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While I don't agree with the sentence, Jeff, I'm curious whether you'd be as mad if the girl hadn't committed suicide? We probably wouldn't even have heard of it but I wonder how much outrage is due to the fact the girl killed herself.

Considering there's a strong likelihood the two are unrelated (children sleeping with their teachers often have a lot of other issues going on that are high risk factors for suicide as well) would the relationship be more or less of a problem if she was still alive?

To be clear, I'm not trying to start an argument, just an honest discussion about the nature of our emotions and how things like this play into them.
 

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I've thought quite a bit about this story/case since you posed your question(s) Frank and I can't separate out the fact that I know the girl committed suicide. I would like to think I would be equally outraged if the girl was still alive, but I don't know for sure. The knowledge of her suicide irrevocably ties that fact to the whole issue. Legally, I understand that her death has no bearing on the case, but I can't make that separation emotionally.

I believe you are correct that the girl likely had many risk factors for suicide. I also believe the rape and the resulting issues and treatment of the girl by her peers was a significant factor in her suicide. We will truly never know what thoughts or desperation led to her taking her own life, we can only guess.

Another very disturbing issue in this case is the Judge's statements rationalizing the lenient sentence. He stated that she "seemed older than her chronological age" and was "as much in control of the situation" as the teacher (quoted directly from CNN story). The judge has since backtracked from this statement and is planning on filing an addendum to his statement explaining himself. For those statements alone, the judge should be removed from the bench.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
frankp said:
...Jeff, I'm curious whether you'd be as mad if the girl hadn't committed suicide? We probably wouldn't even have heard of it but I wonder how much outrage is due to the fact the girl killed herself.

Thanks for your response Frank.

I have no way of knowing whether or not the rape was the primary reason or a contributing factor for Cherice's suicide.

That said, the rapist can't be held legally responsible for her death.

Many things about this case infuriate me.

The first is that an authority figure entrusted with the care of a child would take advantage of her naivete for the purpose of manipulating her into a sexual situation.

Secondly, that the prosecutor in the case would agree to a three-year deferred prosecution agreement for the rapist, during which the rapist had contact with minors. This contact was prohibited by the terms of the agreement.

Also, this agreement surely prolonged the case and the emotional stress on Cherice and her family.

At the same time the agreement clearly put other children at risk of exposure to an admitted sex offender.

Next, had the rapist completed his treatment as prescribed in the agreement he would not have been prosecuted for his crime.

It gets worse.

The idiot judge presiding over the case then says Cherise was "as much in control of the situation” as Rambold and was “older than her chronological age.”.

A Statutory rape charge is predicated on chronological age. Whatever impression that the judge had regarding the emotional maturity of the victim has no legal bearing on the case whatsoever.

Whether or not the charges brought against the offender are the equivalent to statutory rape I don't know.

The rapist was charged with 3 counts of " sexual intercourse without consent".

http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/5/45-5-503.htm

I'm assuming that these encounters took place on three different occasions?

If so, then Charice had the opportunity to report what was happening after the first encounter.

I don't understand why she wouldn't.

Whatever her reason may have been she was a vulnerable child.

To add insult to injury the judge suspended all but 31 days of a fifteen year sentence and gave the rapist credit for time served.

Sorry for rambling.

The short answer to your question is that I would be no less infuriated if Cherice had not committed suicide.
 
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Rape victim's mother rejects Mont. judge's apology

Thursday, August 29, 2013 Associated Press

The mother of a 14-year-old rape victim said a Montana judge was "covering his butt" after he apologized for saying her daughter was "older than her chronological age," as prosecutors said Thursday that the judge may have erred in giving the rapist only 30 days in prison.

The comments from District Judge G. Todd Baugh in a case involving a teacher raping a student have drawn widespread condemnation from across the country.

The 71-year-old judge attempted to quiet the firestorm with his Wednesday apology, but calls for his resignation resounded during a Thursday rally on the lawn of the Yellowstone County Courthouse.

The victim's mother Auliea Hanlon rejected Baugh's apology because he has continued to stand by his decision to give a relatively light sentence to former Billings Senior High School teacher Stacey Rambold.

"He's just covering his butt. He wouldn't have said anything if people hadn't spoken up," Hanlon told an Associated Press reporter. "He didn't reverse his decision, so it's irrelevant."

Hanlon's daughter, Cherice Moralez, killed herself before Rambold's case came to trial.

Billings Public Schools Superintendent Terry Bouck has described Rambold's actions with Moralez in 2007 as "repugnant." He said the months-long relationship between teacher and student was grossly inappropriate.

A legal review of Monday's sentencing suggests Rambold may have gotten off too easily.

