[noveske]

Are Delta Dust Collectors bad? Don't see much talk about them. Anyone have experience with them?

I see a lot of people default to the HF ones. So I'm trying to decide if I should work with my ShopVac and make it work as a newbie or upgrade to a dust collector.
Came across a page where dude did tests on a few dust collectors.
I'm a believer in actual data. Tests show advertised specs are inflated. matter-replicator's findings showed HF 1HP to be .43HP and the HF 2HP to be .8HP.

Here are my thoughts and I hope you guys don't mind giving me some input.
I did purchase the Delta 50-732T2 because it was more than half off and that just seemed like a good deal. Now just thinking it through, seeing if I should keep it, go the HF route if the performance and value is better or just stick to my Shop Vac.

Ridgid WD1450

• 150 CFM

HF 1HP - $169.99 (May have a coupon available.)

• 660 CFM (250-441CFM with Filter Bag)
• Plastic Impeller?

HF 2HP - $299.99 (May have a coupon available.) + $50 (Wen 3403-022)

• 1550 CFM (820 CFM with Filter Bag)
• Impeller would be upgraded.
• Upgrade the electric in the garage.

Delta 50-732T2 - $327.12 - Home Depot

• 750 CFM - Advertised (I'm hoping Delta would be more true about their numbers.)
• Steel Impeller
• Looks like the Blower Housing Assembly is one piece. (Limits configuration.)

Resources:
Ridgid WD14500
HF 1HP Manual
HF 2HP Manual
Delta 50-732T2 Manual

matter-replicator

 

[B Coll]

What machines and how many blast gates will you be running off it? If you are running directly to one machine and your biggest dust maker is a 12" planer, then I would think any of those machines would suffice. If you are setting up for multiple machines, blast gates, 15" planer, jointer, table saw, shaper then you would likely want close to a true 2hp unit.

 

[Steve Neul]

I've never been around a Delta DC. I have two of the HF dust collectors. They do alright for like sanding dust or sawdust from a table saw. Hooked up to a jointer or something that makes chips they tend to get stopped up pretty easily. In next to the impeller there is a metal grille which seems to catch chips.

 

[noveske]

What machines and how many blast gates will you be running off it? If you are running directly to one machine and your biggest dust maker is a 12" planer, then I would think any of those machines would suffice. If you are setting up for multiple machines, blast gates, 15" planer, jointer, table saw, shaper then you would likely want close to a true 2hp unit.

I'm keeping it simple with a miter saw, table saw, some sanders and maybe grabbing a small planer. Most likely just running one at a time. Probably no blast gates. Is there any benefit for me to get a dust collector? Should I just stick with the Shop Vac and save money?

 

[woodnthings]

Woodshops make two different sizes or types of wood waste, chips from jointers and planers and dust from table saws and bandsaws.
Chips are larger and take up more room in the suction hose, too much for a shop vac to "swallow". It's best to use a full size DC unit like the HF 2 HP for those. However, dust from a bandsaw, miter saw or some table saws that have a shop vac size dust port will work fine.

The table saw is a special case, however. The most common method utilizes a 4" dust port at the bottom of the saw's base, where a slanted shelf directs the dust into the port. Gravity is the main force at play here, because by the time the dust settles and slides down the chute, it's no longer airborne.
In order to collect that airborne dust, you need a very powerful DC with a high CFM draw, 3 HP or more. Most home shops don't have enough CFMs to work well for the large volume inside a saw's base cabinet. The older contractor type table saws, that sit on a bench or raised stand are the worst case. There's a large opening on the back for the belt and motor, and typically an open base underneath, so there's no way to focus the suction hose. Newer saws have a shroud around the blade that is much like that on the radial arm saw, and it does much better at collection the dust spun off by the blade.

