Another homemade bandsaw mill
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12 inches will allow you to quartersaw a 24" diameter log using only the mill. Good change.
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So today I did not get much done other than picking up my engine and check the tracking with a couple of nylon straps. I also placed the engine on a workmate to get some idea where I may want to mount it.
Now the plan is for 4,000 to 4,500 bfm. So tomorrow I'll look around and see what I have for pulleys that can be used for this project. Now, I do have an 11-inch that I was planning as the main driver on the wheel shaft and I know I need to turn the wheels at around 460 rpm. I will need to check the engine rpm so I can work in the range where the horse power and torque is. Off the top of head I think it maybe at 3,400 rpm. I left the engine manual in the barn so I doubt I'll be going back out tonight. I may need to install a secondary shaft in order to keep the engine as close to center as I can. I want all of my engine controls facing the operator (Me).
So here are a few pictures of the mill in its current state. You'll notice that the cross member has been flipped 180 degrees. Now it will be capable of some deep cuts.
Ryan, yes there are other colors then machine gray. I want this to be bright and attractive. I am considering red, green, blue or even orange. I'll mix the color with white on the wheels and maybe black on some of the controls. Oh, the new engine is black.
Paul
Now the plan is for 4,000 to 4,500 bfm. So tomorrow I'll look around and see what I have for pulleys that can be used for this project. Now, I do have an 11-inch that I was planning as the main driver on the wheel shaft and I know I need to turn the wheels at around 460 rpm. I will need to check the engine rpm so I can work in the range where the horse power and torque is. Off the top of head I think it maybe at 3,400 rpm. I left the engine manual in the barn so I doubt I'll be going back out tonight. I may need to install a secondary shaft in order to keep the engine as close to center as I can. I want all of my engine controls facing the operator (Me).
So here are a few pictures of the mill in its current state. You'll notice that the cross member has been flipped 180 degrees. Now it will be capable of some deep cuts.
Ryan, yes there are other colors then machine gray. I want this to be bright and attractive. I am considering red, green, blue or even orange. I'll mix the color with white on the wheels and maybe black on some of the controls. Oh, the new engine is black.
Paul
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few things to consider
I am going to try to give you heads up on a couple of things, you'll probably figure out on your own but hopefully I'll save you some unnecessary fabrication.
first off the carriage looks much better, but I think you are going about it the wrong way, you are more concerned about engine placement as far as being centered, your concern should be clearance, you got 12 inches now, but if that belt cuts at an angle, it will be in the way and limit your capacity, the HF mill is like that and that is part of the reason it can only cut 4" deep.
either a 3rd idler pulley could help with that or mount the engine directly above the drive wheel for maximum clearance. well what about the center of gravity? that is why you should consider a 2 cable lift mechanism, I cant see exactly what you have done so far and it is kind of hard to word this, a drawing would help, it looks like your cable runs in a U shape, probably fixed at one end and connected to the winch at the other, no mater how hard you try to balance it you wont get it right, for example you may be in balace dry weight but by the time you fill up the gas tank and the water tank, it may be out of balance, in theory one wire works in practice it may differ, your best bet is to run those wires in a W patern with the pulleys at the bottom top sides fixed winch in the middle, something along these lines, this way both wires will lift an lower exactly the same regardless weather your carriage is balanced between the uprights or not, this gives you the flexiblity to mount the engine directly above the drive wheel, closer to the operator for easier control, maximum clearance or whatever else you want to do,
quit thinking about colors and switch to functionality, you wont save any money building your own ( you probably figured that one ) at least build something I can be jealous of and kick myself for not taking the time to build one.
not sure, still haven't unboxed mine but I saw some pics, I think even the cheapo HF mill has an independent cable system, that should be your next consideration and than you can mount things where it is most convenient, easy to operate, maximum cut depth and width for what it is etc, it will go up and down a lot smoother than the one cable system, no mater how much you try to balance it or how much cut capacity you sacrifice, it will save you a lot of trips back to the drawing board too.