That review determined that if Baugh had applied the proper section of state law, the defendant would have received a minimum of two years in prison, according to a memo sent by Yellowstone County Attorney Scott Twito to the appellate division of the state Attorney General's Office.

Prosecutors originally sought a 20-year sentence with 10 years suspended. Baugh's sentence ordered Rambold to serve 15 years, with all but 31 days suspended and a one day credit for time already served.

The state has 20 days to appeal the sentence. Twito said he's working with the appellate division to decide whether to take that step.

"It will be looked at and reviewed carefully before any action or any decision is made," Twito said.

Baugh has said he does not intend to resign, but "deserved to be chastised" for his comments about the victim.

The judge also said during Monday's sentencing hearing that Moralez had as much control of the situation as Rambold.

He later told reporters that what he said was wrong, irrelevant to the case, demeaning of women and not reflective of his beliefs.

Baugh was first elected to the bench in 1984 and has been re-elected every six years since without an opponent. Originally from Texas, he is the son of legendary NFL quarterback Sammy Baugh of the Washington Redskins.

He said he has not decided whether to run again in 2014 but has no intention of resigning.

Baugh said the sentence was based on Rambold's violation of an earlier deal he made with prosecutors, rather than the original crime. He plans to file a further explanation for the sentence with the court.

"The public doesn't exactly understand how that came about," Baugh said, adding that it's not unusual in his experience for people to disagree with criminal sentences.

Regarding Thursday's rally he said only that the protesters were within their rights to peaceably assemble and air their grievances.

Rally organizer Sheena Rice said protesters will seek to defeat Baugh if he runs again.

The rally packed the courthouse lawn with hundreds of people, many carrying signs such as "Justice for Cherice" and "Baugh Needs to Resign."

Protester Pete Taylor, a 51-year-old head waiter at a local restaurant, sported a t-shirt on which he'd written "14 is 14."

"What (Baugh) did and what he said was so out of step with Billings," Taylor said. "The young girl was not young enough to make decisions for herself."

Joining in the backlash against the judge was Montana's Democratic governor, Steve Bullock, who said Baugh's comments "made me angry." But Bullock added that he has no authority over the judge and any complaints against him would be handled by the state Judicial Standards Commission
 

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Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Tuesday, September 10, 2013

About a million more square miles of ocean are covered in ice in 2013 than in 2012, a whopping 60 percent increase -- and a dramatic deviation from predictions of an "ice-free Arctic in 2013," the Daily Mail noted.

Arctic sea ice averaged 2.35 million square miles in August 2013, as compared to the low point of 1.32 million square miles recorded on Sept. 16, 2012, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. A chart published Sept. 8 by NSIDC shows the dramatic rise this year, putting total ice cover within two standard deviations of the 30-year average.

Noting the year over year surge, one scientist even argued that "global cooling" was here.

"We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped," Anastasios Tsonis of the University of Wisconsin told London's Mail on Sunday.

The surge in Arctic ice is a dramatic change from last year's record-setting lows, which fueled dire predictions of an imminent ice-free summer. A 2007 BBC report said the Arctic could be ice free in 2013 -- a theory NASA still echoes today.

"[An ice-free Arctic is] definitely coming, and coming sooner than we previously expected," Walt Meier, a glaciologist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md, told LiveScience last month. "We're looking at when as opposed to if."

Noting the growth in ice, the Snow and Ice Data Center said that coverage was still well below the 30-year average. And the year over year growth in ice is "largely irrelevant," argued The Guardian, noting that more ice is to be expected after the record low a year ago.

"We should not often expect to observe records in consecutive years. 2012 shattered the previous record low sea ice extent; hence 'regression towards the mean' told us that 2013 would likely have a higher minimum extent," wrote Dana Nuccitelli.

Meanwhile, global surface temperatures have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, according to data from the U.K.'s weather-watching Met Office.

A leaked draft of the next major climate report from the U.N. cites numerous causes to explain the slowdown in warming: greater-than-expected ash from volcanoes, a decline in heat from the sun, more heat being absorbed by the deep oceans, and so on.

Climate skeptics have spent months debating the weather pattern, some citing it as evidence that global warming itself has decelerated or even stopped.

"The absence of any significant change in the global annual average temperature over the past 16 years has become one of the most discussed topics in climate science," wrote David Whitehouse of the Global Warming Policy Foundation in June. "It has certainly focused the debate about the relative importance of greenhouse gas forcing of the climate versus natural variability."
 

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''Militaristic' Napolitano hit with laundry list of demands from liberal UCal groups

Tuesday, September 10, 2013

Janet Napolitano's experience dealing with terror threats while secretary of Homeland Security may come in handy at her new gig as president of the University of California system, where liberal students have already presented her with a list of wacky demands.