You Tube has a number of DIY solutions to collecting dust on a table saw, including over the blade collectors that work above the table.
The best approach on a table saw, is to have both an under the table blade shroud and and above the table one working together.
This is what I did on my older Craftsman 12" direct drive saws, using a shop vac on the above the table collector and a 1.5 Jet DC on the 4" port under the tables:

There are drawbacks to this type of system and unless you can swing it out of the way, it will obstruct certain types of operations.
Mine does pivot on the vertical post completely off to the side. I have tried various other methods of over the blade collectors over the years,
but there's always some issue with them. A table saw is a special case, in my experience, and not easy to solve.

 

[noveske]

Woodshops make two different sizes or types of wood waste, chips from jointers and planers and dust from table saws and bandsaws.
Chips are larger and take up mire room in the suction hose, too much for a shop vac to "swallow". It's best to use a full size DC unit like the HF 2 HP for those.
Dust from a bandsaw, miter saw or some table saws that have a shop vac size dust port will work fine.

The table saw is a special case, however. The most common method utilizes a 4" dust port at the bottom of the saw's base, where a slanted shelf directs the dust into the port. Gravity is the main force at play here, because by the time the dust settles and slide down the chute, it's no longer airborne.
In order to collect that airborne dust, you need a very powerful DC with a high CFM draw, 3 HP or more. Most home shops don't have enough CFMs to work well for the large volume inside a saw's base cabinet. The older contractor type table saws, that sit on a bench or raised stand are the worst case. There's a large opening on the back for the belt and motor, and typically an open base underneath, so there's no way to focus the suction hose. Newer saws have a shroud around the blade that is much like that on the radial arm saw, and it does much better at collection the dust spun off by the blade.

You Tube has a number of DIY solutions to collecting dust on a table saw, including over the blade collectors that work above the table.
The best approach on a table saw, is to have both an under the table blade shroud and and above the table one working together.
This is what I did on my older Craftsman 12" direct drive saws, using a shop vac on the above the table collector and a 1.5 Jet DC on the 4" port under the tables:
View attachment 444873

There are drawbacks to this type of system and unless you can swing it out of the way, it will obstruct certain types of operations.
Mine does pivot on the vertical post completely off to the side. I have tried various other methods of over the blade collectors over the years,
but there's always some issue with them. A table saw is a special case, in my experience, and not easy to solve.

Thank you for the in depth explanation. You really broke it down for me completely that my mind isn't going off into 4 different ways trying to solve something. I'm thinking I might be able to get away with a Shop Vac or 2 and revisit an actual dust collection system if I move to a place where I can setup a shop. So now I'll focus on more effective dust collection starting with my table saw. I'm just starting to take wood work more seriously and I'm glad I found this place. Thank you.

I guess I could optimize the table saw dust collection. Then for a planer, find one with a blower.

 

[DrRobert]

I throw away any mind melting Pentz charts about static pressure, CFM’s, air velocity etc, and think of DC this way - suction (static pressure) for producers of fine dust - hand sanders, direct collection of a miter saw, small bandsaw, etc. Volumes (CFM’s) for machines producing shavings - jointers, planers, machines with a 4” port. Add to that drum sanders and table saw cabinets.

But, on table saws, IMO collecting from a cabinet or base is next to useless, as 95% of the dust that matters is thrown off the blade into air. That said, very, very good air flow on the order of 4-600CFM’s can collect a good amount of dust as the blade enters the space below the top. But to get this you also need a very big blower, as WNT mentioned, and depending on the setup, maybe 5HP.

So for the table saw, focus on collecting off the blade & a shop vac can do that well. Close up the bottom of the saw as much as possible and simply clean out when needed. The only issue with overhead collection, is the dust boot will get in the way of some types of cuts.

So I agree with your thinking that until you get the planer, jointer or drum sander there is really no need for a blower. I strongly suggest you have more than one shop vac. Depending on your work flow, dedicating a shop vac to a machine might save you some time and aggravation. You can often get them very cheap at garage sales.

I want to add that I think we forget about air quality in the DC equation. The really dangerous dust is floating around our shops long after we rip out masks off and turn off the DC. Air filtration is a must. A high capacity exhaust fan to clear noxious odors. HEPA filters + HEPA bags are a very good idea for shop vacs as well as a preseparator like cyclones.

