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Delaminating Baltic Birch plywood

4K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  Rebelwork 
#1 ·
Recently I've been making some drawers and some other stuff out of 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood. I wanted something basic and fairly inexpensive to fill in the base for my mini lathe for storage. I have had some serious trouble with a layer or two delaminating as I was trying to use it...especially when I was cutting box joints. I made a jig for the box joints, and it was new so it had a solid backer board for the cuts...exactly the same size as the notch. I also switched to a new Freud 40t blade...just in case my old blade was causing some of the trouble, (this would have been for blocking out my boxes, etc., not cutting the notches) I noticed that it delaminated on one side of the plywood much more than the other. But with my box joints, after I had cut my pieces, I couldn't control which side I fed first...even if I could have figured out which side was the trouble just by looking at it. Some of my cuts delaminated in spots, which makes me think it was the plywood rather than my setup or blades....but school me.

Anyways, I seem to remember a thread not too long ago where someone was speaking about poor quality BB ply (possibly from China instead of Russia?) and I was wondering...how can I tell when I am buying this from my lumber supplier? Can I ask about brands? If so, what brand would I want to avoid, or what brand would I want to buy? I am getting ready to make some cabinets, and I don't want to have this issue again, although I didn't have as much of a problem with the cuts...mainly the notches for the box joints. I have seen or heard of people making drawer boxes with only BB...shouldn't I be able to do that without major layers coming off? Maybe my dado set needs sharpening or cleaning? (This happened on some of the cuts for the pieces too, not just the notches for the box joints.)
I'm hoping some of you guys with more experience with plywood can offer some advice. I'm not really very experienced, and I don't work with plywood much...but I have several projects in the near future that I want to use Baltic Birch on.

Thanks in advance!

Brad

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#3 ·
Thanks Yomanbill. Yes, I switched to some rabbits on some other joints and had better luck....but I am still not very happy about the delamination. This is not just simple tearout..this is layers of the plywood that are not fully joined together. I will certainly take your advice into consideration though. Like I said, I have a lot to learn.

Brad
 
#5 ·
It's probably a fluke. I've been using baltic birch for more than 45 years and have only seen one small defect in one sheet. Plywood just doesn't get any better than baltic birch. They may just have had a bad batch of it. If the sheet was 5'x5' I'm sure it came from Russia.
 
#7 ·
Could be. I've never seen this before...at least not in BB. But again, this is the amateur hour here. I don't have much experience with that.

I could have sworn I saw a thread here not too long ago about some junk Baltic Birch possibly coming from China. I can't seem to find the thread, but I wanted to know if I was missing something. Maybe I need to find a different supplier. Usually, if something goes wrong in my shop, I know who to blame. ...maybe I am just looking for excuses.

Brad
 
#6 ·
Huh. When I bought this stuff, it was ONLY available 60" x 60", and I had them cut them down to 30" x 60" so that I could carry them easier. I think that is the way it comes from the supplier, but one of the local stores around here cuts them to 30" before they sell them anyways. I want to check into the different grades thing. That may be the solution to my problem.

Thanks Doc.
 
#8 ·
I think you definitely have some defective plywood. Not sure what the answer for you is other than work something out with your supplier. Having already used it, that may be difficult but, you might get him to give you a partial refund if you can convince him of the defect. It sounds like a defect in the lamination glue. I would think twice about going back to that supplier again (and let him know it).
 
#9 ·
One of our local lumberyards sells multiple kinds of many-layer birch plywood. I learned a few things from them:

  • Baltic Birch comes in 60 x 60 inch sheets. (I am not sure, but I wonder if it is a metric equivalent?)
  • Actual thicknesses are slightly less than 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4 inch as shown on the labels. They are metric "equivalents." You can buy undersize plywood router bits to match them.
  • Baltic Birch comes in different letter grades, which correspond to how the two faces may be patched.
  • Russian Birch is similar, but sold in standard 4 x 8 foot sheets. Pricing is comparable. The last time I was there, the Baltic Birch was slightly cheaper per board foot than the Russian Birch, to my surprise.
 
#10 ·
I will certainly talk to the guys at the yard, but I wanted to do some research on my own before I spoke to them. There is also another place that sells hardwood that I can buy Baltic Birch from if I need to. Again, I wanted to educate myself on this a bit before I got too far.

Thanks for the input!
 
#11 ·
Just for comparison and information purposes, I recently purchased some high count ply from my local big box. If I remember correctly, It was 11 plies for 3/4". It was not birch and the outer veneer was thin but, other than that, it worked very well for the cabinets I was building. I had no issues with ply separation. I bought it with some concern but, I was happy in the end.
 
#12 ·
Did you purchase your Baltic Birch from Lowes or Home Depot? They carry a very low grade of everything including Baltic Birch.
I even saw Home Depot carrying Marine Plywood in my area. When I saw thw boards I thought it was a joke.
 
