Woodworking Talk banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a Craftsman 218330 table saw. I wrote about the issue where it would not start up when I had my dado blade installed. It would just whirrrr for about 1 second and then the circuit breaker on the table saw itself would pop.

Four weeks ago a tech came out and tried to adjust it and fix it and ultimately discovered that the bearings on the motor were going bad and thought that was the problem. She ordered a new motor and that came in about 3 days. She was scheduled to come out and replace the motor two weeks after the initial visit. I wanted it done sooner but I was OK with that. Then, I took the day off when she and her helper was scheduled to come and got a call that morning saying that she was sick and could not come. Sears rescheduled two weeks out. Not good. Fought them but ultimately lost.

Then, the next week I got a call again from Sears saying that they needed to postpone her coming out AGAIN. Put my foot down and said NO and for them to reschedule her appts. But instead, they sent two techs who normally work on lawn equipment. Oh crap, I thought. Nice guys and I am very confident they were very competent on lawn equipment but one said that this was his first time ever working on a table saw. I shuddered internally at that. They replaced the motor and they were cleaning up when I went back out to the garage where they were working. "OK" they said "we got the motor in and fired it up and everything looks good".

Uh, not so fast there. I told them the problem came when I put the dado stack in. "Oh" they said. "How long will that take?" Again, inside shudder. Changed the blades out, plugged it in and fired it up. I was really hopeful that the new motor would work and purr like a kitten. Well, NO! Same thing. The two techs just looked at each other and I could tell they were saying to each other "Oh crap, now what?" One decided to call his boss who the tech said was an expert.

Long story short on that is that his boss said it must be the house electrical causing the problem as he had them test the voltage and they saw that it took a lot of volts at start up and that is causing the TS breaker to trip. I just had a dedicated 20-amp line put in just for my table saw. I told them that. I plugged it in on the 15-amp circuit where I used it for almost a year. Same thing. Then they left and told me they were sure it was the house wiring and to get an electrician to come out and look at it.

I called the electrician and while he was on the phone he had me plug it in where we plug the washer in as that is on its own dedicated 20-amp circuit and that has never been touched. Same thing. So the electrician says it is the saw. Now I have each side saying it is the others fault.

So, just as I was closing the door, my neighbor drove by. I will take my TS over there to plug it in to see if I get the same result. I did just that and the TS did the same thing. Whirrrrr stop! So now I am thinking it is the TS again and I now have another call into Sears. Ugh.

I will post to this thread once I finally get a resolution.

Thanks for listening to me rant. - Bob
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
7,222 Posts
I feel your frustration.

I searched to look at the table saw and noticed this thread. This person could get the motor to speed but no power.

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/questions/267113-table-model-351218330-power-torque

The last post mentions that the motor may need to be rewired for 220V.

Is this something you can do for a test? The benefit of 220V is lower amperage. If the dado stack is increasing the start-up amps, it is possible it may start-up better on 220V. If you can get this to start-up on 220V it will help in the next round with Sears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I feel your frustration.

I searched to look at the table saw and noticed this thread. This person could get the motor to speed but no power.

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/questions/267113-table-model-351218330-power-torque

The last post mentions that the motor may need to be rewired for 220V.

Is this something you can do for a test? The benefit of 220V is lower amperage. If the dado stack is increasing the start-up amps, it is possible it may start-up better on 220V. If you can get this to start-up on 220V it will help in the next round with Sears.
Thanks for the link. I would love to convert it to 220v but I don't know if I have the money to a 220v run to my garage. The breaker box is on the other side of the house, of course. I just spent a bunch of money on getting the dedicated 20-amp into my garage.

I don't lose power, or torque, when I use my single thin-kerf blade. Or none that I can discern. Actually when the two dudes were there, we tried that out on the advise of his boss on the phone. I put the regular blade in and crosscut a piece of poplar and a piece of oak. The TS cut just fine and none of us could tell any reduction in power on either piece.

