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Delta 14" Bandsaw Resilient Ring Mishap

1719 Views 50 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  woodnthings
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I have a so-called Platinum Delta 14" band saw 28-263 that I bought some years ago at an auction. The other week it started dogging during the cut. I didn't immediately realize what had happened. But after spending probably 40 minutes cutting I got tired of having to keep letting the motor regain it's speed. When I decided to change the blade even though it still felt sharp to my hand I decided to open the base. What I found was surprising. The motor was hanging by the belt. What had happed was that the resilient ring which holds the motor to the mount broke through the casing for some reason. But it didn't even make a sound to let me know that something had changed.
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Anyway I looked around to find a replacement resilient ring and from everything I had read they were supposed to be a real pain to install and everyone was saying that if you used a screwdriver you were going to shorten it's life. That left me looking for some alternate method of sliding on the ring and pushing back the tabs which were rubber so it could go onto the motor. It seemed like I would need something like a metal or plastic piece, something smooth to prevent hanging, that was literally the size of the resilient ring with the tabs removed on the one end and a somewhat smaller side to get it started to slide it up onto the motor. Turned out that was not an easy thing to find and wood would have to be something that was very slippery from some type coating to prevent the rubber ring tabs from hanging. I looked at plumb bobs they were the closet thing I could think of that might work except mine wasn't the right size and it would have to have the round top cut flat to mate up against the motor. I finally decided the hell with it's longevity this was proving to just be a pita. I sat down and just used my fingers and literally had it installed in maybe 3 minutes.

When I went to remount the motor I found out it didn't fit the motor mount. The mount has 2 prongs that go around the resilient rings on each side. But the width was different. The motor was shorter than the mount. The motor appeared original and the motor mount as well and so I torqued the motor across the mount by pulling it towards the side that had failed. Because of the rubber rings it had enough play to allow me to get it on both sides of the mount but as soon as I started the bandsaw up the new resilient ring exploded. I assumed that since it had worked with the setup in it that it must be correct and therefore went forward,.

So I got the second resilient ring and installed it and as I was trying to mount the motor it ended like the photo below. The rubber literally came out of the ring on the side that was still attached. That was when I decided not to blow up another one and see if I could get some answers.



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I decided to measure the mount and the motor and what I found out was I have 1/2" difference between the 2 parts. That didn't seem right to me and so I contacted Delta tech support to find out if something was wrong. However, what I found out was tech support just referred me to their service centers. There are 2 within an hours drive from me both in opposite directions but they suggested that I call first and so I did. The first one said we fix motors. I said so you can't sell me or get me a part or even specs? We service motors and I've told Delta that time and again. OK so maybe just a bad situation. I called the 2nd place. I was transferred 4 times to some guy that supposedly had some understanding of their role with Delta. He told me that as far as he knew that Delta had gone out of business. Again I asked so you don't have any parts in bins, diagrams or specifications in binders, etc,? We don't have anything in fact we don't even sell Delta. OK.. So I learned that Delta, although it had apparently had some type of contract in place for these firms has never visited any of them and gave them a list of expectations as to how they wanted their customers treated or how many parts they should be maintaining etc. I reported all this back to Delta tech support suggesting that they probably should be telling these companies what they expected from them but now that they knew there was no resolutions coming from them I needed to get the specs on the length of the motor and the mount from them. But they told me they don't have any specifications available to them. How on God's green earth did they ever become the company they once were and not have a single exploded part diagram or parts being manufactured for replacement or specifications for torqueing bolts that hold motors?

Sorry about the "story" but I'm so frustrated and I don't really know how to resolve this other than to do what I think is correct and taking the mount which is one solid piece and having it cut down the middle extracting 1/2" to match the motor and then having it welded back together which at a machine shop is probably going to be maybe $150.. I would just feel better about doing this fix if someone out there could tell me that they should both be the same length because they checked their own machine. Of course that would require dismounting the motor from the mount to find out. I mean they could have purposely made them so that the torqueing across the larger mount was part of the noise silencing theory but I don't want to do such a radical change to the mount and then find out that no other motor will fit because they can't even tell me if I have the right motor or the right mount. Maybe I should get a replacement motor with more HP instead assuming that the motor which is a Delta motor was replaced incorrectly already.