I am going to try to give you heads up on a couple of things, you'll probably figure out on your own but hopefully I'll save you some unnecessary fabrication.
first off the carriage looks much better, but I think you are going about it the wrong way, you are more concerned about engine placement as far as being centered, your concern should be clearance, you got 12 inches now, but if that belt cuts at an angle, it will be in the way and limit your capacity, the HF mill is like that and that is part of the reason it can only cut 4" deep.
either a 3rd idler pulley could help with that or mount the engine directly above the drive wheel for maximum clearance. well what about the center of gravity? that is why you should consider a 2 cable lift mechanism, I cant see exactly what you have done so far and it is kind of hard to word this, a drawing would help, it looks like your cable runs in a U shape, probably fixed at one end and connected to the winch at the other, no mater how hard you try to balance it you wont get it right, for example you may be in balace dry weight but by the time you fill up the gas tank and the water tank, it may be out of balance, in theory one wire works in practice it may differ, your best bet is to run those wires in a W patern with the pulleys at the bottom top sides fixed winch in the middle, something along these lines, this way both wires will lift an lower exactly the same regardless weather your carriage is balanced between the uprights or not, this gives you the flexiblity to mount the engine directly above the drive wheel, closer to the operator for easier control, maximum clearance or whatever else you want to do,
quit thinking about colors and switch to functionality, you wont save any money building your own ( you probably figured that one ) at least build something I can be jealous of and kick myself for not taking the time to build one.
not sure, still haven't unboxed mine but I saw some pics, I think even the cheapo HF mill has an independent cable system, that should be your next consideration and than you can mount things where it is most convenient, easy to operate, maximum cut depth and width for what it is etc, it will go up and down a lot smoother than the one cable system, no mater how much you try to balance it or how much cut capacity you sacrifice, it will save you a lot of trips back to the drawing board too.
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First off, thanks for the input. It is good to get ideas from others. Now, I am going to disagree with the single cable not being able to lift equally on both sides. I may be wrong, but I think I am going to continue with the direction I am currently going. I have seen a number of them on the internet that seem to be doing the job. Now I may add a pulley to the top center its not a big deal. I'm not sure that this will change anything. Yes, right now I have a "u" configuration on the cable. If I add one to the center I'll end out with a "W".
I don't think I am worrying too much about the color, but it is something I want to address at some point. To me it is all part of the building process. I did that when I restored my Mustang.
As for motor location, I do expect that the engine will be more to the drive side than the center. I was not worried about it being located in the center of cross member, but rather more on center to keep it for being too heavy front to rear or tippy. Hope that statement makes sense. As for the belt I don't feel that the belt will interfere with the cut. I will be installing an idler that will also act as a clutch and will push on the belt rather then pull. I have noticed a number of builds that pull on the belt and allow for less belt contact on the drive pulley this will increase the potential for slippage.
As far as cost goes I think that building your own is much cheaper. I don't count the time since I am retired and that plus it is for me, is the reason I am building this mill. As for cost I doubt that the cost will hit the $1,000 mark. The gain is, I get a larger engine, more capacity if I need or want it, additional clearance for cuts (thanks to you guys) and the satisfaction of making my own.
Paul
I don't think I am worrying too much about the color, but it is something I want to address at some point. To me it is all part of the building process. I did that when I restored my Mustang.
As for motor location, I do expect that the engine will be more to the drive side than the center. I was not worried about it being located in the center of cross member, but rather more on center to keep it for being too heavy front to rear or tippy. Hope that statement makes sense. As for the belt I don't feel that the belt will interfere with the cut. I will be installing an idler that will also act as a clutch and will push on the belt rather then pull. I have noticed a number of builds that pull on the belt and allow for less belt contact on the drive pulley this will increase the potential for slippage.
As far as cost goes I think that building your own is much cheaper. I don't count the time since I am retired and that plus it is for me, is the reason I am building this mill. As for cost I doubt that the cost will hit the $1,000 mark. The gain is, I get a larger engine, more capacity if I need or want it, additional clearance for cuts (thanks to you guys) and the satisfaction of making my own.
Paul
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Forgot to mention that I did some machine work for the mill today. Looking through my old pulleys I found a few that could work only they needed to be bored. Both pulleys are cast iron I will be using a 3 inch on the engine. The crank shaft is 1 inch in diameter and the pulley was 3/4 so I bored it to 1 inch and broached for a new key. The driven shaft is 1.250 and the pulley hub was 1-inch so I am now boring and then I'll do a 1/4 inch keyway. Once I have these two done I can get a better visual on engine location. Who knows maybe more pictures.
Paul
Paul
a pulley in the middle wont make any difference at all, the winch should go there instead, in theory the one cable will work, and if it is well balanced so it will in practice but it can bind, carriage not traveling parallel, its simple geometry but I wont insist.
