Woodworking Talk banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I bought a craftsman 16 inch back saw months ago. I haven't had much opportunity to use it so far, but I did notice it cut slowly out of the box.

Today, I used it to cut my first tenon for my workbench in laminated 2x8 stock. Ignore the chisel marks. I had to split one of the cheeks because I let the saw drift off the line. I'm still fumbling around and learning technique.



Holy crap that took a long time. I think I spent 4 hours cutting that single tenon. I have 13 more to go. I'm seriously thinking about punting and buying a dado blade for my table saw at this point.

Is the saw at fault? Can I sharpen it and make it cut like butter? Or is this just par for the course with this kind of hand saw?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
I'd try sharpening it: when I bought a Sears dovetail/gent's saw I had to pick through the stack to find one that the plastic blade guard hadn't fallen off of. It may have dulled bumping around with other saws during shipping.
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
27,880 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Maybe a better topic would have been, "how fast can YOU do this with a hand saw?"

I watched that bandsaw video last night. I have a metal cutting bandsaw, but not a woodworking bandsaw. Thus the dado comment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
It certainly doesn't take that long when I try handsaws...and the one I'm using most is my grandpas old miter box saw and his old, dull, sash saw that really only does will rip. Both of those are due for sharpenign which I intent to figure out this week, having acquired the file and saw set I need.

When I am using power tools I cut the shoulders on my table saw and then do the bandsaw as cabinetman suggests for the cheeks. It is pretty fast, although you'll want to practice a few times before going to your real parts. The first few I tried was before I had a nice blade and correct tension and did not produce coplaner tennons. I had to correct them with a chisel, rabbet plane and shoulder plane.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,389 Posts
Yeah, 4 hours on a single tenon is an exercise in futility. I'll be honest, even my dull saws that are due for a sharpening cut faster than that. Are you sure it's a rip tooth? Is it one of those impulse hardened backsaws that you see everywhere now or one that you can sharpen? You might be better off cutting your shoulders and using a chisel to split the tenon out. That pine SHOULD cut fairly quickly. That being said, you may want to use a rip saw with fewer TPI (or PPI depending on what you say) to clear the sawdust and pine sap from the kerf easier. Still shouldn't take 4 hours. Can you post a pic of the saw?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,597 Posts
I bought a craftsman 16 inch back saw months ago. I haven't had much opportunity to use it so far, but I did notice it cut slowly out of the box.

Today, I used it to cut my first tenon for my workbench in laminated 2x8 stock. Ignore the chisel marks. I had to split one of the cheeks because I let the saw drift off the line. I'm still fumbling around and learning technique.



Holy crap that took a long time. I think I spent 4 hours cutting that single tenon. I have 13 more to go. I'm seriously thinking about punting and buying a dado blade for my table saw at this point.

Is the saw at fault? Can I sharpen it and make it cut like butter? Or is this just par for the course with this kind of hand saw?
I could cut it faster than that with just a hack saw blade, or maybe even a steak knife.

Something is terribly wrong with your saw.

How are you holding the wood? A vise or by hand?

George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,529 Posts
There are a couple of things that could be going on here.

1) The saw is dull. This one IS going on. The set may also be bad, but that's impossible to tell without looking at it. Get a saw file, clamp the blade between two pieces of 1x2, and sharpen it. It's easy, and shouldn't take long.

2) Your technique may be slowing you down. I recommend marking all the lines all the way around, then cutting the shorter dimension first. Cut diagonally, starting at one corner, and cutting down the lines until you're at the other corner and just shy of the line marking the shoulder of the tenon. Then flip the board over and saw the same line, but on the other side. Finally, cut out the remaining triangle of wood. That means you're always cutting the least amount of board possible.

4) The saw may just be garbage. In all honesty, I wouldn't buy a craftsman hand saw these days. Maybe a rough-cut jobsite saw, but not a joinery saw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, it's 11 tpi, according to the website.
Definitely not induction hardened. That's why I bought it.
Definitely a rip cut profile.

I'll sharpen it tonight and have a go. I've been watching Paul Sellers' saw sharpening videos to refresh my memory. His saws definitely seem to cut faster than mine, so hopefully it's just extremely dull.
 

·
amateur
Joined
·
235 Posts
You could cut the shoulders on the table saw using a cross cut sled and/or a good miter gauge, and follow up with the tenon saw for the faces.

Beyond sharpness of the saw that you have, is there a suitable set of the teeth? Perhaps there is too little set.

Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I sharpened the saw. Took maybe 30 minutes to sharpen, and maybe an hour to cut the tenon. Would a better saw just have a different tooth pattern? Or is the metal and ability to hold an edge the issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,389 Posts
There are too many variables not answered at this point. We need a pic of the saw. As George asked, how are you holding he workpiece? Are you sure this isn't a crosscut? What's your process for sawing the tenon?

As said, even with a dull crosscut saw it shouldn't take an hour in pine. Layout takes the longest but sawing should only be a minute or two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well, I did link to the product in the first post. That page includes a photo and details. I'd be happy to provide a photo of the tooth pattern a little later when I have a minute though.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top