Anyone out there a Delta specialist that doesn't work for Delta?
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A question for you. My motor is listed as a frame 56 yet has the ear mount but shouldn't there be another frame # for the ear mount? I thought the whole point of the frame number was to insure you have the correct mount?
A question for you. My motor is listed as a frame 56 yet has the ear mount but shouldn't there be another frame # for the ear mount? I thought the whole point of the frame number was to insure you have the correct mount?
It's my understanding that the frame 56 means the bolt pattern and flat base will fit that bolt pattern for all those applications.
It may not mean the "type" of base, as in your case?

I just got off the phone with Lloyd's Electric in Ferndale, Mi, my "go to source" for electric motors.
He said 2 years ago he got rid of all the resisliant rubber mounted motor bases as those motors were being phased out.
The solution he mentioned was a scrap yard. My solution was a Flea Market in the summer when it's warmer.
As a last resort I suggested to cut away 1/2" and weld it back together, as I posted way back. He agreed that would work.
He also said the price of motors has gone way up, from $75 to $200 -$300.

My local Flea Market claims to have 20 tool vendors and the largest in Michigan

Maybe local pawn shops, at least one near me had a Rigid 10" table saw and motor on the floor for a very long time, probably sold low.
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If anyone is interested the link in post #42 states this:
A motor’s frame size is a reference to the size of the mounting footprint, shaft diameter, and shaft length. These motors are all frame size 56. In terms of mounting, these motors can replace each other and other motors with the same frame size.
CityguyUSA , Check your Conversations.
No reason to get angry. But there's no point in fixing the mount because I'm not planning on buying a motor to fit the mount.
No reason to get angry. But there's no point in fixing the mount because I'm not planning on buying a motor to fit the mount.
I wasn't anrgy, just frustrated that you seemed stuck between a rock and hard place and no solutions were forth coming, just jabber.
So I offered to cut and weld it for you, at not cost other than shipping.
That seemed like a decent deal to me?

That makes no sense.
If I fix the mount you have, you don't need to buy a new motor because we are shortening the original mount to fit the original motor.
YES?
I wasn't anrgy, just frustrated that you seemed stuck between a rock and hard place and no solutions were forth coming, just jabber.
So I offered to cut and weld it for you, at not cost other than shipping.
That seemed like a decent deal to me?

That makes no sense.
If I fix the mount you have, you don't need to buy a new motor because we are shortening the original mount to fit the original motor.
YES?
That would be true but because the saw was dogging during a cut instead of slipping the pulleys that seemed to indicate to me something had happened to the motor. The saw was stalling on the smallest turn and it was hardly cutting even on a straight cut. Just to go an 1/8" would take forever and it kept stalling requiring me to keep having to back off. I put a new blade on and nothing improved. At first I attributed it to dense wood plus a thick 5" cut and an older thin blade. Usually the stuff I cut is mostly straight cuts in soft materials and maybe 1/2 thick at most. This wasn't a setup that I had done but maybe once or twice before but I knew something was off. A 3-inch cut took over 1/2 an hour and ultimately was the reason I opened the base but I never expected what I found. The motor was hanging by the belt which would explain why it wasn't cutting but not why it was stalling. Rather than stalling I would have expected a good motor to slip the belt.

From there I got the replacement resilient ring put it on after being told not to use a screw driver on it and stabbing one's hands, etc and I was trying to figure out how I was going to install it. In the end I gave up trying to find some method to slowly retract the nubs and just used my hands and had it on in a few minutes. Then when I tried to put the motor back on I realized that mount was a different width than the motor but because I had been using that way for over 2 years I thought maybe that's the way it was supposed to be. After I got the motor back on the mount it immediately broke the brand new resilient ring so much for resiliency.

