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No Longer Here, BY CHOICE
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As many know, Im amidst a project of restoring 2 old Emerson made Craftsman table saws and putting both of them into a table saw work center. While I was tearing down one of the saws today and contiplating what exactly I want in this satation, it occured to me that Im dumping a whole bunch of money into this project. About $1200 when its done.

So I started having other thoughts. Thoughts that maybe I should just buy a brand new G1023 instead. If I did that I wouldnt have the router station included without extra money. Then I saw a thread with 3 used cabinet saws. If I went that route, I could include the router station and come in under budget.

If I was to change course, I figure Ill still go ahead with the restore on these two old Craftsmans and then sell them. I dunno what someone might pay for one of these old saws restored but Id be happy to get my money back on em.

So, thoughts? I really dont know which way I should go at this point. I have too many options and I cant think, lol. What would you do and why?

Yes, I have 220 in the shop. No I havnt explored whats available on the used market in my area yet.
 

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I think if your going to spend 1200 bucks, you'd be foolish to not put it into a high end used saw. How much do you have into these right now, because in good shape your unlikely to get more than 250 each out of them.
 

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I actually looked over your old posts, but that didn't help. What is a table saw work center, and how is it better than one good saw?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I think if your going to spend 1200 bucks, you'd be foolish to not put it into a high end used saw. How much do you have into these right now, because in good shape your unlikely to get more than 250 each out of them.
I think that may be the way Im leaning. I asked my wife what she thought and her reply was I think you should get whatever you want so you can stop working on tools and actually work on the list of projects I have for you. Lol.

Im into these two saws right now for about $250 and I still need to buy bearings to finish the restore. If i was to opt to finish these and sell them, they would go with the stock fences. I had planned to put a T2 on my workcenter but I havnt purchased one yet since no one has any in stock.
I actually looked over your old posts, but that didn't help. What is a table saw work center, and how is it better than one good saw?
I work center is just a large cabinet with the saw installed as part of the cabinet and a router table station on the right end. The idea came about because I picked up a saw really cheap, then decided why not put two of em in there and never have to change the blades. Then today, I thought, gheesh, I sure am dropping alot of cash into this project when I could just buy a cabinet saw and be done with it.
 

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That's the problem I have. I have plenty of skills to do restorations of tools...but I'd rather spend my time woodworking. I spent all of my free time last week rebuilding my radial arm saw....and didn't get to do any woodworking. I've got an old delta band saw that needs rebuilding, but it will take time away from other stuff.

I'd throw the bearings into your saws, whip them back together, and get hunting for one cabinet saw. Changing out the blades isn't that bad...I'm down to about 30-40 seconds for a blade change and I'm back to cutting.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I should also add that the router station portion of the workcenter is about $500 of the cost. I dont really want to scrap that because I need a router station. The saw portion plus materials to actually build the workcenter is $750 to $800 of my cost so thats where I would need to be on a used saw and stay in budget.

If I can find a nice saw in that price range I can build a router wing or a seperate router table and still make my router station a reality. I cant deal with this crappy Craftsman table and router I have anymore. I have to upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That's the problem I have. I have plenty of skills to do restorations of tools...but I'd rather spend my time woodworking. I spent all of my free time last week rebuilding my radial arm saw....and didn't get to do any woodworking. I've got an old delta band saw that needs rebuilding, but it will take time away from other stuff.

I'd throw the bearings into your saws, whip them back together, and get hunting for one cabinet saw. Changing out the blades isn't that bad...I'm down to about 30-40 seconds for a blade change and I'm back to cutting.
I hear ya. Between work and working on tools, Ive done very little woodworking at all the past few months with the exception of a few small lathe projects.
 

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For that kind of money I'd go with a cabinet saw in a heartbeat, but it really boils down to your preferences. Assuming a well tuned saw, you'll never be able to tell which saw cut a piece of wood by looking at the wood, but you'll definitely be able to notice which saw your using while cutting it..... :yes:

If you just want to cut wood for family projects, you don't NEED a cabinet saw, but with that said, I really enjoy having one.
 

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I'm building a stand alone router table with a lift and 2.5hp router for just under 500.....

If it were me....I'd buy a saw and go that route. How far are you willing to drive for a good saw?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Depends how good the deal was I guess. I have driven a couple hours one way to pick up items in the passed. Id probably go further, just depends.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm building a stand alone router table with a lift and 2.5hp router for just under 500.....

If it were me....I'd buy a saw and go that route. How far are you willing to drive for a good saw?
Im leaning toward the Triton TRA 001, 3 1/4 HP router with the Woodpeckers plate and inserts. That all combined is right at $500. Building a wing with dust collection would be very little. Right now, I dont have a need for a router that big but I figure Ill have the power if I ever do. It also has very good ratings for adjustments without a lift.
 

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your budget?

As someone with 3 table saws connected with a router table extension, I know a thing about this type of setup. Two of the saws I bought new in the late '80's and the 3rd I found on C-L recently for $186.00. They all are the rather rare 12" Craftsman motorized saws. You are correct, the PC 7518 Router, Jess em Master Lift 2 and Bench Dog cast iron extension did cost just under $1000.00.