 

[noveske]

I throw away any mind melting Pentz charts about static pressure, CFM’s, air velocity etc, and think of DC this way - suction (static pressure) for producers of fine dust - hand sanders, direct collection of a miter saw, small bandsaw, etc. Volumes (CFM’s) for machines producing shavings - jointers, planers, machines with a 4” port. Add to that drum sanders and table saw cabinets.

But, on table saws, IMO collecting from a cabinet or base is next to useless, as 95% of the dust that matters is thrown off the blade into air. That said, very, very good air flow on the order of 4-600CFM’s can collect a good amount of dust as the blade enters the space below the top. But to get this you also need a very big blower, as WNT mentioned, and depending on the setup, maybe 5HP.

So for the table saw, focus on collecting off the blade & a shop vac can do that well. Close up the bottom of the saw as much as possible and simply clean out when needed. The only issue with overhead collection, is the dust boot will get in the way of some types of cuts.

So I agree with your thinking that until you get the planer, jointer or drum sander there is really no need for a blower. I strongly suggest you have more than one shop vac. Depending on your work flow, dedicating a shop vac to a machine might save you some time and aggravation. You can often get them very cheap at garage sales.

I want to add that I think we forget about air quality in the DC equation. The really dangerous dust is floating around our shops long after we rip out masks off and turn off the DC. Air filtration is a must. A high capacity exhaust fan to clear noxious odors. HEPA filters + HEPA bags are a very good idea for shop vacs as well as a preseparator like cyclones.

Very informative. I'm going to return the Delta DC. Then pick up the filter and bags as I've been using the original filter from it years ago. I do have a cyclone in place and am currently in the process of building one. Solving a problem that doesn't exist with that one. Seems I got way ahead of myself and wish I got on here sooner.

 

[Tony B]

I originally bought the HF Dust Collector for around $150. It wasn't all that good and consider the warranty is usualy around 90 days I think.
Returned it for a comparable Wen unit for around $140. It would clog immediately.and I think it was on this forum where I read to just cut out the "Y" shaped steel bars on the intake and am very satisified with its performance.
I made a small cart with 4 wheels - the lower shelf houses the Dust Collector and the top of the cart rests my planer. The main uses for this DC is for my planer and chop saw. For the chop saw, I wheel the cart over to it un-hose from the planer end and use that end for my chop saw, but that's another story.

 

[noveske]

So I think I am going to settle on the ShopVac.
I did grab a planer, went with the Dewalt 735X since it has the assisted blower. That way I can connect it straight to a cyclone separator.

I'll be working on some type of overhead and sealing under solution for the table saw.

Think it would be worth grabbing a small air filtration system?
Came across this: WEN 3410 3-Speed Remote-Controlled Air Filtration System (300/350/400 CFM)

$105, is $105 right? I am in a tiny area.

 

[Biotec]

Most shop vacs cannot handle the DeWalt. 735 it runs about 300 cfm most shop vacs are less. 100 to 200 cfm so it leaks out some where.
If working in a confined space, more dust collection you have the safer it is.

Good luck

 

[noveske]

Most shop vacs cannot handle the DeWalt. 735 it runs about 300 cfm most shop vacs are less. 100 to 200 cfm so it leaks out some where.
If working in a confined space, more dust collection you have the safer it is.

Good luck

I figured the Dewalt doesn't have dust collection, but it does launch it out, so I wouldn't need something to pull. So if it goes straight down into a seperator, it would work out. I guess having air filtration would help catch some of the fine dust floating around. So it does make sense to me. But I want to make sure there's actual benefit to my thought process.

Sort of like this.

 

[Biotec]

I would use a much larger barrel. This One is similar to mine about 32 gallons.
Mine is like this one.

Cut the top put in 5 gal paint pal used the dust stopper. Need to get a picture of it
to a dust bag

works ok but I work out side.
In about three hours I can fill the trashcan with planer dust.