When I tried to talk to Delta about the setup they weren't able to give me any direction except to call their service centers which had no information either. As I said early on I don't have a lot of experience diagnosing motors but I'm very good at logic. Before I thought about the motor and how it was acting under a load I was trying to figure out if the motor was wrongly 9.5" or if the mount should be 9.5". Since no one can tell me what's right it seemed prudent to think about the motor itself before I went making changes to a mount which appears in all reality to be original but now I can't explain why they two are not in sync nor even if they should be in sync. It's only 3 people's opinions that one or the other needs to change but since I think there's an issue with the motor, and feel free to chime in on my motor analysis, but it makes more sense to me just to get a new motor that will come with a mount attached that I won't have to question than to spend more money on an older motor and even if my thinking is wrong I won't have to be wondering if the existing setup is destructive or not.


Yes I do sometimes get stuck and overthinking things but that's me. My career was computers and that served me very well and it prevents me from making rash decisions which is why most of the software these days is total crap because they'd rather cram it into production and fix it later which ends up costing twice as much than missing some arbitrary deadline.
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As I said early on I don't have a lot of experience diagnosing motors but I'm very good at logic. Before I thought about the motor and how it was acting under a load I was trying to figure out if the motor was wrongly 9.5" or if the mount should be 9.5". Since no one can tell me what's right it seemed prudent to think about the motor itself before I went making changes to a mount which appears in all reality to be original but now I can't explain why they two are not in sync nor even if they should be in sync
Yes, the issue could be either the motor or the mount being the incorrect length.
It would be easy enough to measure the distance between the resiliant rubber rings when installed in their respective locations and the width of the mount between the two ring supports. The fact that the rings failed suggests the distance was not a match. Those rings will last a lifetime of normal use.
But if oil soaked or incorrectly mounted they will tear apart and fail.

An easy way to test the motor's power is to install the pulley and center a 36" long 1/2" dowel in the "V" groove and bear down it with a firm grip with both gloved hands. Rather than a dowel you could use a piece of wood 1/2" or 3/8" thick in the same manner.
In my case, I have used a heavy glove and just begin to grasp the pulley, knowing full well it wants to spin inside the glove, but I'm prepared to let go instantly.
I am pretty experienced with all types of motors, drive belts and welding gloves, but I know my limitations after many years of experience.
If it stalls immediately, then it's probably junk and not worth spending any more effort on.
It if continues to spin with considerable down force then it's probably fine.
There are motor dynamometers of course, but you are not going to have one in your shop.

I think I recommended or you suggested? to take the motor to a repair shop for them to test and check it out.
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Yes, the issue could be either the motor or the mount being the incorrect length.
It would be easy enough to measure the distance between the resiliant rubber rings when installed in their respective locations and the width of the mount between the two ring supports. The fact that the rings failed suggests the distance was not a match. Those rings will last a lifetime of normal use.
But if oil soaked or incorrectly mounted they will tear apart and fail.

An easy way to test the motor's power is to install the pulley and center a 36" long 1/2" dowel in the "V" groove and bear down it with a firm grip with both gloved hands. Rather than a dowel you could use a piece of wood 1/2" or 3/8" thick in the same manner.
In my case, I have used a heavy glove and just begin to grasp the pulley, knowing full well it wants to spin inside the glove, but I'm prepared to let go instantly.
I am pretty experienced with all types of motors, drive belts and welding gloves, but I know my limitations after many years of experience.
If it stalls immediately, then it's probably junk and not worth spending any more effort on.
It if continues to spin with considerable down force then it's probably fine.
There are motor dynamometers of course, but you are not going to have one in your shop.

I think I recommended or you suggested? to take the motor to a repair shop for them to test and check it out.
Yes I was thinking of having it tested but because the mount and the motor are out of whack it just seems like more money chasing bad. I might call and ask how much they charge for a diagnostic but I can't imagine it would be less than $100 so that's already 1/3 or so towards a new motor. Fixing the mount would be probably $50 in shipping even accepting your gracious offer. I mean a certified letter is all but $10 now and it weighs less than an ounce. It used to be that FEDX and UPS charged $10 for overnight delivery but I think they are almost up to $20 for a letter.