It's the cabinet and restoration budget I am having trouble with. Bearings for both saws ... $25.00 at most.... plywood for the table surround $150.00 or so..... new fence anywhere from $250 to $400 with rails for a Biesemeyer. So a total of $600.00 by my estimation.

What you won't have if you get a cabinet saw is the surrounding table and outfeed support. You will still need that to efficiently support the size panels and plywood sheets a cabinet saw will handle, that won't change.

If space and budget were not HUGE concerns then I would not know what to do for sure either. I do absolutely love the idea of not changing blades, especially the dado set which is a Royal pain.
I use a 24 T rip on the left, a 40 T in the center and a Oshlun dado set on the right. I am building a jointer base for a friend with separate boxes with dados for the shelves and rabbets for the sides and back. It is a snap to make them using all the saws and fences.

Lola Ranch and mdntrdr are two others WWT members that have 2 saws in a large table and both have large spaces to work in. If I recall Bret's main saw is a Grizzly cabinet saw also.

I would not count on getting much for your restored saws. What I would do is get the new Grizzly cabinet saw, make a large table surround and incorporate one of the other saws either in the back facing the "wrong" way or along side like I have.

If you don't do a lot of cabinets or work with large panels, then the table surround would not be all that necessary in my opinion. However a good outfeed support is vital for not only panels but longer stock when ripping. The typical roller stands just won't work that well.

I did not mention I also have a 12" Powermatic saw with the fold down outfeed roller support which was my "main" saw for heavy ripping. I don't/can't use that saw at the moment because it is in storage in a different and very crowded shop. It is an awesome saw, smooth and scary powerful, with a great Biesemeyer fence. It's way more saw than I need for the type of work I do now. I most cut stock under 2" thick and don't need the 12" capacity or the power.

I think one of the main advantages of a new saw will be the ease of which you can remove the guard and splitter and replace them quickly. Of course the power and a long rail and fence will be a joy to use. I happen to feel the fence is the heart of the table saw and I use my tape and the cursor regularly without measuring. It's dead on and that's how I set it.

Ok, that's the story as I see it. :yes:
 
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You've got 220v and the budget, so I'd guess the deciding factor is how interested you are in a cabinet saw. "Need" by itself didn't justify buying a 3hp cabinet saw for me. If you view your woodworking tools like I do my screwdrivers and pliers, it'd be a definite "no go", but my saw and wood shop tools mean alot more to me than just tools. I suppose it's akin to owning a nice classic car....it's more than transportation.

What will you notice realistically? I suppose it depends on the saw you get to some degree. My GI contractor saw and 22124 hybrid were both capable of doing all that I asked of them, but a deal on a Shop Fox cabinet saw pushed me over the edge. The differences I notice are just about every aspect you can think of from a users perspective. The mechanisms work smoothly as they should....there's added mass and leverage from the larger handwheels, and the gearing is better. Everything is heavier duty....an additional 150-200# of mass are definitely noticeable. When I crank the blade up, I notice how well the big polished chrome handwheels move in comparison to my former saws. From the moment I hit the start button, the motor snaps into motion with noticeably more ambition in a shorter period time....it's just about instant. The saw is a lot less fussy about which blade I'm using too... I need to push things pretty hard to remotely slow the blade...in normal use, it never waivers a bit. With my GI and Cman saws, I needed to monitor my feed rate more closely to avoid lugging....not so with the Shop Fox....I go at my pace. I also find some peace of mind knowing that I'm not pushing the saw very hard, and that it should last for several lifetimes with minimal maintenance. With my contractor saw and hybrid, I was more concerned with their long term well being. HTH.
 

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The nice thing about your dual-saw plan is that you have the personal satisfaction of knowing you built it - and showing others what you built. Plus you get to put something together to your own plans and standards.

Fixing up old used power tools to resell doesn't sound like a plan that would have a lot of profit margin. I've restored a few but I was under no illusion that I'd make money out of the process. I did it for the fun and sense of accomplishment (and to have a good tool!).

Heck, you already have the two saws. My vote is to go for it!

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #18
As someone with 3 table saws connected with a router table extension, I know a thing about this type of setup. Two of the saws I bought new in the late '80's and the 3rd I found on C-L recently for $186.00. They all are the rather rare 12" Craftsman motorized saws. You are correct, the PC 7518 Router, Jess em Master Lift 2 and Bench Dog cast iron extension did cost just under $1000.00.

It's the cabinet and restoration budget I am having trouble with. Bearings for both saws ... $25.00 at most.... plywood for the table surround $150.00 or so..... new fence anywhere from $250 to $400 with rails for a Biesemeyer. So a total of $600.00 by my estimation.

What you won't have if you get a cabinet saw is the surrounding table and outfeed support. You will still need that to efficiently support the size panels and plywood sheets a cabinet saw will handle, that won't change.

If space and budget were not HUGE concerns then I would not know what to do for sure either. I do absolutely love the idea of not changing blades, especially the dado set which is a Royal pain.
I use a 24 T rip on the left, a 40 T in the center and a Oshlun dado set on the right. I am building a jointer base for a friend with separate boxes with dados for the shelves and rabbets for the sides and back. It is a snap to make them using all the saws and fences.