I see you are retired I know better than to insist on a point with old timers, and I do agree that one plus to DIY is making it your own, front to back balance is something I did not consider, good point, anyways its your mill at the end of the day as long as you are happy with it who cares.
just keep an open mind, some of the things I mentioned are simple, wont cost you any extra if it work for you or not that is another story. look at some of the pics of the hf mill the way they placed the engine and drive belt considerably limits the cut depth, I understand your build will employ a pulley smaller than the drive wheel, and that will help, and again I can only see so much in pictures, it is different when you mock it up and inspect it in person.
last thing I will point out, as far as I can see what you are building, the 11-12 inches you now have as max depth clearance wont be the final, the route you are taking your max depth will be the height difference between your blade and the drive belt, measured at the drive side blade guard ( hope I word it right ). I understand the blade is on a different plan as the drive belt, but as you cut the belt will follow as you go along the log bed, depending on the pulley size you end up with, engine placement, I cant predict it but it will be shorter than 11 inches, you could end up back to the original 5 which will render the flip pointless,
maybe you end up somewhere in between and you are happy with it,
tailors measure twice cut once, take a minute and look at this, do what makes you happy
so you are not going to be using a centrifugal clutch but rather a lever/pulley clutch ( that is what I was implying as a third pulley for more clearance of the drive belt ), I was debating installing an idler on the hf to accomplish a similar effect, mod the guards to get more clearance
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my .02$
I don't have a dog in this hunt so here goes. I'd make the motor belt and idler as close to one end as practical with the idler lever really handy and with an overcenter arrangement, keeping the belt away from the horizontal member, which reduces the capacity.
The cable lift and pulley system is the lowest cost part of the whole unit, so use what ever arrangement makes it work best. Cable is cheap as are the pulleys. Harbor Freight has both 12 V and 110 volt winches on the cheap as low as $50.00 for a 2500 lb. lift. I have both and they work fine. They also have the hand crank versions for around $25.00. http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hand-winch-65688.html
One thing I noticed is that this unit is a " 2 poster" with a trianglulated base rather than a 4 poster rolling carriage. I always thought the wider base would give more stability and that would be my preference. I'll be interested to see how it works. again , just my .02$
I don't have a dog in this hunt so here goes. I'd make the motor belt and idler as close to one end as practical with the idler lever really handy and with an overcenter arrangement, keeping the belt away from the horizontal member, which reduces the capacity.
The cable lift and pulley system is the lowest cost part of the whole unit, so use what ever arrangement makes it work best. Cable is cheap as are the pulleys. Harbor Freight has both 12 V and 110 volt winches on the cheap as low as $50.00 for a 2500 lb. lift. I have both and they work fine. They also have the hand crank versions for around $25.00. http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hand-winch-65688.html
One thing I noticed is that this unit is a " 2 poster" with a trianglulated base rather than a 4 poster rolling carriage. I always thought the wider base would give more stability and that would be my preference. I'll be interested to see how it works. again , just my .02$
the HF is a 2 poster also, most WM I noticed they are a cantilever type, I assume this one has the uprights welded to the base rollers, the HF I believe bolts, that kind of concerns me but otherwise if the base is wide enough and the welds solid should be ok
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Yes, I plan on a lever driven clutch. In fact, I am also installing a jack shaft so I can get to the RPM I'm looking for. I have pulleys and pillow blocks laying around so I'll use them. Yesterday I started the layout for the jack shaft and motor. The belts will not be in the cut line. Both will be above the cross member.
I have found that there are a lot of mills constructed with 2 posts. From what I have seen there are more built this way than the 4 post type especially on the smaller mills. They seem to do the job. I did notice that HF is bolted, but they also have some long gussets for added strength. Most of the bolting they do is for shipping, there is no reason that they could not be welded in place once set up.
Soon, I'll be taking my final measurement for the blade length so I can get some ordered. In the mean time I have a lot of work that I can get done. So I'll just keep plugging away.
Paul
I have found that there are a lot of mills constructed with 2 posts. From what I have seen there are more built this way than the 4 post type especially on the smaller mills. They seem to do the job. I did notice that HF is bolted, but they also have some long gussets for added strength. Most of the bolting they do is for shipping, there is no reason that they could not be welded in place once set up.
Soon, I'll be taking my final measurement for the blade length so I can get some ordered. In the mean time I have a lot of work that I can get done. So I'll just keep plugging away.
Paul
sounds like you are on the right track, and yes I have debated putting my own touch on the HF mill, like welding the components solid, we'll see how it looks / holds up once I get it together.