A letter endorsed by nearly a dozen student groups includes the phrase: "We demand that you implement the following across the UC system." Those demands include making the system a "sanctuary" for illegal immigrants, barring the use of system funds or resources going to help Immigration and Customs Enforcement (which Napolitano oversaw in her previous job), impose mandatory sensitivity training on campus police and prohibit police from interfering with student demonstrations.

"As people of color, queer, undocumented, womyn (sic), and allies within the UC system, our work is to ensure that the UC is inclusive to our communities and that the UC system lives up to its mission 'to serve as a center of higher learning,'" reads the letter, which was initially published on DreamActivist.org Sunday.

It goes on to cite Napolitano's "specific experience in managing militaristic entities" as reasons why they are "uneasy" about her taking over the system. Napolitano, who oversaw the deportation of 1.6 million illegal aliens during the first term of President Obama, last month became the first woman appointed to head the sprawling system.

The letter was signed or endorsed by dozens of UC student activist groups, including Black Student Unions, Students for Justice in Palestine, American Indian Student Associations, Queer Alliances, Migrants Rights Awareness, Students Empowering Dreams and Students Informing Now.

The groups called on Napolitano, who takes her new office this month, to make the 10-campus, 234,000-student system provide illegal immigrants with special IDs that would allow them to work for the schools. The demand for annual mandatory training for campus police is aimed at teaching them "the rights of undocumented communities to prevent harassment and criminalization."

The student groups also demanded that Napolitano develop courses on "undocumented/immigrant experiences; and hire staff that specializes in undocumented student affairs."

In the letter, the coalition of student groups demands a meeting with Napolitano on Wednesday and pledges to "do our best to cooperate with you in setting this up so all parties can have a productive conversation."

A report issued by Napolitano's predecessor estimated there were 619 undocumented students in the UC system in the 2011-12 academic year. A UC system spokesperson declined to comment on the letter.

Andrew Coffin, director of the Reagan Ranch for the conservative Young America's Foundation, said it is not liberal student groups who need to be wary of Napolitano.

"I think we would find common cause in opposing Janet Napolitano as president of the system, but not for the same reasons," Coffin said. "It isn't undocumented students who ought to be concerned, but rather conservative students.

"As secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, she labeled conservatives as right wing extremists, and did very little to protect our borders," he added. "She's a poor choice, and on that we can agree."
 

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Be Careful. The NSA has declared

that climate skeptics are radicals to be closely monitored.

The fact you are bringing up something that may cast doubt on the official politically correct viewpoint as defined by the WH will cause the NSA to to have to investigate you. At least confiscate your phone and computer.
 

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Discussion Starter #10

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where's my table saw?
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the "education" system has been taken over

The entire system has been taken over by Socialists Marxists and Communists. They won't have to "fire a shot" as the saying goes...
Brains of "mush" are being filled with crap every day by teachers, instructors, professors and administrators who are full of $hit.

Long live the greedy capitalists! :thumbsup: check these out: http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-tyc-inbox&p=capitalist%20philanthropy&type=

I like this one:
http://capitalanthropy.webs.com/

and this one who's world view was changed by success:
http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/conscience_capitalism
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Every American should watch this.

It's the story of a US veteran who struggles to repay a US debt of gratitude in spite of an indifferent and ungrateful government.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365074411/
 

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Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Tuesday, September 10, 2013

About a million more square miles of ocean are covered in ice in 2013 than in 2012, a whopping 60 percent increase -- and a dramatic deviation from predictions of an "ice-free Arctic in 2013," the Daily Mail noted.

Arctic sea ice averaged 2.35 million square miles in August 2013, as compared to the low point of 1.32 million square miles recorded on Sept. 16, 2012, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. A chart published Sept. 8 by NSIDC shows the dramatic rise this year, putting total ice cover within two standard deviations of the 30-year average.

Noting the year over year surge, one scientist even argued that "global cooling" was here.

"We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped," Anastasios Tsonis of the University of Wisconsin told London's Mail on Sunday.

The surge in Arctic ice is a dramatic change from last year's record-setting lows, which fueled dire predictions of an imminent ice-free summer. A 2007 BBC report said the Arctic could be ice free in 2013 -- a theory NASA still echoes today.

"[An ice-free Arctic is] definitely coming, and coming sooner than we previously expected," Walt Meier, a glaciologist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md, told LiveScience last month. "We're looking at when as opposed to if."