Lola Ranch and mdntrdr are two others WWT members that have 2 saws in a large table and both have large spaces to work in. If I recall Bret's main saw is a Grizzly cabinet saw also.

I would not count on getting much for your restored saws. What I would do is get the new Grizzly cabinet saw, make a large table surround and incorporate one of the other saws either in the back facing the "wrong" way or along side like I have.

If you don't do a lot of cabinets or work with large panels, then the table surround would not be all that necessary in my opinion. However a good outfeed support is vital for not only panels but longer stock when ripping. The typical roller stands just won't work that well.

I did not mention I also have a 12" Powermatic saw with the fold down outfeed roller support which was my "main" saw for heavy ripping. I don't/can't use that saw at the moment because it is in storage in a different and very crowded shop. It is an awesome saw, smooth and scary powerful, with a great Biesemeyer fence. It's way more saw than I need for the type of work I do now. I most cut stock under 2" thick and don't need the 12" capacity or the power.

I think one of the main advantages of a new saw will be the ease of which you can remove the guard and splitter and replace them quickly. Of course the power and a long rail and fence will be a joy to use. I happen to feel the fence is the heart of the table saw and I use my tape and the cursor regularly without measuring. It's dead on and that's how I set it.

Ok, that's the story as I see it. :yes:
But your forgetting all the little things and the little things really add up. Im into the saws for $250 now. That includes the new belt kits that I allready paid for. Add $180 for a T2, Bearings $25, ZCI's $50, paddle switches $45, blades $60. Now were at $600 bucks and we havnt even purchased material for the surround and it would have a laminate top. Id also need drawer slides and floor levelers and other hardware. Im just taking a WAG and saying I can pick all that up for about $200. Now were at $800 plus the $500 I need to spend for the router station.

Yes space and budget are a concern. The router station has to happen. Im fed up with my current set up so that leaves 700 to 800 for the saw. A new saw is out of the question I think and even if I go with a used cabinet saw, I cant build a surround anywhere close to the extremes that those guys have. Putting all this stuff into one workcenter put in into a unit thats roughly 72" wide and 36" deep with an addition outfeed thats mobile.

I still havnt completely abandoned this idea. Just second guessing myself.

You've got 220v and the budget, so I'd guess the deciding factor is how interested you are in a cabinet saw. "Need" by itself didn't justify buying a 3hp cabinet saw. If you view your woodworking tools like I do my screwdrivers and pliers, it'd be a no go, but the love of my shop and tools could. I suppose it's akin to owning a nice classic car....it's more than transportation.

What will you notice realistically? I suppose it depends on the saw you get to some degree. My GI contractor saw and 22124 hybrid were both capable of doing all that I asked of them, but a deal on a Shop Fox cabinet saw pushed me over the edge. The differences I notice are just about every aspect you can think of from a users perspective. The mechanisms work smoothly as they should....there's added mass and leverage from the larger handwheels, and the gearing is better. Everything is heavier duty....an additional 150-200# of mass are definitely noticeable. When I crank the blade up, I notice how well the big polished chrome handwheels move in comparison to my former saws. From the moment I hit the start button, the motor snaps into motion with noticeably more ambition in a shorter period time....it's just about instant. The saw is a lot less fussy about which blade I'm using too... I need to push things pretty hard to remotely slow the blade...in normal use, it never waivers a bit. With my GI and Cman saws, I needed to monitor my feed rate more closely to avoid lugging....not so with the Shop Fox....I go at my pace. I also find some peace of mind knowing that I'm not pushing the saw very hard, and that it should last for several lifetimes with minimal maintenance. With my contractor saw and hybrid, I was more concerned with their long term well being. HTH.
Technically, I dont need a cabinet saw. These contractor saws will do everything I need them to do.

The nice thing about your dual-saw plan is that you have the personal satisfaction of knowing you built it - and showing others what you built. Plus you get to put something together to your own plans and standards.

Fixing up old used power tools to resell doesn't sound like a plan that would have a lot of profit margin. I've restored a few but I was under no illusion that I'd make money out of the process. I did it for the fun and sense of accomplishment (and to have a good tool!).

Heck, you already have the two saws. My vote is to go for it!

Bill
Im not looking to get into restoring old saws for profit but if it worked out better for me to switch gears, I know I can get my money back out of these saws with a little fixin up. If I just restored them back to original my total investment would be about $275. I think I could get that back easily. Yeah Id lose my time but at this point it would just be about recouping my funds.

I guess at this point, Im going to move forward with the restoring. Thats happening regardless of what I decide. I guess when it comes time to do something with all the stock parts that I didnt intend to use, Ill make a decision. Ill let you all know what I decide. Thanks for all the replies!!:thumbsup:
 

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I would go with a cabinet saw anyday of the week. Newbor good condition used. Look I love my SawStop but I owned both the Grizzly 1023 and the Shopfox sister saw. They were both good saws and i would take those over the dual contractor type saws.

Thing is your not me or anyone else giving you advice. What does your gut say? What makes you happy?
 
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