 

[woodnthings]

I figured the Dewalt doesn't have dust collection, but it does launch it out, so I wouldn't need something to pull. So if it goes straight down into a seperator, it would work out. I guess having air filtration would help catch some of the fine dust floating around. So it does make sense to me. But I want to make sure there's actual benefit to my thought process.

Sort of like this.

View attachment 444972

That 15 ft? of ribbed hose will reduce your performance by 25% or so and you are under powered to start with.
You are also reducing a 4" to a 2 1/2 which further reduces the air flow.
Buy yourself a cheap CFM flow meter and experiment with various configurations to get the best performance.

 

[noveske]

I would use a much larger barrel. This One is similar to mine about 32 gallons.
Mine is like this one. View attachment 444975
Cut the top put in 5 gal paint pal used the dust stopper. Need to get a picture of it
to a dust bag View attachment 444978

works ok but I work out side.
In about three hours I can fill the trashcan with planer dust.

That 15 ft? of ribbed hose will reduce your performance by 25% or so and you are under powered to start with.
You are also reducing a 4" to a 2 1/2 which further reduces the air flow.
Buy yourself a cheap CFM flow meter and experiment with various configurations to get the best performance.

Should I bother with buying the air filtration system?
For the planer, that was just a picture I found. I'll figure something out to hard line it from 4" to 4" and find a different dust separator.

 

[woodnthings]

Yes, get an air filtration system or make one. You Tube has a zillion ways to make one.
Proper dust collection in a shop has the following:
A large, 1.5 HP to 3 HP unit with a 4" or larger piping system.
One or more shop vacs attached to the ports of various saws and sanders including hand ROS sanders.
An overhead air filtration system that will filter the very fine dust that gets airborne in every workshop.
Good personal protection dust masks that are worn when working in the shop.

Each of those separate systems/appliances can be researched on You Tube to find low cost alternatives.
Woodworkers have been experimenting with these systems for years and have come up with pretty good concepts.
Oneida is one of the better dust collecting manufacturing companies and they are always improving on their product line.
Go to their website and check out the information and their great products..

 

[B Coll]

I'm keeping it simple with a miter saw, table saw, some sanders and maybe grabbing a small planer. Most likely just running one at a time. Probably no blast gates. Is there any benefit for me to get a dust collector? Should I just stick with the Shop Vac and save money?

If you have a cabinet saw and a planer you might be better off with a dust collector, but you can get by with the most basic. for some tools such as hand tools I find I get better suction out of a shop vac than restricting a 4" pipe from my dust collection system. Planers definitely benefit from a dust collector. Contractor saws and some others really do not have the best dust collection engineering and it will not work as you are probably thinking. I have a pretty decent cabinet saw and a decent dust collection system and inside the cabinet of my saw and spindle shaper there is usually about a foot and a half of saw dust.

 

[Tony B]

Here is a cart I made for my Dewalt Planer and my Ryobi? Dust collector. The length of the cart was determined by the Dust Collector and the inflated bag. The height was determined by the Outfeed table on the Planer and my rolling assembly table - both in the same plane.

I got away with just a 3' hose from the planer to the DC.
For my Chop Saw, I just roll this table over to the CS and unplug hose from the planer and add a smaller diameter hose to it with a shop vac accessory for sucking the dust out of the chop saw box I made around it. .

 

[noveske]

Here is a cart I made for my Dewalt Planer and my Ryobi? Dust collector. The length of the cart was determined by the Dust Collector and the inflated bag. The height was determined by the Outfeed table on the Planer and my rolling assembly table - both in the same plane.
View attachment 445008 View attachment 445009 View attachment 445010 View attachment 445011
I got away with just a 3' hose from the planer to the DC.
For my Chop Saw, I just roll this table over to the CS and unplug hose from the planer and add a smaller diameter hose to it with a shop vac accessory for sucking the dust out of the chop saw box I made around it. .

Which Wen unit is that? WEN DC3474?