The issue that really bugs me is that it worked just fine on a simple 15-amp circuit for a year with both the single blade and with a full dado-stack. The only issue I had was a quick dimming of the lights that were on that 15-amp circuit for a quick moment when I turned the TS on and that is why I had the dedicated 20-amp installed.
 

·
Hobbyist wood-butcher
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
Do you know if the technicians checked the start capacitor?
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
27,895 Posts
Thanks for the link. I would love to convert it to 220v but I don't know if I have the money to a 220v run to my garage. The breaker box is on the other side of the house, of course. I just spent a bunch of money on getting the dedicated 20-amp into my garage.

I don't lose power, or torque, when I use my single thin-kerf blade. Or none that I can discern. Actually when the two dudes were there, we tried that out on the advise of his boss on the phone. I put the regular blade in and crosscut a piece of poplar and a piece of oak. The TS cut just fine and none of us could tell any reduction in power on either piece.

The issue that really bugs me is that it worked just fine on a simple 15-amp circuit for a year with both the single blade and with a full dado-stack. The only issue I had was a quick dimming of the lights that were on that 15-amp circuit for a quick moment when I turned the TS on and that is why I had the dedicated 20-amp installed.
P3 International P4400 Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor - Amazon.com
Get a "Kill a Watt" meter. and measure the wattage using both the single blade and the dado set.

If they replaced the motor, the start capacitor is also new. :thumbsup:

They last link in the chain is the wiring between the motor , switch and plug inclusive. If it's not the receptacle then it must be the wiring between it and the saw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,606 Posts
" It would just whirrrr for about 1 second and then the circuit breaker on the table saw itself would pop."

First, thanks for the breakup.

I do not understand about a circuit breaker on the saw. Do you mean the one IN the motor or a separate and distinct breaker? Either way, it can have nothing to do with your house electricity.

George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
GeorgeC said:
" It would just whirrrr for about 1 second and then the circuit breaker on the table saw itself would pop."

I do not understand about a circuit breaker on the saw. Do you mean the one IN the motor or a separate and distinct breaker? Either way, it can have nothing to do with your house electricity. George
It is a separate breaker on the start/stop paddle. It is a 15A circuit breaker. I personally think that is bad, or the wiring itself, but the techs thought it is the house wiring but I now know with 99.63% confidence that the problem lies within the table saw itself. But to convince Mr. Sears otherwise, now that is going to be a challenge I suspect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
woodnthings said:
Get a "Kill a Watt" meter. and measure the wattage using both the single blade and the dado set.

If they replaced the motor, the start capacitor is also new. :thumbsup:

They last link in the chain is the wiring between the motor , switch and plug inclusive. If it's not the receptacle then it must be the wiring between it and the saw.
I might order that kill a watt gizmo. For $18 bucks, it might be fun for a bunch of things including my beeping table saw issue. Thanks - Bob
 

·
Half a bubble off.. {Θ¿Θ}
Joined
·
548 Posts
Bob.. You said it was fine on a 15 amp but the new 20A presents an issue. Do you still have the 15A outlet or was it replaced by the 20A?
If the 15A is still active.. try it again with the dado head..
Double check the wiring in the new receptacle. Hot is the smaller slot, neutral is the longer slot & ground is the third round hole.
You should have NO voltage between the larger slot and the ground.
You should have 120 +/- between the small slot and both of the others.
I almost suspect you have a hot/neutral reversed somewhere.
If you go chasing wires ...
Black is hot
White is Neutral
Bare or green is ground

Be careful & good luck
..Jon..
 

·
Wood Jedi
Joined
·
190 Posts
Here's another pointer. Are you plugging the saw power cord directly into the wall outlet? Or are you using an extension cord? If youre using an ex. cord, what guage and how long is it? When possible, ALWAYS, plug bigger tools directly into the wall outlet. If you have to use an ex. cord, make sure its not too long and big enough guage. 12 guage, 25ft is hefty enough to not lose power, but not overkill either for a good saw.