I don't have any issue grabbing the pully I'm not sure I follow the whole idea with the dowel in the keyway. Any motor can be fixed it's just a matter if your willing to do it yourself or pay someone to rewind it. I had an old furnace motor that had been through a flood that I put away in a cabinet and about 10 years later the motor I bought to replace that died. I asked the repair guy how much for a motor he told me I think $700 I new he was gouging and I told him to use the motor I had from the flood. He connected it up and sat it on the concrete trying to convince me that the noise was the motor and I said pick it up off the concrete and that noise will stop. They're all shysters' anymore. I had been with them for 20 years and that's how they're going to treat me? And this was the owner. Not really anyone to complain to until I'm willing to make a move. I do like their plumbers I think most of them have treated me fair. I even bought my last replacement A/C system from them a 4 ton for $4000 you'd think they'd appreciate my business. Anyway he asked if he could have the old motor, I wasn't going to rewind it and if he wanted to that was fine with me. The thing is I know he's going to sell it to someone as new for $700. Had I thought of that at the time I probably should have kept it just to protect someone else.
Yes, the issue could be either the motor or the mount being the incorrect length.
It would be easy enough to measure the distance between the resiliant rubber rings when installed in their respective locations and the width of the mount between the two ring supports. The fact that the rings failed suggests the distance was not a match. Those rings will last a lifetime of normal use.
But if oil soaked or incorrectly mounted they will tear apart and fail.

An easy way to test the motor's power is to install the pulley and center a 36" long 1/2" dowel in the "V" groove and bear down it with a firm grip with both gloved hands. Rather than a dowel you could use a piece of wood 1/2" or 3/8" thick in the same manner.
In my case, I have used a heavy glove and just begin to grasp the pulley, knowing full well it wants to spin inside the glove, but I'm prepared to let go instantly.
I am pretty experienced with all types of motors, drive belts and welding gloves, but I know my limitations after many years of experience.
If it stalls immediately, then it's probably junk and not worth spending any more effort on.
It if continues to spin with considerable down force then it's probably fine.
There are motor dynamometers of course, but you are not going to have one in your shop.

I think I recommended or you suggested? to take the motor to a repair shop for them to test and check it out.
I've talked about the difference many times. The motor is 9.5" and the mount is 10". Delta can't tell me if it's correct or not, neither can the service centers. Delta used to sell it as an assembly so it was already mounted on the mount and you just had to put the mount into the base which in an enclosed base is a pain. They used to mount them on top of the base in the back. That makes sense. It's easy to get to and you always know what's going on probably not quite as safe. Once it's inside that base you loose that connection of seeing it and knowing it's working properly.

I have noticed while I've been searching for a motor that most resilient ring motors are under 1hp. I'm not searching for them just come across them occasionally. For a 1hp and above you have to go to Baldor, Marathon, etc. the name brands and they are over $1K for a 1725 rpm. This 1hp 1725 rpm frame 56 motor is a rarity. I'm going to go down and wire it up and see if I can stop it with my hand. I suspect I can. I've already contacted a motor testing company and explained my symptoms and they're going to give me a price for a diagnostic.

I just came across a man selling used cradle mounts he has a 9 1/2 for $37.90 incl s&h. I'd have to verify the diameter but it's there if I need it. A path I only came across when I wanted to see the frame number for these cradle mounts. They don't sell them by width or length but by SKU. Searching on 9 1/2" won't get you were you need to go. I see frame 42, 48, K56, 56H, 48Z, If I go to a 3450 RPM the price comes down which seems a bit strange to me and I'd have to replace the drive pulley as well. Any drawback to having a faster RPM motor?
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The dowel in the "V" groove was to keep your hands far away from the spinning pulley, but in the next sentence I explained how I would use a heavy glove and just start to grasp the pulley to see how much torque it had. That was a DIY test on the motor.
The rest is the measurement of the difference in the mounts as we discussed. By all means find a used mount the proper length.
The diameter of the rings should be the same for a same diameter shaft motor.
The order of proceeding is as follows:
Test the motor, by DIY or repair shop.
Find a used base with ring mounts with the same base bolt pattern OR..
Cut the 1/2" put of the length and weld it together.
Reinstall and test.

I think USPS has a "if it fit, is ships" box at a very low cost, under $10.00, but I could be wrong?
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