#13 ·
Hey Tony,

No, I bought it from a lumberyard...specifically a hardwood dealer. I've never seen BB at Lowes, and I haven't looked for it at the Depot.

Follow up - they sell it...kinda sorta....12"x24" and 24"x48" pieces.

Brad
 
#14 ·
I know Home Depot carries it so I assume Lowes did also.
Unfortunately, I have to travel almost an hour through Houston, Tx traffic to get to my favorite hardwoods supplier. They are worth the trip. I only go to the box stores if I need a few 2 x 4's for construction stuff like major shelf units in the shop.

Anyway, back to your problem. I would take some of the delaminated pieces to where you bought the ply and maybe the supplier will make good for it. Ya neva know.
 
#15 ·
Thanks Tony,

I think the big box stores have different selections for different regions.

I plan on speaking to the lumber supplier the next time I make a purchase, but what I really wanted to do was to educate myself with what might be available so that I knew more about what I was speaking about when I went back to confront them. Also, whether or not there was a specific brand that I should look for or stay away from. I'm probably going to go back to the other shop that I was using at some point.
The next time I go in, I'm going to speak to them about the grades available, but I have a feeling that the grades will refer more to the number/size of knot holes plugged or the finish sanding.

Cheers!


Brad
 
#16 ·
Are you sure this is baltic Birch as opposed to some other kind of birch?
Usually BB 3/4" has 11 to 13 full sheet layers, not separate slices on the insides.
Dont know if they are still in business but years ago I used to buy something called "ApplePly". It was exactly like BB except it was made in USA and more importantly, it came in 4 x 8 sheets.
 
#17 ·
No, Tony, actually, I'm not...but I asked them for Baltic Birch when I ordered it. How would I know? I'll have to count the layers...I bought a few sheets of 1/2" and one sheet of 3/4". They were both 60" x 60" before I had them cut them in half so they would fit inside of my truck bed.

"Usually BB 3/4" has 11 to 13 full sheet layers, not separate slices on the insides."
What do you mean by this?

Maybe it is just baltic birch surfaced on the outer layers??

Brad
 
#18 ·
Home Depot (per their website) does not carry Baltic Birch plywood. They do carry birch plywood, which is not the same stuff.

All the BB that I've seen and purchased came in 5x5 sheets, but it seems it does come in 4x8 and 5x10 sheets too. Here's a link to one suppliers specs for BB: https://wolstenholme.com/pdf/Baltic Birch Plywood Specifications.pdf
 
#19 ·
Last time I actually looked at HD for BB was about 8 years ago. they actually had the 5x5 panels in Kemah, Texas. At the time I saw it was because someone had told me about it. I checked it out and was not about to buy any from them. my best guess is at the time they bought it from Houston Hardwoods. At the same time, another local lumber yard started carrying it. Anyway, I am not a HomeDepot guy
I never heard of Baltic Birch coming in any size other than 5 x 5, that dont mean it doesn't. When I needed standard 4 x 8 sheets, I used to buy ApplyPly. Same layers and quality as BB. I havent bought any of that in about 20 years or so.
I will be buying some BB soon for drawer sides.
 
#20 ·
Baltic birch has come in many sizes. 60x60,48x60,48x96,24x48. 30x60...

When they manufacture this stuff they have errors. They cut them till they have bundles and sell them...

When I call and say I need 5×5 if it's available I get asked if I'm interest at a discounted price. For drawers all sizes are good...
 
#21 ·
Brad, for starters, I have been making BB drawer bodies with dovetailed joints and box joints for many years. Your setup will not cause de-lamination, at least, not in a good piece of BB. The BB is almost certainly at fault here. As with any other product, there are many manufacturers and they don't all practice the same quality control.

Regarding what Tony said about Apple Ply, I will just note that it is not exactly the same as Baltic Birch. It has a maple veneer with alder core. Decades ago when it first hit the market, a hardwood dealer told me the story behind the name was, "it's got a maple face, and an alder core, what could be more American than that?", so they named it apple ply. As in, "as American as apple pie".
 
#22 ·
Brad, for starters, I have been making BB drawer bodies with dovetailed joints and box joints for many years. Your setup will not cause de-lamination, at least, not in a good piece of BB. The BB is almost certainly at fault here. As with any other product, there are many manufacturers and they don't all practice the same quality control.

Regarding what Tony said about Apple Ply, I will just note that it is not exactly the same as Baltic Birch. It has a maple veneer with alder core. Decades ago when it first hit the market, a hardwood dealer told me the story behind the name was, "it's got a maple face, and an alder core, what could be more American than that?", so they named it apple ply. As in, "as American as apple pie".
It shouldn't but he could have a defective sheet...
 
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