Use to have this trouble with guys bringing in motors to the electric motor repair shop all the time. Especially with air compressors. Theyd say, "Motors shot! I plug it in, it runs for a minute then trips my breaker" We'd plug them in, test run them, put a load on the and theyd work just fine. Now start asking...
Me...Were you using an extension cord?
Them...Yes
Me...How long was it?
Them...Ohhh proly a 50 footer..was one of the orange ones. Think it was a 14 guage, maybe 16, I cant remember.
Me...Get rid of the ex. cord and use a longer hose, or get a shorter, bigger guage ex. cord. That should solve the problem...

And 99% of the time..yes, that was the problem. They were just restricting the power to the tool with the light guage cord. Might not be your problem, but thought Id mention it. :)
 

·
Hobbyist wood-butcher
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
It is a separate breaker on the start/stop paddle. It is a 15A circuit breaker. I personally think that is bad, or the wiring itself, but the techs thought it is the house wiring but I now know with 99.63% confidence that the problem lies within the table saw itself. But to convince Mr. Sears otherwise, now that is going to be a challenge I suspect.
does the motor plug into the back of the paddle switch? If so , try bypassing the paddle switch by unplugging the motor from the paddle switch, and plug it directly into the outlet. If the motor then runs like it should, then chances are that the issue is in the paddle switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I didn't see anything saying that the dado stack turns freely when installed. If you haven't checked that I would try spinning it with the cord unplugged to be sure it isn't dragging somewhere. Also can you reduce the size of the stack and will the saw then run?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
J Thomas said:
Bob.. You said it was fine on a 15 amp but the new 20A presents an issue. Do you still have the 15A outlet or was it replaced by the 20A?
If the 15A is still active.. try it again with the dado head..

Be careful & good luck
..Jon..
Jon, I still have the 15A plug that I used before and I tried that with the same result of start then TS breaker tripping. I did this while the Sears technicians were still present. after the technicians left, I rolled my table saw over to my neighbors to see if it was my wiring but again, the exact same results. I tried it on a variety of outlets in his garage. That is why I am highly convinced it is something in the circuit breaker in my table saw.

Thanks - Bon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
blaineo said:
Here's another pointer. Are you plugging the saw power cord directly into the wall outlet? Or are you using an extension cord? If youre using an ex. cord, what guage and how long is it? When possible, ALWAYS, plug bigger tools directly into the wall outlet. If you have to use an ex. cord, make sure its not too long and big enough guage. 12 guage, 25ft is hefty enough to not lose power, but not overkill either for a good saw.

Use to have this trouble with guys bringing in motors to the electric motor repair shop all the time. Especially with air compressors. Theyd say, "Motors shot! I plug it in, it runs for a minute then trips my breaker" We'd plug them in, test run them, put a load on the and theyd work just fine. Now start asking...
Me...Were you using an extension cord?
Them...Yes
Me...How long was it?
Them...Ohhh proly a 50 footer..was one of the orange ones. Think it was a 14 guage, maybe 16, I cant remember.
Me...Get rid of the ex. cord and use a longer hose, or get a shorter, bigger guage ex. cord. That should solve the problem...

And 99% of the time..yes, that was the problem. They were just restricting the power to the tool with the light guage cord. Might not be your problem, but thought Id mention it. :)
I do use an extension cord but it is a 25ft 12 gauge variety. Never once did I use a smaller cord. Thanks for the idea. - Bov
 

·
Wood Jedi
Joined
·
190 Posts
I do use an extension cord but it is a 25ft 12 gauge variety. Never once did I use a smaller cord. Thanks for the idea. - Bov
Yeah, there should be no problem with that size/length of cord...:)

And now that I reread your original post a bit...I see it's not your breaker in the panel, but the reset on the saw itself. I'll bet that's it. If I was you, I'd bypass that. IMO, there's no need for you to have TWO points of protection like that. It's not a BAD thing, by any means, but, not necessary. Even if you could just bypass it to see if that actually is your problem. If it is, then you can decide to spend the extra money to replace it or just leave it bypassed. Remember, you have the same protection at your circuit breaker in your panel.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top