Noting the growth in ice, the Snow and Ice Data Center said that coverage was still well below the 30-year average. And the year over year growth in ice is "largely irrelevant," argued The Guardian, noting that more ice is to be expected after the record low a year ago.

"We should not often expect to observe records in consecutive years. 2012 shattered the previous record low sea ice extent; hence 'regression towards the mean' told us that 2013 would likely have a higher minimum extent," wrote Dana Nuccitelli.

Meanwhile, global surface temperatures have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, according to data from the U.K.'s weather-watching Met Office.

A leaked draft of the next major climate report from the U.N. cites numerous causes to explain the slowdown in warming: greater-than-expected ash from volcanoes, a decline in heat from the sun, more heat being absorbed by the deep oceans, and so on.

Climate skeptics have spent months debating the weather pattern, some citing it as evidence that global warming itself has decelerated or even stopped.

"The absence of any significant change in the global annual average temperature over the past 16 years has become one of the most discussed topics in climate science," wrote David Whitehouse of the Global Warming Policy Foundation in June. "It has certainly focused the debate about the relative importance of greenhouse gas forcing of the climate versus natural variability."
Bunk. Trash. Nonsense. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astr...ea_ice_global_cooling_and_other_nonsense.html
 

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Earth's climate is changing constantly. There's probably wide agreement about that. Where I differ from some, is that I find it ridiculous to believe that mankind is the cause.
The climate was changing long before the industrial revolution....in fact, before man ever appeared.
 

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where's my table saw?
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Great!

The guy from Alaska, wants to melt the ice caps...:blink:
Ice fishing anyone? Come on in the waters fine/cold.... :laughing:


come on global warming!!!!
 

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Earth's climate is changing constantly. There's probably wide agreement about that. Where I differ from some, is that I find it ridiculous to believe that mankind is the cause.
The climate was changing long before the industrial revolution....in fact, before man ever appeared.
If we allow our habitat to change too much we'll die whether it was our fault or a natural cycle.

It is a bit silly to think that with as much as we alter the environment with industry and agriculture that there wouldn't be an affect.

But I suppose we live in an age where a former Playboy Bunny gets quoted alongside immunologists about vaccines... everyone's an armchair scientist.
 

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Gene Howe said:
Earth's climate is changing constantly. There's probably wide agreement about that. Where I differ from some, is that I find it ridiculous to believe that mankind is the cause.
The climate was changing long before the industrial revolution....in fact, before man ever appeared.
Help me understand. We can remove human life from the planet with thousands of nukes, but we can't alter climate?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Gilgaron said:
...If we allow our habitat to change too much we'll die whether it was our fault or a natural cycle.

*** If we allow our habitat to change??? How much control do you believe we have over climate change?

***How would a natural cycle be our fault?

*** Without question we do have control over some environmental conditions, but to assume that we contribute to changes in global temperatures enough to prevent them is IMO ludicrous.

*** Do you remember the seventies when we were facing a new ice age?
The politically motivated junk science and environmental extremists of that time predicted that we would have frozen and starved by the 90's.

... It is a bit silly to think that with as much as we alter the environment with industry and agriculture that there wouldn't be an affect.

***Of course there's an effect. What have you given up for "the cause"?

***Do you drive a car? Do you heat your home with fossil fuels? Do you use electricity? Do you eat? Do you defecate and urinate? Do you purchase manufactured goods? How do you dispose of your household solid and liquid wastes? Do you use detergents? Do you..., do you..., do you...?

***How many children do you now have or plan to have?

...But I suppose we live in an age where a former Playboy Bunny gets quoted alongside immunologists about vaccines... everyone's an armchair scientist.

***Indeed we do. And who is to blame for that?

***We live in an age when ignorant "celebrities" are given intellectual credibility by their worshippers simply by virtue of their fame.

***The state media slops the intellectual trough with garbage and the uninformed masses lap it up without question.

***Have you watched TV lately? By and large it's a pretty sad reflection on American society. Worse, it has a major influence on ignorant, societally disinterested and easily manipulated viewers.

*** Our educational institutions have been given over to liberal operatives who fill impressionable childrens heads with propaganda.

***These "educators" preach free thought while quashing any opinion counter to their own agenda.

*** The importance of the family has been trivialized and marginalized.

***Application of the law is subject to the political whims of jurists, politicians and the power and influence (or lack thereof) of the accused.

***Racial politics have severely damaged the conversation about racial issues and any chance we have to have an honest and productive dialog.

***Captains of industry collect huge bonuses while the the taxpayer subsidizes their failure.

I digress. I'm tired. Its all very discouraging.

....
 

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Mark....some people choose to cram their heads in the sand and deny.....and that's their prerogative in a free society...
 
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