Woodworking Talk banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So the previous owner apparently tried to touch up the trim in several places in my living room leaving streaks of finish that didn't absorb. I've had good luck in the past in other rooms sanding the wood down and restaining and then polying them. However the 8 foot trim piece above the window will not behave for me. I've sanded it down numerous times but the toe spots that were dark to begin with that I originally sanded out continue to come back dark each time looking very awkward in my opinion. And now the whole piece seems to be getting blotchier and blotchier which I find very surprising for oak. Now I know that I originally sanded these two dark spots a bit more then the rest of the piece and with a deeper grit for starters which is probably contributing however I've gone over it again and again with 150 grit since.

I have read around and seems as though a few people have mentioned sealing the wood first before restaining but that doesn't seem to be to common with oak.

Should I try sealing after resanding it pair AGAIN it as I do have some shellac on hand!? Or does anyone have any other suggestions.

Thanks in advance
 

Attachments

·
Old School
Joined
·
24,017 Posts



We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions.

On my screen the wood doesn't really look like Oak. It may be though. You may not have sanded it thoroughly, leaving the remains of whatever was present. You could try sanding it out, and using a 50/50 wipe with Seal Coat/denatured alcohol mix, and then top coating.








.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,880 Posts
Stripping a finish by sanding it is usually a bad idea. If the finish needs to be removed it is better to use a methylene chloride type paint and varnish remover. The finish will soak into the wood and if you don't get what is penetrated into the wood then the stain can't absorb it evenly.

The big problem is chemical removers need warm weather and the person doing the work needs good ventilation so winter is a problem. If possible I would put the job off until spring when you can open the house up for cross ventilation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thx

Thanks for the info. I have used chemical removers in the past but haven't had very good luck and the ones that did sort of work seem rather expensive. What gets me on this project is that it's mainly just one board that's giving me grief and mainly just these two spots which were the very reason I decided to redo this trim piece for starters. As I've done several other trim pieces and have good luck where an additional coat on the few light spots solves the issue. Would I be better off applying stripper to the bare wood before staining to help penetrate more?

Well I spent a good hour and a half sanding it all down again tonight and even after sanding the two main trouble spots do seem a bit dark, see pics. I did put a little shellac on them and the grains pulled through pretty strong again at least on one spot.

Question being what grit should I sand with last before applying the shellac to the worrisome spots? And last can someone explain how staining over shellac even works, I mean to me it seems like the stain has no where to penetrate once it's sealed right?!

Also I'm fairly positive the wood is oak as it seems very hard and is awfully grainy.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,880 Posts
Thanks for the info. I have used chemical removers in the past but haven't had very good luck and the ones that did sort of work seem rather expensive. What gets me on this project is that it's mainly just one board that's giving me grief and mainly just these two spots which were the very reason I decided to redo this trim piece for starters. As I've done several other trim pieces and have good luck where an additional coat on the few light spots solves the issue. Would I be better off applying stripper to the bare wood before staining to help penetrate more?

Well I spent a good hour and a half sanding it all down again tonight and even after sanding the two main trouble spots do seem a bit dark, see pics. I did put a little shellac on them and the grains pulled through pretty strong again at least on one spot.

Question being what grit should I sand with last before applying the shellac to the worrisome spots? And last can someone explain how staining over shellac even works, I mean to me it seems like the stain has no where to penetrate once it's sealed right?!

Also I'm fairly positive the wood is oak as it seems very hard and is awfully grainy.
You are correct, the wood is oak.

If you think you have sanded the wood enough try the stain on it. If it didn't take or comes out blotchy then you can always use stripper at that point. The stain wouldn't hurt anything and the remover would take most of the stain off anyway.

I've had pretty good luck with Kleen Strip paint and varnish remover. It's a semi-paste remover that clings to vertical surfaces pretty good. It's important with any remover though to keep the finish wet with the remover until it is ready to clean off.

If you do end up stripping the wood again, after stripping I would sand it with 80 grit paper to begin with on a orbital sander and then use 120 grit. At that time it should be ready to stain. You are correct in that the stain should applied before the shellac. Since we are talking shellac if that is the only finish it should be fine. If you are using it as a sealer for polyurethane, you better use sealcoat. Sealcoat is a dewaxed shellac which will work under polyurethane. The wax content in standard shellac will prevent polyurethane from adhering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Alrighty

Thanks so much for the explanation on the Shellac thing as I kept reading forums were people were talking about staining over Shellac, and I was wondering how that was possible, as I didn't realize there was a 2nd wax free kind like Seal-Coat.

I picked up some Seal-Coat today, should I play it safe and hit the whole trim piece with that prior to staining it again? Do I sand after the Seal Coat before applying the stain?


Also, I have a can of the regular shellac that I used on some other trim pieces I already restained and they look pretty good however it doesn't seem super durable and can scuff easy. Is that normal or did I not do enough coats? I'm planning on use poly on the current stuff I'm redoing.

If I do seal coat before staining do I need to seal coat again after staining and before polying?

THANKS!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
This might sound stupid, and I don't really have any suggestions for you beyond what's been said, but perhaps it'd be easier just to spend a few dollars and replace the piece with a new piece of trim? I can't imagine how many hours you've spent sanding, finishing, sanding, repeat... I usually use shellac, but minwax also makes a pre stain wood conditioner, no idea if it's worth the can it's put in though.


Edit: to answer your question, put on a coat (maybe two) of shellac, sand extremely lightly. It's not the hardest finish, then stain, then if you want to put more shellac on you can. Or just put a coat of poly on top. You can put anything on top of the shellac; oil based or water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
haha I too was starting to think that maybe

I should just replace the darn piece of trim with a new wood but I've never hung trim and was a bit intimidated but if it doesn't pan out this time it's probably the route I will go.

Well I put the sealcoat on this a.m. and right away those darn dark spots "popped out" is this a sign that it's the wood itself and it's hopeless?

I'm going to still try staining once more and see how it goes tho...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,880 Posts
At this point since you have put Sealcoat on the wood, I would scuff sand it with 220 grit sandpaper and put a cherry gel-stain on it. The piece of trim under it is either a different wood or finished in some manner to subdue the grain and a gel-stain will do just that. The piece of trim you are working on needs red on it to blend it with the rest of the woodwork. You may have to purchase different colors of stain and intermix them to achieve a matching color. This is something you can do by trial and error. Since the wood is sealed now if you brush on a color and it isn't right you can just take a dry cloth and wipe it off and start over. Once you allow the gel-stain to dry you can topcoat it with a clear coat.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top