and someone may know someone who knows someone, etc....
 

·
Dumbest Smart Person
Joined
·
434 Posts
That looks strikingly similar to my old Skilsaw. Almost dumpster bait. It's good for cutting 2x4s that don't need any kind of accuracy. I see saws like this quite often for $30 - $50. If you had to do any repairing, it would be a waste of time.

I wish you were in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. The saw below just popped up this morning on CL for $125 with a dado stack. I'd go get it, but it'd be my fourth table saw.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
You've got all kinds of bargains listed near you. :thumbsup:

This one's $45.....worth every penny and then some. You can add a better fence when you get to it. http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3963338770.html

Here's a gem for $150 similar to what RobbinDobbie showed. The rust will clean up pretty easily, and makes for a good bartering point. It's got a nice fence and cast iron wings.
http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3949871130.html

This one's not cast iron, and not full size, but the parts are desirable, so you could part it out on Ebay, and put the proceeds toward a saw you want.
http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3939213268.html

This would be worth a $100 offer:
http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3963311011.html
 

·
Dumbest Smart Person
Joined
·
434 Posts
Oh man, the $150 craftsman looks ideal with that fence. It's a $100 more than the first one, but in addition to the good fence, it's got cast iron wings instead of stamped steel. That rust will clean up quite easily and you should have a nice saw that'll do almost anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
You guys are full legit (as opposed to full of ****, lol). Thanks for the help, looking closer at the suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Trying to setup a viewing on the $150 Craftsman. Read that the fence is pretty good, according to a comparison PDF I found from finewoodworking. Read all the stickies in this section. More cast iron = good.

What elements of this saw are desirable enough for parting out? http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3939213268.html I wouldn't be shy of giving that a shot as well perhaps, but before doing anything on Ebay I tend to research enough to ensure I can cover costs/shipping and won't be stuck for an extended period looking for a buyer - ebay can be such a pain in the neck. I would really prefer not to go the ebay route, so maybe I'll see about getting my post count to 25 and moving it through here if I do pick it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
Trying to setup a viewing on the $150 Craftsman. Read that the fence is pretty good, according to a comparison PDF I found from finewoodworking. Read all the stickies in this section. More cast iron = good.

What elements of this saw are desirable enough for parting out? http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/3939213268.html I wouldn't be shy of giving that a shot as well perhaps, but before doing anything on Ebay I tend to research enough to ensure I can cover costs/shipping and won't be stuck for an extended period looking for a buyer - ebay can be such a pain in the neck. I would really prefer not to go the ebay route, so maybe I'll see about getting my post count to 25 and moving it through here if I do pick it up.
There's a very helpful website dedicated to the BT3 type saws called, BT3Central.com. I'm sure the folks there could advise you on how best to part out that saw, and roughly what it might be worth. There's probably not a ton of money to be made, but if it nets you a nice free blade, it could be worth the effort.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top