I honestly prefer the centrifugal clutch but I was debating installing an automotive idler pulley and a longer belt and move the drive belt away from the cut in a similar manner, cut back the guards, etc,
when I was debating building one, something like the logosol ( I believe ) from New Zeland with one track on the ground and one 4 ft high was my choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqxqQEkmhcg
this was an interesting Idea, I was considering something similar as far as locking down the log ( screwing at both ends ) so I can turn it easily and raise the log rather than lower the cutting head, this will give you a cut parallel to the center of the trunk and not the taper, well that was my concept and than I chickened out and ordered out of a catalog, unfortunately I am not retired, work a day job and trying to build a house out of pocket, hence the mill, thou I may at some point tweak it a bit, figured a few mods wont take as much time than building from scratch.
the 4 post is more solid but as mentioned a proper design/gussets, tubing size will do as well
I honestly prefer the centrifugal clutch but I was debating installing an automotive idler pulley and a longer belt and move the drive belt away from the cut in a similar manner, cut back the guards, etc,
when I was debating building one, something like the logosol ( I believe ) from New Zeland with one track on the ground and one 4 ft high was my choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqxqQEkmhcg
this was an interesting Idea, I was considering something similar as far as locking down the log ( screwing at both ends ) so I can turn it easily and raise the log rather than lower the cutting head, this will give you a cut parallel to the center of the trunk and not the taper, well that was my concept and than I chickened out and ordered out of a catalog, unfortunately I am not retired, work a day job and trying to build a house out of pocket, hence the mill, thou I may at some point tweak it a bit, figured a few mods wont take as much time than building from scratch.
the 4 post is more solid but as mentioned a proper design/gussets, tubing size will do as well
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Ok, I worked on the jack shaft and engine mount. I still need to do some finish welding, which I plan on doing once I dismantle. I still need to place and additional brace under the base of the motor stand. Here are a few more pictures.
Paul
Paul
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That is really looking good, it is for sure well built.
That mill won't work unless the tracks are exactly parallel on the same plane, if they aren't he is going to have a twisted board. That is way way more trouble than I would be willing to go through to get some lumber.
I haven't paid much attention to him cutting, chainsaw mills bother me in principal, at some point I considered building a mill and I had a similar concept about bolting the log to something like those carjacks, my idea was to have a square tubing fitting at on end and a round one at the other, thought it would be easier to turn the log and keep it square while at the same time cutting parallel to the center of the log where a traditional bed and dogs normally cut parallel to the taper , also was considering raising the log to the blade rather than lowering the cutting head for a subsequent cut.
that video was the closest representation of a different concept of securing the log I found interesting versus a traditional log bed, as for the rest of his build I don't know? seems like a lot extra stuff to a chainsaw mill.
I saw on some woodmisers they have a hydraulic cyl to raise up the narrower end of the log so the track is parallel with its center, I thought it would be cool to be able to turn the log as in a lathe, I also saw a such woodmiser attachement
as for the OPs progress, I see what you are doing now, I assumed you're going to run a centrifugal clutch in a similar manner as the HF mill, I like the simplicity of the HF setup but it cuts into the mills clearance considerably.
keep us posted, I still second guess myself for not building one, than again mine is still in the crate have lifted the lid briefly and looked at it, got some recycled fence posts, I planned on building a some kind of a platform for it haven't even started, I would never have found the time to do this and I need to start cutting asap, maybe when I retire (lol )I'll be happy for now if I tweek it a bit before I take it in the woods
that video was the closest representation of a different concept of securing the log I found interesting versus a traditional log bed, as for the rest of his build I don't know? seems like a lot extra stuff to a chainsaw mill.
I saw on some woodmisers they have a hydraulic cyl to raise up the narrower end of the log so the track is parallel with its center, I thought it would be cool to be able to turn the log as in a lathe, I also saw a such woodmiser attachement
as for the OPs progress, I see what you are doing now, I assumed you're going to run a centrifugal clutch in a similar manner as the HF mill, I like the simplicity of the HF setup but it cuts into the mills clearance considerably.
keep us posted, I still second guess myself for not building one, than again mine is still in the crate have lifted the lid briefly and looked at it, got some recycled fence posts, I planned on building a some kind of a platform for it haven't even started, I would never have found the time to do this and I need to start cutting asap, maybe when I retire (lol )I'll be happy for now if I tweek it a bit before I take it in the woods
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